Struggling with crate training...

[Lunasmama]

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Hello

Our boxer puppy is 8.5 weeks old. We've only had her with us for 5 days. 

I wanted to crate train her and have read up lots about it. I thought I could nail it no problem! Bit naive  -_-

It's not going well. She will venture in it occassionally - usually when she's giddy and races in it with her toys.

The problem is at night.  She hates it. She cries and cries. She squeels and rattles the cage door. It can go on for hours. We let her out for the toilet 2-3 hrly through the night. She has chew toys etc. But there's no settling her.  I've spent lots of time playing with her involving the crate but it's not helping.

Last night I thought we'd cracked it. We had a tough night the previous night and I was exhausted. I had set my alarm to wake me to let her out but I must have been so tired because I slept through it- which is very unusual for me!

I woke up at 6am and realised I hadn't heard a thing from her. Wahoo! - I came downstairs to find her on her cushion in the middle of the room! She had managed - god only knows how- to open the door on the crate! I can only think she had banged on the door so much it came loose and opened. 

I'm tempted to give up on trying to keep her in the crate and allow her to have under the stairs and hallway through the night - still in the crate but with the door open so she doesn't feel penned in.

Everything else is going really well. She eats well, plays well, sits when asked and toileting is going well too. 

Any advice? I know we're only 5 days in but I have a niggling feeling that the crate just may not be for her.

Thanks jen 

Here's a little pic of Luna - aka Houdini!

 

[JoanneF]

You said 'She hates it. She cries and cries. She squeels and rattles the cage door. It can go on for hours.'

It's not a good idea to leave a puppy so distressed. 

Remember she has just been taken away from he mum and littermates so she will be lonely, confused and scared. If you choose to persevere with it, don't rush the crate, make it a fun place. Don't close the door until she is happy in there. Put a t shirt you have worn in the crate with her toys and bed. Only ever use the crate for good things, never punishment. If she cries you are going too fast.
At night, it's a good idea to have her crate in your room to start with so she knows you are close by. You can put a hand down to stroke and comfort her if she gets distressed. Please don't ignore her, you wouldn't ignore a crying child and leave her in an empty room.

 Comforting her when she is distressed is fine and will strengthen your bond. Unfortunately many people make the mistake of allowing a puppy to cry in the hope that they grow out of it, when actually all they have done is cement in the puppies mind that being left in the crate (or alone, or whatever is causing the crying) is indeed a terrible thing, and for many dogs this fear becomes a learned habit.

Gradually you can start moving the crate away to outside the bedroom door, near the room you want her to sleep in, and eventually into that room. With puppies learning, everything is done in little steps, and if anything starts to fail, you go back a step and stay there longer.

Also in your room you are more likely to hear her if she moves and needs out to toilet, but keep setting your alarm in case.

During the day though you should start to get her used to being alone for short periods so when she isn't interacting with you (to make your leaving less of a contrast) just walk out the room then back in - build up the time gradually.

or - you may choose to abandon the crate. I personally think it's a good idea to crate train in case a dog needs to be crated in the future, at the vets for example, but some dogs just don't take to it. A playpen arrangement is an alternative.

 

[Kate75]

Hi & welcome

Some great advice from Joanne especially if you can move the crate into your room at night!  

We had problems with Holly at the start in her crate.  It wasn't possible to have the crate in our room (due to its size) so on the third night I slept next to her in the kitchen so i could soothe her if she got distressed.  We also bought her a snuggle pup (cuddly toy that heats up and has a beating heart - my husband thought I was mad) and after that night she was fine for the next 4 months.  Then she decided crates were overrated (lots of crying and howling every night) and we had to ditch it - there is a whole other thread on this somewhere.  

To be honest I don't think Holly ever liked it and was just one of those dogs who didn't take to it! especially once she had done some serious growing!  We puppy proofed the kitchen and now she is confined to there when we are out and at night she has access to the landing and kitchen and changes sleeping spots several times a night although with this hot weather she is mostly down in the kitchen where it is cooler.

I am glad we managed to keep her in the crate for the first few months for her own safety especially while we were out and it really did help with the toilet training  but I'm glad Holly's out of it now.  I did feel a bit of a failure to start with but she's been much happier out of it.  She had her spay operation a few weeks ago and had to be crated before and after and the vets said she coped fine.

You do have to be careful with the type of crate you have if you have a houdini!  Our best friends lent us one they had bought for their houdini labrador some years earlier.  He had got through 4 before that one!  I think it was a savic one and you could just tell from how solid it was that escape would be very hard! Holly never managed it!  she did manage to break out of her car one several times and that was a more common cheaper make!

Luna is so gorgeous, just look at that little face!  enjoy her while she's this small and cuddly!  Holly is 10 months now and thriving but I miss her being that small! it doesn't seem to last very long!  

