Staffy behaviour and walk problem.any advice appreciated.

[gypsysmum2]

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ABTC Register of Accredited Animal Behaviourists

I think you will find that this is a "register" of like minded people. I know several of the members listed and they are dog trainers. Yes, the ones I know, are very good dog trainers but they are not qualified Pet Behaviour Therapists. If they were they would almost certainly have become members of the APBC or COAPE.

 

[leashedForLife]

Err - because they get paid?

GM2,
they wouldn't get paid for long, if they were violating professional ethics. // They'd be out of the veterinary profession, off the rolls of licensed practitioners, & finding another career - after spending the better part of their youth, on average to 30-YO, either in college [4-years undergrad, 4-years post-grad] or in an apprenticeship to merely become a DVM with an independent license, ready to open a solo practice or a full partnership.

Just to rub salt in that suicidal wound, anyone further Board-certified has wasted another 2-years or more of money & time, with yet-more schooling & more debt.

So the veterinary behaviorist would kiss good-bye at least 14 years of education, spent reaching that status, only to lose it forever by doing something against the profession's well-known, published ethics... just to make a few bucks, on a few out-of-area cases?
Who would be so incredibly stoopid as to shoot themselves in the foot, lose their livelihood & their license, permanently, over something so puny?

I find it astonishing that U'd actually believe this. // FWIW, one of the vet-behaviorists who does remote consults is Nicholas Dodman, DVM - who is head of the Behavioral Dept of the Cummings College of Vet-Medicine, within Tufts University.

Herewith a snippet from an interview he did with The Bark  magazine, explaining 'what's a behaviorist?' as defined in the U.S.A.
QUOTE,
"Bark: 
'What is an animal behaviorist? What qualifies someone to be called a behaviorist?'

Dodman: 
"There are only two qualified types of behaviorists; one who is endorsed and certified by the Animal Behavior Society (ABS), the so-called certified Applied Animal Behaviorist (CAAB). And the veterinary ones, who are the diplomates of the American College of Veterinary Behavior. For the ABS, the minimum starting point is a master’s degree, but a lot of certified (applied) animal behaviorists have a PhD. That’s the non-veterinary variety.
In order to become a veterinary behaviorist, you have to do a vet degree first, taking four years after college, then one year internship, & then the residency program that is normally three years long. In other words, it’s another four years after the DVM that you become eligible to sit for the specialty examination in behavior. So after leaving high school, the ABS is a minimum of twelve years of study. And then you have to sit a pretty hard exam. These are the two types of people who are qualified animal behaviorists."
________________________________________________________

I think that makes it very clear, just how much breaking the veterinary Code of Ethics would cost.  The bold within Dr Dodman's reply is added for clarification.
The quote's origin is here -
http://thebark.com/content/dr-nicholas-dodman-dog-behavior-and-new-training-techniques

Karen Overall, DVM, DCVB, is another vet-behaviorist who does remote consults. // She's also founder of the Journal of Veterinary Behavior: clinical applications & research, & the prime editor thereof.  It's called the JVB for short. // She enjoys a global reputation for excellence in her field. There are several video-clips on UTube with Dr Overall, interviews & presentations, that are worth the time to watch.
The most-recent issue of JVB is here -
http://www.journalvetbehavior.com/current

The JVB is now in Volume 20 - 2 decades of publication; the July-Aug 2017 issue's main focus is stereotypies - causes, prevention, rehab. There are articles on horses, big cats, parrots, & captive wildlife in general, all vis-a-vis stereotypies. Then there are individual articles on research including dogs [2], cats [1], hogs [2], cattle [1], poultry [1], & Policy [1].

I do not think Dr Overall would casually discard her hard-won & very dearly-cherished vocation for the equivalent of Esau's mess of pottage.
 - Terry

 

 

[leashedForLife]

I think you will find that this is a "register" of like minded people.
I know several of the members listed and they are dog trainers. Yes, the ones I know, are very good dog trainers but they are not qualified Pet Behaviour Therapists.
If they were they would almost certainly have become members of the APBC or COAPE.

question, @gypsysmum2 -
Did U actually read the requirements to register as a Clinical Animal Behaviorist [CAB] with the ABTC?
Or did U look at a different list of practitioners, recognize a few names, & assume that those persons were CABs?

ABTC recognizes more than 1 level of expertise; they list 7 -
1:  ABTC Standard - Animal Trainer 
2:  ABTC Standard - Animal Training Instructor 
3:  ABTC Standard - Animal Behaviour Technician 
4:  ABTC Standard - Clinical Animal Behaviourist 
5:  ABTC Standard - Veterinary Behaviourist  
6:  ABTC Standard - Accredited Animal Behaviourist 
7:  ABTC Standard for individuals who engage in work as a legal expert witness

'Animal trainer' is the lowest entry point, which is UK national standard educational Level 3; instructors are qualified to teach trainers, & are education Level 4; technician is Level 5; Clinical Animal Behaviorist, the group to which i referred, is education Level 6.
Vet-Behaviorists under ABTC purview, need "only" meet the same requirements as the CABs do, which is less-stringent than the extra 4-years of study demanded by the College of Veterinary Behavior in the U.S.A., but is still a high bar. // See the pertinent listing at the link, above.

