Staggered at the price of a pup

[Rinkydinkydo]

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Over the last few weeks I've been planning putting a new crew together when the time is right.
What I'm staggered at is the price of Border Terrier pups,I couldn't belive my eyes when i saw the price ranges. Starting price for a none Kc pup £850 up to £2000 for a Kc pup,average being between £1200 to £1500 for a Kc pup.
Now my brain was going in to overdrive thinking about that £2000 grand price tag and doing the maths. Average litter of 5 sometimes going up to 8,a possible £16000 for a litter.
With price tags like these I make no wonder the flames are being fanned by puppy farms and dog thefts.

 

[merlina]

And yes, apart from the whole welfare issue, it's why we now have a spaniel-sh and a corgi x from RSPCA! Healthy little beasts too!

 

[JudyN]

Good grief At least lurchers are cheap!

I wonder... if the ideal breeder is someone for whom it is their 'job' but also their vocation, they need to make a living out of it. How many litters could/would an 'ideal breeder' produce a year, what would be the expenses, and would it supply a living salary?

Though generally I'm an 'adopt, don't breed' person, I do think we need good breeders to produce excellent pets (or working dogs for that latter), particularly as regards health and temperament, to avoid so many dogs with behavioural or health issues ending up in rescue in the first place. But I'm not sure we can rely on people who breed excellent pups simply for the love of it rather than for money - they certainly exist (including on this forum), but are there enough, and can we distinguish them from people who just choose the first potential mate because it'll be 'fun' and make some money?

It's a big question...

 

[Finsky]

Over the last few weeks I've been planning putting a new crew together when the time is right.
What I'm staggered at is the price of Border Terrier pups,I couldn't belive my eyes when i saw the price ranges. Starting price for a none Kc pup £850 up to £2000 for a Kc pup,average being between £1200 to £1500 for a Kc pup.
Now my brain was going in to overdrive thinking about that £2000 grand price tag and doing the maths. Average litter of 5 sometimes going up to 8,a possible £16000 for a litter.
With price tags like these I make no wonder the flames are being fanned by puppy farms and dog thefts.

Unfortunately in recent years, many celebrities have chosen this breed and the publicity makes others to want them too has brought the prices up. Though since the worst hype, other breeds have now come to the lime light ,but in general, demand for the smaller size dogs remains high..or that's what I think of it.
Not only that, these current times have buffeted puppy sales.
I can't help it but I'm often finding myself looking 'pups for sale' sites (just for sake of curiosity). Not that long ago the types of dogs that I'm most interested..(Fell/Lakeland type terriers)...there has been fairly steady amount of adverts for them. Other day I met another Lakie owner on the fields and she was trying to find a pup to go with her current older dog, saying she has to drive all the way to Scotland to fetch a pup as there is nothing available any closer.
I couldn't believe her, so after doing little research..I was amazed how they've disappeared from 'supply' ...just some stud dog adverts and no pups nor 'second hand' ones at all...'blimey'!
No wonder we've been asked many times if we are planning to breed from our girl.. Nope...not going there..don't feel any temptation what so ever.

 

[Flobo]

When DEFRA brought in the new laws regarding home boarding in Oct 2018 they also updated a lot of other animal welfare regs which includes needing a licence to breed if you have 3 or more litters a year or less litters than that if you are selling your pups for a noticeable profit, as you are then considered a business. It also covers ,I think, if you are moving and selling pups for someone else, which should then cover the way puppy farms sell in theory..it's worth looking up and being aware because the local dog wardens(who do the checks but are few and far between with a huge work load) can only investigate if complaints are made, for example if you've bought a pup from a home and you have any concerns that actually it might have come from a pup farm(pup is ill, maybe younger than it should be, you didn't see mum, or she was there but subdued etc) that 3rd party should have a licence and at the very least need investigating and it could also lead back to the farm..so it absolutely needs to be flagged up. If even one farm gets closed down it's a result!!
Sorry went off on a tangent then! But maybe this change in licensing has put some potentially good breeders off? I don't know but I am glad there are better regulations around now, it's just enforcing them that is difficult...

 

[merlina]

I suppose also because of Covid it's harder for puppy smugglers to be bringing in litters from across the Channel.

 

[Ari_RR]

Still a very small amount compared to the costs of ownership over the lifespan, isn’t it?

 

[JudyN]

Still a very small amount compared to the costs of ownership over the lifespan, isn’t it?

Yes - and if you can't afford it, you should be questioning whether you can afford the upkeep of a dog, including unexpected vet bills.

 

[Finsky]

I totally agree with all the comments, but...
as the pup prices are upwards going trend...will that encourage more dog breeding/farming in a temptation of making money?
And on the other side of the coin....will this price out people who find the initial first leap to dog ownership too much to bare, people who would look after their dogs. You can make payment plans for vet bills but I doubt there is such a thing for paying for a dog/pup.
Will dog ownership become new 'only for the privilege' status?

I hold my hands up and admit for not being rich. I have never paid a lot for my pets and in past some we have been given for nothing! And yet, we have always paid our vet bills and looked after our dogs.
If I would have to start paying 1000's for a new dog..I would seriously have to think if having a dog would be something we could still do....if not, it would 'kill me'..but lump sum like that is not in everybody's reach.

 

[JudyN]

but lump sum like that is not in everybody's reach.

I was wondering about this in the shower this morning. If the high price is justified, then people could save up for a year or two, just as if they want a new car. Once you have a dog, then you either need to insure or be hit with a crippling vet bill and have to make very hard decisions, so you need to find money at some point.

On the other hand, the more expensive well-bred puppies are, the more it will encourage 'backyard breeders', puppy farms, deals in laybys or down the pub, and so on.