 

[excuseme]

Please remember to covet the crate with a blanket to make it more "Den" like, which can make it feel much more secure and not so much just a cage/crate ! 

 

[arealhuman]

I'm sorry I don't have any advice I can offer, but I hope you don't mind me chiming in and saying what a gorgeous looking little puppy!  I hope it all goes well.

 

[excuseme]

I agree, a gorgeous puppy

 

[gypsysmum2]

What happened when she escaped from her crate? Did she toilet everywhere? Did she destroy everything? It will give you an insight into her character if you assess how she behaves when left out of the crate. I am a big fan of crates but some dogs just do not cope with them. You may decide, eventually, to confine her to a "safe" room. It seems that she was fine alone in the room on the sofa so maybe she is fine alone just not confined? If, however, she did lots of poops and wrecked things then she may not be fine to be left alone and may need to be next to you in a crate.

 

[leashedForLife]

I can't be absolutely certain, but i'm betting the crate is a show-crate AKA wire crate, not an airline-approved shipping crate?

If so, & it was bought new, i'd immediately shop for a used shipping-crate on PreLoved / GumTree / CraigsList, e-Bay, etc; & just as soon as i could get a used or even new shipping-crate, i'd return the wire version.     I know that sounds excessive, but shipping-crates are multi-purpose & virtually impossible to escape from, plus they are the Gold Standard for transporting a pet -- vs wire crates, which are NOT safe for transport, & should not be used in the car.

Shipping crate:
 - solid one-piece molded bottom, no leaks, splashes, no peeing thru the bars, etc.
 - solid walls prevent the dog from pulling 'chew toys' inside to amuse themselves when bored; drapes, bedspread, tablecloth, etc, are safe.
 - privacy & a sense of safety when the dog or pup lies down; window slots are in the top for ventilation, & only the DOOR allows someone to peer in easily.
 - solid roof overhead; gives Pup a den, gives owner a safe place to put the leash, etc; for young pups, the roof serves as a nightstand beside the bed. 
 - MOAT around the raised center-floor lets liquids [pee, vomit, spilled water... ] run off the floor so the dog doesn't have to lie in them.
 - burst-tested for safety under impact; won't easily rupture, even if thrown about or ejected from the car.  Life-insurance for the pet!

Wire crate
 - AKA show crate: original purpose was to allow all passersby to see the dog at a show venue. // NO privacy; dog is on exhibit.
 - open walls & especially open roof make many dogs anxious, or at least, uncomfortable. /  this isn't a 'den', it's a pen.
 - Draping it with a blanket only gives the occupant something to pull at & gnaw on, which isn't a good habit to teach.
 - open walls plus SHALLOW trays = splashes, leaks, overflows, & males who pee thru the 'walls'. Yuck. Even poop doesn't stay confined.  
- plastic trays crack, chip, & split, releasing liquids to the carpet or floor. 
 - metal trays flake paint, bend, warp, & rust.
 - When trays buckle under the dog's feet as they move, feces or spills can be forcefully ejected up & out... in the case of diarrhea or vomit, it's really messy.
 - in the car, any impact can make the crate collapse, bend & trap the occupant, open & release the pet to be flung about or even escape the vehicle, crush the occupant, or perforate her or him -- or anyone else in the car, as every wire rod is a potential skewer.  Very dangerous.

 - BENDING the roof of a show-crate upward & bowing the door outward, allows a dog or pup to squeeze sideways over the door like an envelope thru a mail-slot, & escape.
Depending on the situation, that can be very dangerous - a pup at home alone can get into the trash & swallow things, chew live electric cords, & get into all sorts of trouble that can mean a vet-bill or serious injury / illness.
A dog who gets in the habit of escaping is very quick at it - they can slither out of the crate while U drive, & become a hazardous distraction, as well as a danger to themselves.


Assuming it's a show-crate & lightly used, I'd return it ASAP & get a used shipping-crate that will fit the pup as an adult; any excess space now is easily filled by a clean, empty cardboard box [such as an empty box from a copy-shop that once held reams of paper - not stinky boxes from cleaning chemicals, or grocers' / liquor boxes that may have cockroach eggs in the seams].
Put the empty box in before putting the 2 clamshell halves together - if U need to, cut it down to size & re-fold it to fit, then tape.