If U look at the practitioners listed under CAB, every one of them is an APBC member - so why are they cross-listed with the ABTC? Because IMO ABTC is a higher standard, & adds to one's professionalism.  To be listed, U must 1st be a pro member of an organization that agrees to abide by all ABTC standards of practice - which includes the APBC,  IAABC, Brit Vet-nurses Assoc, Brit Small-Animal Vets Assoc, 'INTO Dogs', & so on.  Then, as a member of that recognized organization, U can further apply to be listed by the ABTC as a practitioner.

Only the 'Accredited Animal Behaviorist' does not specify the minimum educational level required; the Expert Witness standard requires that an applicant has met the stipulated education level to become an ABTC practitioner, BEFORE they apply to be an expert witness.

from the ABTC April 2017 newsletter, i quote,
"ABTC registers audit
As part of ABTC's ethos of quality & transparency, the published registers of practitioners was [EDIT: were] audited in March 2017.
A random list of names was selected from each register, & their credentials - including CPD records - were independently verified as meeting the required standard to qualify for an entry on the appropriate register."

'Accredited Animal Behaviorist' is the register that lists Ms Bondarenko, via her membership of the IAABC - for their standards, see
https://iaabc.org/apply/cib
Chirag Patel is another excellent UK trainer whom i know via the 'net; he too, is an IAABC member, an ABTC listed AAB, & is, per the ABTC, a certified Parrot consultant - which is intriguing, as i know him as a dog trainer, & my parrots were the species that completed my crossover to pos-R training in my 20s, yet i didn't know we had psittacines in common.

Like the APBC, the BSAVA, etc, the APDT-uk were among the founding organizations of this umbrella group. // IAABC entered the roster later; PPG / the force-free Pet Professional Guild, is not yet a member, but I think that's probably inevitable as PPG formalizes their own standards for higher qualifications above 'trainer'.
Accreditation continues to become more & more formalized, & basic to professional status - in all disciplines, including dog training & B-Mod. This is IME & IMO, a good thing.
- terry

 

[gypsysmum2]

Much easier, surely then, to just go straight to the APBC website and choose a Fully Qualified Behaviourist form there. Why sift through all the names of trainers on another list?

Will you just concede please, Leashed for Life, that those of us working in the sector over here know more about it than those from other countries? I would not presume, for example, to question your knowledge of how to find a good behaviourist in the States.

 

[leashedForLife]

GM2,
as U believed that the membership of ABTC was merely a fellowship organization & were previously unaware of its existence [as was i], would U concede that i introduced new knowledge to the forum? - Particularly that the ABTC has the avowed intent of regulation of the pet-training industry, which is surely overdue, & welcome news.  
  - terry
 

 

[gypsysmum2]

The OP had already been guided in the direction of COAPE and APBC. There was no need to provide a further list of people, many of them duplicates, but most of them trainers rather than behaviourists. By your own admission a behaviourist was needed so why add a whole lot of trainers into the mix? The OP was more than capable of doing their own internet research and just needed some guidance towards a quality source of behaviour advice. That quality is more than adequately supplied, in this country, by either APBC or COAPE. Job done.

 

[SamR]

Apologies been a while in replying, Thank you everyone for your time and help, I have been able to pick up a lot of good pointers which will help us work towards getting our staffy right. Glad I found this forum and no doubt will enjoy the conversations.

 

[gypsysmum2]

Hope things work out for you and your lovely dog @SamR If nothing else you will learn, from a behaviourist, a whole load of stuff you didn't know you knew! Keep us posted.

 

[leashedForLife]

The OP had already been guided in the direction of COAPE and APBC. There was no need to provide a further list of people, many of them duplicates, but most of them trainers rather than behaviourists. By your own admission a behaviourist was needed so why add a whole lot of trainers into the mix?
The OP was more than capable of doing their own internet research and just needed some guidance towards a quality source of behaviour advice. That quality is more than adequately supplied, in this country, by either APBC or COAPE. Job done.

Beg pardon - i did not "add trainers", i specified CABs.

so adding new knowledge of an umbrella organization, founded specifically to introduce regulatory legislation in the UK, & which requires formal schooling of BOTH behaviorists AND trainers, counts for nothing?    Yes, dear. 


@SamR - 
do let us know what U decide, & how U and Ur dog get on?  Behavior can be a thorny issue, but with help, i'm sure this can be improved.
 - terry