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Staffy behaviour and walk problem.any advice appreciated.

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SamR

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Hello everyone, I am new to the group and hope to ask your advice on problem my wife and I have regarding our staffy. We have an 11 month old Staffordshire bull terrier; we purchased him when he was 8 weeks old. He has a tendency to want to be close around myself or my wife, when we walk anywhere in the house he is always next to our legs.

As a puppy he tried to a lot to climb on a seat and lie behind our backs with his head tucked in behind us and go asleep, we quickly discouraged this behaviour.

But the main issue is when we try to take him for a walk, he in uncontrollable to even be able to get the lead on him, he darts around and jumps up, we wait till he calms down, sometimes he doesn’t so we abandon the walk.

Once the lead is on he sometimes wont always step out of the door, the times he does he tries to place his paw up over the lead and sits there, then pulling back to the door to go back in. When we do eventually go for a walk he is like a fish on a line, it’s getting embarrassing now as residents on the walk route see his behaviour.

We have had three other Staffordshire bull terriers from puppies over the years, sadly they all died with old age related illnesses, they were all loved and well behaved and we had no behavioural issues like we have with our current Staffy. We are now at a point we don’t know what else to do. Any help much appreciated.
 
Assuming there is nothing he is afraid of outside, two things come to mind. First it might be simple discomfort. If you use the lead in a collar, can you try a harness? If you already use a harness, have you considered a different style? Some harnesses, particularly the kind with a strap across the chest (like the shape H rather than the shape V or Y) restrict movemmovement. Also watch for rubbing or pinching around the 'armpits'.

If you think it's not that, you might need to train him to the lead. Start with a ribbon or piece of string attached to his harness (I always prefer a harness on a dog, it reduces the risk of damage to the throat or neck) and just let him wander round the house with it. Progress to something heavier and then to a lead, preferably with the handle cut off so he can't snag it. Work towards walking round the house and garden with him on lead and then short walks outside. Praise and reward calm walking with nice treats. It might take some time; and I realise you will still have the problem of walking him meantime. If there is any way you could avoid that (so he doesn't get to practice his unwanted behaviour) you should try - for example can you take him in a car to places he is safe to be off lead?
 
He seems to have some troubling behaviour going on that is nothing to do with his lead walking. You say he used to try to sleep behind you and that you "discouraged that". Then you describe him following you around the house close to your legs all the time. These two behaviours seem a little worrying. Is he a nervous dog? What happened in his first few weeks with you from 8 weeks to 12 weeks? Did he get out and about seeing the world or was there some reason for him to be confined to the house (after vaccination was complete)?

His indoor and outdoor behaviour could all be tied in with some sort of anxiety state. Do you recognise this description of his emotional state? In other words does he seem an anxious dog? Anxiety can cause manic type behaviour where dogs try to escape from any restraint and try to seek comfort at other times.
 
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Many thanks both to your replies and have been very helpful. We will try the lead train example JoanneF and possibly take him out in the car (that if we can get him in the car) to other places, but not yet able to take him off the lead, we dont feel he would return back and may dart off. We have a long 20m lead we are thinking of trying that would allow him to walk away from us, to build confidence in his surroundings,hopefully to explore his area while learning to return on call back. My wife tells me he has the H type harness. we also have a padded one we felt maybe more comfortable.

gypsysmum2, your description also resonates very much, it maybe helpful if I expand more.

When we picked him up on the day we bought him, my wife sat in the back of the car with our daughter who was about 6 then. He moved off my wife's knees and began going behind her back, this behaviour as described in my initial post. 

Since 8 weeks we had treated him and began training him as we did with out other dogs, the usual sit, stay, leave, drop,and heel on the rare walks at my side, using treats for good behaviour, but for some reason hes not either understanding or something is stopping him? There had been a few occasion when we tell him to leave the room to go into his box be actually growled under his breath, I had deepened my voice for him to go to his box he then went. I was taken aback and felt scared a little as not had this with my other dogs.  

We dont know how he had been kept prior to picking him up on 8 weeks, when we initially viewed the staffy puppies there were about a litter of 6 in a cage, we saw him and chose him. He wasn't run to the litter, but a couple of things the owner said that we were not sure about, she said the puppies would all sometime run upstairs together? and the other thing she said was she would take puppies out of the cage and let them sit on her while watching tv in the evening, especially the one we picked. I think this maybe where the security may have been developed? time away from the mother? not sure I am not a breeder, but trying to link his behaviour possibly to the first 8 weeks.

