Stinky dog

[DisastrousD]

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Hi all, new here. Originally posted on introductions, not sure how to work this yet! Anyway...

Dogs age - around 5/6ish
Breed - bulldog (possibly mixed with something else)

Problem- He isn't house trained...

I've had this dog around 3 years now and am finding it impossible to house train him, I've researched and tried so many things, changing his feeding time, bedtime, setting alarms in the middle of the night to take him out, crate work, he checks out fine at the vets.

He does multiple piles and puddles throughout the night, if hes in a crate he will mess in it, if i take him out in the early hours i will still come down to a smelly mess. In the day time he doesn't mess in the house at all, even if I have to nip out.

I'm at a loss and it's getting me down, my house constantly stinks and I'm embarrassed to have people come over because of the smell. Even after cleaning it lingers for hours.

 

[JudyN]

So during the day he asks to go out if he needs to, and will hang on when you're out?

How many poos/pees does he do overnight, and how many during the day?

What tests has the vet done?

What do you feed him (brand and specific variety), and is he a healthy weight for his breed?

Also, where does he sleep at night? It might help if he slept in the same room as you (either in or out the crate) - for one, he might sleep more soundly, and also, you might be able to hear him moving around when he needs to go.

 

[DisastrousD]

So during the day he asks to go out if he needs to, and will hang on when you're out?

How many poos/pees does he do overnight, and how many during the day?

What tests has the vet done?

What do you feed him (brand and specific variety), and is he a healthy weight for his breed?

Also, where does he sleep at night? It might help if he slept in the same room as you (either in or out the crate) - for one, he might sleep more soundly, and also, you might be able to hear him moving around when he needs to go.

Hi Judy, thank you for replying.

He's on Chappie, I have tried other brands to see if it changes. I've also tested just meat on its own and just biscuits. If he has just meat he won't poo in the house, only the garden but will still urinate. With biscuits he does both. But without a mix of meat and biscuits he drops weight quite quickly. So not really an option to keep him on only meat. (With meat and biscuits he doesn't mess in the house through the day even if I'm not in)

Through the night he does at least 2 poos and a couple of puddles of wee. That's on a good night.

The vets did some bloods and a general checkup and said there was no underlying problems as to why he couldn't hold himself. The vet weighed him about a month ago and he weighed around 28kg. He has problems with one of his front legs and has flare ups of lameness on it, so the vet will give him medication at those times to reduce the swelling.

He sleeps downstairs as he can't get up and downstairs, they're quite steep.

His previous owners never house trained him and he was left for long periods of time on his own and the house was mostly kept in darkness, I am currently living in previous owners house (they left him with me, I moved in and they moved out. Complicated story!).

 

[JoanneF]

I wonder if the previous owners may have scolded him, which has led to him waiting until nobody is watching. Dogs don't make the distinction between being scolded for toileting as opposed to toileting in the house.

Given his clean bill of health, I'd suggest rewarding him massively when he toilets outdoors. Do it immediately so that it's clear that it's for toileting and not for anything else and be generous - maybe use something that's only reserved for outside toilets, like several tiny pieces of frankfurter sausage fed in succession (to a dog, several small pieces holds more value than one piece of equivalent size).

When he learns what a fabulous prize he wins for toileting outside, hopefully he will try to hold.

And hard as it is, try not to show any reaction to accidents, for the reason above.

 

[JudyN]

Ah, the poor lad - his background before he came to you won't help, and it's a shame he can't do stairs.

You could try sleeping downstairs with him for a few nights to see if it makes a difference. OK, it's unlikely to be a long-term fix, but it might at least give some clues as to what's behind this and what might work. And - seeing that JoanneF has just posted - if he does ask to go out, or you manage to get him out in the night, great treats might help.

Are you sure he's not a little overweight? Checking online, average male bulldogs range from 23 to 25 kg, though you say he might have something else in him. So many dogs are overweight nowadays that sometimes even vets will think a fit dog is on the skinny side.

I would also consider a raw diet. You can give him just meat, and give fattier meats if he drops too much weight. Dogs on raw diets almost invariably do fewer, much smaller, firmer and less smelly poos. So even if it doesn't solve the overnight pooing, it'll make the clean-up easier. There are several members here who have fed raw over many years (decades in some cases), so do ask if you'd like more info.