 

[Mayblossom]

The prices are crazy! Even for rehoming ( not rescue) the owners are still asking £1000 for a dog that is 6 years old and selling due to having a baby sad when a dog has to go due to a baby arriving Cockerpoos are getting on for £2000 in Surrey from some breeders, it’s only a cross breed after all ! We paid £465 for our Springer and she was just perfect, nothing like the prices today. Lily our Parson was £650 from a breeder who shows ...same breeder today £1500 I just wouldn’t pay that sort of money but a lot will because all puppies seem to be reserved before they are born. I’ve brought ponies for a lot less than that

 

[Ragsysmum]

Plenty of lovely dogs in rescue and often pups too where you don't need to pay a fortune initially for the years of pleasure you will get in return for rehoming a rescue.

 

[Rinkydinkydo]

Plenty of lovely dogs in rescue and often pups too where you don't need to pay a fortune initially for the years of pleasure you will get in return for rehoming a rescue.

Thats all very well if you are aloud to rehome a dog. Ive tried in the past and been rejected because I don't have a garden as such.

 

[Rinkydinkydo]

I totally agree with all the comments, but...
as the pup prices are upwards going trend...will that encourage more dog breeding/farming in a temptation of making money?
And on the other side of the coin....will this price out people who find the initial first leap to dog ownership too much to bare, people who would look after their dogs. You can make payment plans for vet bills but I doubt there is such a thing for paying for a dog/pup.
Will dog ownership become new 'only for the privilege' status?

I hold my hands up and admit for not being rich. I have never paid a lot for my pets and in past some we have been given for nothing! And yet, we have always paid our vet bills and looked after our dogs.
If I would have to start paying 1000's for a new dog..I would seriously have to think if having a dog would be something we could still do....if not, it would 'kill me'..but lump sum like that is not in everybody's reach.

The higher the price the more dodgy stuff will go on.
We've had pups gifted in the past from litters that were 4 and 5 years in the planning. Nothing to do with money but always about the dogs. It's very rare this happens these days.

 

[Finsky]

Thats all very well if you are aloud to rehome a dog. Ive tried in the past and been rejected because I don't have a garden as such.

In past I've had people from two different charities come around to do a 'house inspection'. Each time they mentioned that unless we were able to make the garden pond secure, they would not be able to allow us to have one of their dogs.
There was no way to 'secure' the pond without turning it into real dog trap and at that time it would have caused issues to the pond's residents, but we faced little understanding from their behalf.
So rescues have not been option for us. I can understand their reasoning, but I don't agree with their 'expert' opinion with this matter...nor I was overly keen how our interest was more of 'pushed' towards certain dogs even they were not something we were looking for nor felt any draw towards.
I found so many things that I didn't like with that process, so I gave up.
Despite trying, having a dog through 'proper' dog charity never happened ..over the years we found 4 'second hand' dogs of varying ages by other means.
Our experience with the dog charities was long time ago, so what we saw in the homes and experienced dealings with their staff might have been changed a lot from those days. I truly hope so...even we were bit put off with all that, we still have been trying to help the dogs in those homes by other charitable means.
We never had issues with that said 'dangerous' pond...altogether 5 dogs (and one of them pup) and several visiting 'holiday dogs' and dozens of chickens & other wildlife learned to cope to live in the presence of that 'dangerous' pond .

 

[Rinkydinkydo]

@Finsky ... yep it was our fencing that was the problem. We have stock fencing with lamb wire,you can't have any other fencing because of strong winds we get up here. I know in my 55 years we've never lost a dog, either lurcher or terrier. It's a shame because it's a paradise for them,6000 acres of moorland at one side and 3 times as much at the other side.

Like yourself,I'll keep supporting financially when I can.

 

[niamh123]

I was very surprised when I started enquiring about a new puppy (Curly coated retriever) when I got my old boy Travis I paid £500 for him they were then as now classed as a vulnerable breed that was nearly 17 years ago.I expected to pay around £2000 for a puppy to my surprise the going rate for a fully health tested Sire and Dam puppy is £750-£800.
I can remember when Travis was quite young a lady came up to us and started making a fuss of him she told us she was going to get a puppy like Trav I asked her what the breed affix was and she replied the breeder didn't have one which I thought was very odd.She told me she was paying £1500 for her puppy ,she then asked how much more growing my Labradoodle had to do and how she hoped her puppy would look like Trav,when I told her he was a CCR and I only paid £500 for him she didn't know what to say and walked away.

 

[Ragsysmum]

It is more difficult when you don't have and enclosed garden or yard of course, but that would be even harder with a pup. An adult dog which could be taken out several times a day for toileting and exercise, would be much easier to deal with. Many folk in flats and even not on the ground floor, manage surprising well then. Good luck anyway.

 

[Rinkydinkydo]

Good grief At least lurchers are cheap!

I wonder... if the ideal breeder is someone for whom it is their 'job' but also their vocation, they need to make a living out of it. How many litters could/would an 'ideal breeder' produce a year, what would be the expenses, and would it supply a living salary?

Though generally I'm an 'adopt, don't breed' person, I do think we need good breeders to produce excellent pets (or working dogs for that latter), particularly as regards health and temperament, to avoid so many dogs with behavioural or health issues ending up in rescue in the first place. But I'm not sure we can rely on people who breed excellent pups simply for the love of it rather than for money - they certainly exist (including on this forum), but are there enough, and can we distinguish them from people who just choose the first potential mate because it'll be 'fun' and make some money?

It's a big question...

You may of spoken too soon @JudyN....

 

[JudyN]

I doubt I'd be able to take on a rescue lurcher as we don't have 6' fencing all the way round the garden. Which is fair enough - we were just very lucky that Jasper simply doesn't realise that fences are jumpable.