Anxiety seems to make sense, there are days he just wont go on the lead, completely crazy, freezing, like a fish then pulling back home, but the next day he will go on the lead and walk ok, but this was rare, when this happened my wife was overjoyed and though his behaviour had settled, but the next day back to being whats seems to be anxious behaviour.

The other thing is when he eats he will go to his bowl, pick up some dry food and return to us, stand at our feet then eat it, hes always done this. We found when we stand next to his bowl he will then stand there and eat his food, all the time he keeps looking up at us while placing his head back down for more food. He is at his normal weight and drinks fine.

One thought just popped into my head about drinking and dont know if this is also relevant, he dribbles a lot, he does have loose gums slightly and where we thought had been the factor or teething, but at 11 months we felt teething would be over by now and maybe his gums will tighten up as he grows. especially when he stops drinking he walks away with a lot of water and saliva still dropping from his mouth. which means always cleaning up behind him.I think with loose gums its maybe understandable. Anyway I have possibly gone off topic a little there. but mentioned it in case relevant,  otherwise he is a lovable dog and great with my 7 year old daughter.

We wondered was it us? as you hear dogs have people problems, but we have treated him almost the same way since we got him as we have with all our other other dogs who became very well behaved and loved their walks,

I apologise if there is a lot here, but hope my get an idea from this information. My long post I feel represents our frustration to get help. Thanks both again for your time and help advice always appreciated..
 
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By the way, this is Sam our staffy... 

WP_20170723_16_56_59_Pro.jpg
 
It definitely sounds like Gipsysmum is right and it's not going to be a quick fix like I suggested. Gipsysmum may have more thoughts based on the additional information.  He's a lovely looking boy though!
 
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I'd suggest a consult with a credentialed behaviorist, rather than a trainer.
These range from a certified Canine Consultant [via the IAABC] thru either CAAB, the U-S title, or a CCAB, the identical credential under a U-K title, to a veterinary behaviorist.

I definitely agree that it sounds as tho he has a chronic anxiety issue, & changing his behavior successfully might require medication - an anti-anxiety drug, if that's an underlying issue, could help, but only a vet is qualified to prescribe meds; most behaviorists have a veterinary partner who will review their case notes, examine the dog, & determine if meds are a logical treatment, & if so, what medication is best to help this particular dog.

A vet-behaviorist is a DVM who after achieving a doctorate in Vet-med, goes on to get Board certification as a specialist in behavior - just like a vet-dermatologist, vet-cardiologist, or any other Board-certified specialties.

Until U find a behaviorist, using OTC calmatives cannot hurt him, & could make day-to-day living easier.   They aren't expensive,  are very safe, & do not interact with foods or meds; they also have no dosage risks, U can give them [or use them, in the case of pressure-wraps] as needed, just following directions.

 - D.A.P., Dog-Appeasing Pheromone or Adaptil in a pump-spray
 - BACH Rescue Remedy,
4 to 6 drops on a single tidbit given by mouth [or 2 to 3 drops on a gloved finger, gently rubbed into the underside of each ear]
 - a very-snug stretchy T-shirt,
or the commercial product, an Anxiety-Wrap, or a body-wrap using Ace bandages as done by T-Touch practitioners
- botanical lavender-water, also in a pump-spray

Those are all very safe; DAP lasts approx 90-mins, but can be refreshed anytime, it goes on OBJECTS, not on or in the dog.
Rescue-Remedy lasts about 2-hours if the dog is continually stressed - it's best to give the dog a break by exiting stressful situations, or at least by reducing the intensity of the stress... give more distance, lower the volume of sound, turn his back on the visible threat, etc. // . Neither of these needs habituation; just open & use them, as directed.

The tactile comfort of a pressure-wrap & the scent of lavender as a relax cue both need to be habituated before they can be used under stressful circs.
U associate them with calm, safe, happy moments, such as the hour or so before bed, when things are quiet, the children are abed, U are watching TV or reading, etc. //  Put the stretchy 10% Lycra T-shirt on the dog, sit & relax - let him do likewise.  Spritz a cotton-ball with lavender water, & set it on a saucer above the TV, where the rising warm air currents will waft it around the room.
3 to 5 evenings of wearing the pressure-garment & the odor of lavender, anything from 20-minutes to an hour each time, & U can use them the next time he goes for a walk; PUT ThE PRESSURE WRAP ON & spritz the lavender at least 10-minutes, preferably 15-minutes, B4 he goes out the door; leave the leash trail from the harness, so U don't chase him to get it on, but just walk over to the leash to pick it up.