 

[DisastrousD]

I wonder if the previous owners may have scolded him, which has led to him waiting until nobody is watching. Dogs don't make the distinction between being scolded for toileting as opposed to toileting in the house.

Given his clean bill of health, I'd suggest rewarding him massively when he toilets outdoors. Do it immediately so that it's clear that it's for toileting and not for anything else and be generous - maybe use something that's only reserved for outside toilets, like several tiny pieces of frankfurter sausage fed in succession (to a dog, several small pieces holds more value than one piece of equivalent size).

When he learns what a fabulous prize he wins for toileting outside, hopefully he will try to hold.

And hard as it is, try not to show any reaction to accidents, for the reason above.

That could possibly be true as when he's outside he won't go to the toilet if I'm watching him or too close by. I don't scold his indoor messes as I previously read that they don't know what they are being told off for when you didn't catch them in the act (or something along those lines!)

 

[DisastrousD]

Ah, the poor lad - his background before he came to you won't help, and it's a shame he can't do stairs.

You could try sleeping downstairs with him for a few nights to see if it makes a difference. OK, it's unlikely to be a long-term fix, but it might at least give some clues as to what's behind this and what might work. And - seeing that JoanneF has just posted - if he does ask to go out, or you manage to get him out in the night, great treats might help.

Are you sure he's not a little overweight? Checking online, average male bulldogs range from 23 to 25 kg, though you say he might have something else in him. So many dogs are overweight nowadays that sometimes even vets will think a fit dog is on the skinny side.

I would also consider a raw diet. You can give him just meat, and give fattier meats if he drops too much weight. Dogs on raw diets almost invariably do fewer, much smaller, firmer and less smelly poos. So even if it doesn't solve the overnight pooing, it'll make the clean-up easier. There are several members here who have fed raw over many years (decades in some cases), so do ask if you'd like more info.

He's quite tall for the supposed breed he is. He has the features of a bulldog but he's quite tall, if he jumps up at me his front paws are just above my waist (I'm 5'6 for reference) he's also more muscular in the front but slims out in the back end. His energy levels are also sky high, hes very active and easily gets destructive when bored. The vets have never mentioned him being overweight for his size but I will ask them the next time I take him.

I will look into a raw diet, i have heard of them but never tried one.

Thank you

 

[JoanneF]

they don't know what they are being told off for when you didn't catch them in the act

Yes, that's true. But if you do catch them in the act and tell them off, they sometimes just seek or create opportunities to toilet when you are not there. Which is what's possibly led to your problem.

Try to show him that toileting (outdoors) makes you really happy and makes you throw a sausage party when he does it.

 

[JudyN]

There's lots on raw feeding here: Raw feeding

 

[Ken Thomas]

my jackshi did the same but only poo, I put a dog door in so if he can't hold it till hes walk will go in the garden.

 

[JudyN]

my jackshi did the same but only poo, I put a dog door in so if he can't hold it till hes walk will go in the garden.

Probably not an option with a larger dog - if the dog can get out, then (small) people would be able to get in - it would probably invalidate your home insurance too.

 

[DisastrousD]

Probably not an option with a larger dog - if the dog can get out, then (small) people would be able to get in - it would probably invalidate your home insurance too.

Thanks for the link Judy, going to have a look through it now.

 

[DisastrousD]

my jackshi did the same but only poo, I put a dog door in so if he can't hold it till hes walk will go in the garden.

I'd love to put a doggy door in for him but unfortunately I don't live in a safe enough area! He can go freely in and out of the house from 7am until around midnight, though.

 

[JudyN]

I'd love to put a doggy door in for him but unfortunately I don't live in a safe enough area! He can go freely in and out of the house from 7am until around midnight, though.

Ahh... Do you mean the door is left open? If so, that can prevent a dog from distinguishing 'indoors' and 'outdoors', and he might not understand 'asking' to go out. You could also encourage him to bark at the door when he wants to go out (don't open the door when he first asks but wait till the volume of his asking increases), and then reward him as soon as he's outside as a reward for 'asking'. Then it might carry over into the night and you might have a chance of hearing him.