Make his walks brief & as low-stress as possible - if U see or hear something that U know bothers him, turn side or turn around, give him more distance. Multiple short walks, 10-mins or less, are better than 30-minutes 3 times daily. ;)  

What city is nearby? - Perhaps we can recommend a vet-behaviorist or CCAB in the area.
 - terry

Terry Pride, certified Vet's Assistant, member Truly Dog-Friendly
 
 
@SamR, the canine behaviour industry in the U.K. is unregulated, which means that anyone can set themselves up as a pet behaviourist. However the two organisations that we recommend in the U.K., because they require their members to meet stringent standards, are the APBC and COAPE. If your dog is insured, you may be covered. 
 
 @JoanneF - 

surely U do not think that a veterinary behaviorist is "setting themselves up" as anything?

I am not saying COAPE / APBC members lack credentials; I am, tho, expressly listing the most-highly qualified professionals I know of, & surely a vet who has been Board-certified in behavior as a post-Doctorate specialty is qualified - as are CCABs, Certified Clinical Animal Behaviorists.

about CCAB accreditation -
https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/general/findabehaviourist

a link to find CCABs in the U-K -
http://www.asab.org/ccab/
____________________________________________________

veterinary behaviorists in the USA -
http://www.dacvb.org/about/member-directory/

CAABs [certified Applied Animal Behaviorists] in the U-S -
http://www.dacvb.org/about/member-directory/

______________________________________________________

the IAABC is a global organization; to find a certified Canine consultant -
https://iaabc.org/consultants

Look under 'Certified Membership' to find their certification process -
https://iaabc.org/join
 
No, that is expressly not what I am saying. What I am saying is that my 90 year old neighbour who has never owned a dog could, should she choose, set herself up as a canine behaviourist. Further; it might be different in the US but in the UK our vets normally are medical rather than behavioural experts. While finding someone qualified in both disciplines might be desirable they are rarer than hens' teeth. 37 in the UK according to your link.
 
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That's quite true - Board-certification in any veterinary specialty is much rarer than "GP" or General Practice small-animal vets, & small-animal vets who treat pets are more common than large-animal vets who treat livestock, & exotic-animal vets are also not common. :)

Vet-dermatologists are vanishingly rare in some parts of the U-S [Idaho]  & disturbingly sorta "common" in others [Tidewater Va, the area where i lived, has very-high humidity & concurrent high spore levels of mold, mildew, & other airborne & contact allergens - a "skin vet" can make a fortune there, as dogs exhibit all their allergenic reactions as skin symptoms, whether they are inhaled, contact, or ingested].

The U-K is a heckuva lot smaller in area than the U-S; however, if travel is a serious complication, many veterinary behaviorists in the U-S will do remote consults, using the pet-owner's vet as their locum to do the hands-on stuff, video or a live link to see the dog's presenting behavior, & the owner does the day-to-day care while working on changing the problem behavior.
The vet-behaviorist sends a written plan explaining how they intend to address the issue, with a specific goal for this time frame, & an outline of how the re-training is to be done.  The local vet sees the dog to ensure there are no issues such as chronic pain, an underlying medical condition [hypothyroid, arthritic joints, soft-tissue injury, etc], & also to make sure there are no side effects from any prescribed meds.

I think the "37" that U refer to are actually CCABs, not vet-behaviorists; I didn't find a certifying Board for vets who'd like to specialize in behavior in the UK.
In any case, CAABs in the U-S are similarly scarce, & like vet-behaviorists will do remote consults to save the hassle of long-distance travel, again by collaborating with the owner's vet & the owner, and seeing video or live action of the dog's presenting behavior.
I'd be very surprised if a CCAB in the U-K was not willing to do something similar, given that distance is surely a common problem for owners?

As for CCCs, via their "find a consultant" page, there are 3 within 50-miles of London, & 3 more within 200-miles of London -
QUOTE,
 

Consultants within 50 miles of you


marker_greenA.png



Susan Gammage



hdc behaviour


Canine behaviourist



31 miles
Certified


marker_greenB.png



Georgina Lees-Smith BSc Hons Phys, CDBC



Applied Behaviour Analysis


Currently studying towards an advanced post graduate degree in ABA. Specialisms include physiology and neuroscience (from a medical background). I have a kind, hands off approach to the treatment of target behaviour. I conduct thoroughgoing functional assessments of behaviour to determine causes (before treatment) & use a data driven approach to behaviour change. I work successfully with a wide range of behaviour presentations and use the least intrusive & most ethical methodology (in accordance with BACB guidelines). I work with my clients as a team, employing the same techniques with them as I do the animals. Learning should be a positive and rewarding experience for everyone involved.

  •  


38 miles
Certified


marker_greenC.png



Behavioural Consultant, Bio-Detection Training UK



Nina Bondarenko, BA, CABC-SAC


Specialist Behavioural Consultant and Training Coach. Nina also runs the Super Puppy classes in London, UK. She bred & trained Rottweilers for SAR, Schutzhund, TV and Film, Agility, Security, & is an international judge of working and rare dog breeds. Nina has trained animals for zoos & films, both domestic and exotics, and is consulted on horse and bird behaviour. She runs internationl seminars on Behaviour and Cognition in animals, and trains police and other services.
As the founding Director of Canine Partners UK, she developed the Puppy Education System for training assistance dogs, and is now developing the K9 Paramedix Diabetic Alert and Emergency dogs.



46 miles
Certified

Consultants within 200 miles of London


marker_greenD.png



Certified Behaviour Consultant



Dog behaviour and training


Katie works privately with puppies, dogs and other species. She offers consults to the local area, and can travel or Skype/Messenger nationally and internationally. Fully certified, qualified, Katie has 12 years experience and works under veterinary referral.



99 miles
Certified


marker_greenE.png



Lovewalkies



Rachel Trafford CDBC.VSPDT. Dog training and behaviour consultaions


1-2-1 Dog training, Classes for reactivity, Behaviour consultations, Veterinary referrals.



136 miles
Certified


 



Lindsy Murray CHBC CDBC



Equine and Canine Behaviour Consultant
Website


  • Email
  • 07974 694278
    Lindsy has 25 years of experience working with traumatised animals and has studied both equine and canine behavioural science. She provides her clients with a clear understanding of why behaviour problems are occurring and offers guidance and support during the process of addressing and solving these issues. Although there are no quick fixes, there are positive ethical ways to manage and resolve behaviour problems and Lindsy’s aim is to provide her clients with the most effective ways of doing this.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The only name I personally recognize is Nina Bondarenko, she's a fellow trainer that I know & respect from previous virtual meetings over the years - I didn't know that she's an IAABC certified Canine Consultant, but it doesn't surprise me, & certainly she's someone I'd have confidence in, if my own dog had a serious problem behavior.
     - Terry


     
 
forgot to add -
I inserted  "London" as a UK example; the search-box needs a city or state, it gives no nationwide listings of Certified Consultants.
Obv, the OP would insert their own city / County / state & country, to get a local or general-area CCC.

cheers,
 - terry
 
As JoanneF has suggested, I would contact a behaviourist from either COAPE or APBC. I am sure they both have vets on their register. Indeed, one of COAPE's directors is a vet, another a professor so you are in good hands.

In the meantime I would note down all the little things that worry you about him. You have done a good job in you post but I am sure you will remember more. The behaviourist will want to list history right back to birth so any little thing that you can remember will help with a diagnosis.
 
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The 37 i referred to were from the link you posted in your previous reply. So maybe not quite so helpfulafter all. The OP could, of course, do a similar search on the APBC or COAPE websites. Obviously it would be far better to have a behaviourist work directly with you than third hand through a locum vet.

LFL, I'm really not sure why you are so resistant to these; particularly as you are in the USA so don't actually have direct experience of them. Or is it just that you are trying to make some sort of a point?
 
JoAnne, I'm not "resisting" COAPE / APBC.  I've recommended them many times before to UK dog-owners; however, this specific time, i recommended the next rank up because i have a hunch that this dog will need Rx meds - & for no other reason. :)

Behavior modification is a powerful tool, but B-Mod alone when the issue is more than 'behavior' alone but involves intense emotions, such as phobias, long-term conditioned anger, etc, needs some help to be efficient.  Months of tiny incremental gains can be shortened considerably with the right Rx to make B-Mod easier. 

Early-onset anxiety that first manifests in puphood would be a perfect exemplar of such an intense emotion, & from the OP's description, that sounds like part of the problem - a big part, the kind that manifests like an iceberg.   A small bit is visible; the mass of it is completely hidden.