 

[Flobo]

His previous owners never house trained him and he was left for long periods of time on his own and the house was mostly kept in darkness, I am currently living in previous owners house (they left him with me, I moved in and they moved out. Complicated story!).

So sad
Aswell as above sound advice re diet and super rewards when toileting outside, a random thought here, maybe try a night light for him? Being left for long periods, mostly in the dark would have a negative impact on anyone. His first 2 or 3 years of life were pretty much experiencing abandonment with no positive input for the poor boy by the sounds of it, this would absolutely have had a huge effect on him.
Also have you tried keeping a regular routine of walks for him? I only ask because you say he can go in and out as he pleases all day and into the night. Maybe he needs a walk routine to be established, with super rewards if he toilets while you're out on these walks? Maybe over time and with consistency things may change...

 

[DisastrousD]

So sad
Aswell as above sound advice re diet and super rewards when toileting outside, a random thought here, maybe try a night light for him? Being left for long periods, mostly in the dark would have a negative impact on anyone. His first 2 or 3 years of life were pretty much experiencing abandonment with no positive input for the poor boy by the sounds of it, this would absolutely have had a huge effect on him.
Also have you tried keeping a regular routine of walks for him? I only ask because you say he can go in and out as he pleases all day and into the night. Maybe he needs a walk routine to be established, with super rewards if he toilets while you're out on these walks? Maybe over time and with consistency things may change...

Yeah I have to walk him in the evening as he doesn't like men and gets quite protective if anyone starts walking towards me. Completely fine with women and kids, also petrified of cars, bikes and anything that makes a loud noise. He wasn't socialised when he was younger. It's taken a lot of work to get him to where he is today, still some to go!

 

[DisastrousD]

So sad
Aswell as above sound advice re diet and super rewards when toileting outside, a random thought here, maybe try a night light for him? Being left for long periods, mostly in the dark would have a negative impact on anyone. His first 2 or 3 years of life were pretty much experiencing abandonment with no positive input for the poor boy by the sounds of it, this would absolutely have had a huge effect on him.
Also have you tried keeping a regular routine of walks for him? I only ask because you say he can go in and out as he pleases all day and into the night. Maybe he needs a walk routine to be established, with super rewards if he toilets while you're out on these walks? Maybe over time and with consistency things may change...

He never makes a sound when he needs to go he just goes so I found keeping the door open airs the house out and means he can go in and out when he needs the toilet. He won't go when we're out because he's too scared of all the sounds around him.

A better routine of letting him out at certain times of the day could help, I'll try anything at this point.

If anyone has any recommendations of how to get rid of the lingering smell, I'd love to hear them! I have ripped all the flooring up and now down to the original tiled floor and I use the pet safe cleaners and candles but it's still quite whiffy!

 

[JudyN]

He never makes a sound when he needs to go he just goes so I found keeping the door open airs the house out and means he can go in and out when he needs the toilet.

My dog would just stand silently at the back door as a pup, which wasn't much use if we were in the front room... I found teaching him to vocalise by holding the doorhandle and wait for him to whine, then wait for louder whines and up to a bark, was really quite easy. Of course, he was just a few weeks old and already knew he should go outside - it could be tougher for you, but I do think getting him used to asking to go out in the day could help at nights.

And can I just say I think it's great that you're doing everything you can for him when it must make home life difficult - respect!

Also, for his reactivity and fears, there might be something useful here: Dog Reactivity

 

[DisastrousD]

My dog would just stand silently at the back door as a pup, which wasn't much use if we were in the front room... I found teaching him to vocalise by holding the doorhandle and wait for him to whine, then wait for louder whines and up to a bark, was really quite easy. Of course, he was just a few weeks old and already knew he should go outside - it could be tougher for you, but I do think getting him used to asking to go out in the day could help at nights.

And can I just say I think it's great that you're doing everything you can for him when it must make home life difficult - respect!

Thank you Judy, I will have a read through it.

Yes his behaviour did put a strain on my relationship when I first got him. Which was understandable as he'd never been around children and kept bowling them over and chewing their things up. Definitely been a learning experience! We've come a long way together, just to tackle the messing in the house now!

 

[Tinytom]

Re the smell ...have you tried baking powder/bicarbonate of soda and either white vinegar and warm water mixture or lemon juice if you dont have have any vinegar.....
Well done for sticking with your boy