Unless the COAPE / APBC member is co-incidentally a vet, s/he cannot prescribe; CCABs in the UK, just like their CAAB counterparts in the U-S, are very familiar with various meds used toward behavioral ends, & while they can't themselves prescribe, they can suggest meds for a vet's consideration.
CAABs & CCABs spend 4 years in college-level courses, learning about behavior - I do not know whether that's a minimum level of qualification for COAPE / APBC; some of their members meet that criterion, I'm sure.   The last time I checked, associate level [2 years college, not necessarily focused on behavior - biology, etc] was acceptable.

Can we let it go, that U prefer COAPE / APBC, & I'm recommending baccalaureate or doctorate level behaviorists for their greater familiarity with Rx meds?
And please let's not start a new round by suggesting that i "use drugs as a crutch", or similar - meds are crucial in some cases, but no one, including myself, suggests them for every dog who has a problem behavior. I could easily be wrong - but i think this dog's behavior issues have roots outside behavior alone, in part because it started so young.

Do let us know how things progress, @SamR - he's a lovely-looking dog, & he deserves a happy life, just as U deserve to enjoy him as part of that happy life. :)
- terry
 
 
COAPE and APBC behaviourists in the UK will not see any dog unless it is referred by a vet. That vet will be happy that the dog is free of any physical condition that may be contributing to the problem behaviour. If the behaviourist judges, after meeting and assessing the dog, that the dog needs medication then they will convey this opinion to the referring vet and discuss with that vet what is the best way forward. Both of these professionals will have seen the dog in question. It is not appropriate, in any behaviour cases. to do any sort of remote diagnosis or treatment.
 
gypsysmum2 said:
... It is not appropriate, in any behaviour cases. to do any sort of remote diagnosis or treatment.
Click to expand...
then why would DVMs Board-certified in behavior as a specialty, offer such remote consults to dog owners who may live literally many hundreds of miles away, in the U.S.?

The local vet is obv the one doing the hands-on - bloodwork, radiographs, etc, as needed.  //  It wouldn't be done at all if it were considered unethical, for the simple reason that anyone violating professional ethics would be summarily stricken from the register, & her / his license to practice would be revoked.
Losing the right to practice after investing over 8 years of college & post-grad education, plus a professional apprenticeship as a junior in an established practice, is financially devastating - vets rack up many thousands of dollars in college debt, it can easily take a decade or more to repay it all.

Only an utter fool would risk the loss of their license to practice by engaging in any professionally-questionable Dx or Tx.
- terry
 
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I took the liberty of e-mailing Ms Bondarenko - she apprised me of another UK behaviorist organization, the ABTC.
[Full disclosure, Ms Bondarenko is dual registered with both the IAABC as a certified Canine Consultant, & via the ABTC.] 

Unfortunately Nina writes that she is not herself tech-fluent, & lacks a techie housemate to consult; she doesn't offer remote consults, but notes that it would be very handy, as she often gets inquiries that are simply too-far distant.
I post the ABTC info below.



ABTC Register of Accredited Animal Behaviourists - The Animal ...




www.abtcouncil.org.uk/accredited-animal-behaviourists.html
ABTC Register of Accredited Animal Behaviourists. ... dalemclelland1@hotmail.co.uk · www.beingcanine.co.uk. Lisa Tenzin Dolma ... training@mypetgets.co.uk.






ABTC Members by Region - The Animal Behaviour and Training Council




www.abtcouncil.org.uk/index/abtc-members-by-region.html
ABTC Members by Region. ... ABTC Practitioners by Region. To view by location / region, select the white box in the top left of the map ... and then select the ...
 
 
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@SamR -
a very thorough vet-exam before consulting any behaviorist would also be a Good Idea - checking all his joints for pain, checking for normal senses [eyes, ears, no tactile abnormalities, etc], possibly a full blood-panel - not just a cellular count, but liver & kidney enzymes, etc.

Keeping a log for a day or two of the dog's behavior prior to the vet-appt might be helpful - how much he eats / when / what he eats, how often & how much he voids, any usual-for-him quirks & the CONTEXT they appear in [such as his "hide my head" behavior, when does he do that?], & so on.

A written outline of Ur concerns & when they began, such as the "hide my head" first seen on the car-trip from the breeder, would be very helpful to the vet - how old was he when he first actively resisted leaving the house?  3-MO? 6-MO? // Can U think of anything unusual that predated the 1st time he fought the leash?
I really hope U can find a knowledgeable pro who can help - this must be very frustrating for U, & very limiting for the dog. :(

 - terry
 
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