SIZING
So long as the pup or dog can enter, U-turn, & exit, the crate is large enough; crates are not for play or standing at full height with the head lifted, they are for lying down - gnawing a long-lasting chew, licking the stuffing from a stuffed & frozen [or welded] Kong, taking a nap, watching other dogs from the shade during an outdoor show, etc.
To see what size works, take some small dry treats along to a pet-supply store, & try on a floor model for size: put a goody just inside the door & hold it ajar, so it can't close & pinch the dog's waist [when the floor bends under their weight]. Once the dog eats that one & looks for more, TOSS one into the crate so s/he must enter to eat it - if they can U-turn as opposed to back out, it's the correct size.

my 80# Akita had a 36-long x 24-wide x 27-high crate from 10-WO thru adulthood, & adored it - that crate took her by air, by car, was her bedroom in hotel stays & visits to relatives, & her safe place - always. No matter what she'd done, if she went to her crate, nothing happened - no scolding, not a word, no angry stomping walk, no p!ssed-off muttering, nada.  Quietly close the door, & fix what was broken / clean up the spill, etc.  Everybody needs a safe place, dogs, too.  
 - terry

Terry Pride, member Truly Dog-Friendly
'dogs R dogs, wolves R wolves, & primates R us.' (™ 2007)


 

 

[leashedForLife]

Encouraging the pup to enter the crate during the day /evening is also a good practice, see the CRATE GAMES clips on UTube or the book of the same name for ideas; stashing tasty treats in the crate,  putting the pup's toys in there [1 or at most 2, not 4 to 6!], etc, make it alluring.

FEED  pups in their crate twice daily - it's just another way to make the crate a happy place, & build a ready compliance with 'crate!' or a hand-signal to enter.
Let the pup out as soon as they finish the meal, don't leave them confined to fret, that defeats the purpose - & if they aren't housetrained yet, take them outside immediately to pee, post-meal.

If the crate is in the kitchen / downstairs during the day, & the pup is under 4-MO, i'd have the crate in my bedroom at night, within arm's reach of the bed. // Sleeping in the same room is a peaceful way to improve the bond with a dependent pup, & they can easily be moved to another part of the house when they are older & more self-reliant.
PLUS, until the pup is about 15-WO, they usually need a potty trip during the night - I make a practice of setting the alarm for 3-AM with young pups [or even older pups & adults who have not been housetrained], to get Pup out before they are in distress from a full bladder, or before an under-12-WO pup automatically empties.

Pups from 8-WO to 12-WO don't have functioning sphincters yet - the purse-string muscles that hold the bladder neck or anus closed; when they are full, they empty, & it's not yet under their physical control, so punishing them at this age is mean.   They literally have no conscious way to stop it, getting them out to void is entirely up to the adult human on duty, & if U fail, YOU are the one who should be swatted with a rolled magazine, LOL - walk around & bop yer own head with the rolled mag, while repeating, 'I WILL get the puppy outside every __ hours, without fail... I WILL get the puppy...', a dozen or 2 times. 
The rule is, AGE * OF * PUP * IN * MONTHS + 1  = max number of hours between potty-trips.
Ex, 8-WO = 2-MO + 1 = 3-hours between potty trips, max.

In addition, trigger events mean the pup goes right out the door on leash - 
 * eating a meal: immediately after to pee, about 45-mins later to poop.
* a large drink
* active play
* waking from a nap
* exciting events - e-g, a visitor comes by & fusses the pup; out we go!, on leash.

Potty trips are on leash so we are right there to see how much, what, & to reward the pup or dog on the spot, with treats we have on our persons. U can't reward them after entering the house; that's the wrong message, it has to be at the time, on the spot.

Also, if the dog / pup isn't housetrained, don't lay down a pad or blanket - it only complicates housetraining, as it invites urine with its absorbent surface. // Heated & cooled houses are a comfy temp-range for dogs, & with a shipping-crate, they are both protected from floor-level drafts  AND have adequate ventilation, from above [the slots or windows, depending on the maker & style]. If the floor is really cold, such as tile laid over a concrete foundation, put a layer of insulation UNDER the crate itself to avoid chilling the dog - such as a folded blanket, or a closed-cell foam pad.

Long-lasting chewies are great for giving a dog a pacifier for a crated period - antlers, nice sanitized heavy-walled marrow bones, hefty knuckle joints, cow's hooves, bull pizzles, etc. // Pigs' ears are nothing but fat & a little cartilage, they're high calorie & not nutritious, plus are gobbled like potato chips! Not a good choice.

Kong-toys are perfect for stuffing - giving he dog part of a meal, frozen, in a Kong is a perfect way to help fill their time while crated. // Wash the Kong before use [use a bottle brush  to clean the inside by hand, or they are top-rack dishwasher safe, too].  Canned, raw, chilled commercial 'sausage'-type dog food, moistened dry kibble, home-cooked, etc, any dog food can go in a Kong & be frozen - add grated carrots, broccoli or cauliflower florets, some canned fish [in water, not oil], live-culture organic yogurt, apple bits, apple sauce, dried berries... go wild, if Ur dog likes it, it can go in.
LIMIT high-fat or high-salt items to a minimum; dogs may love 'em, but they aren't good as everyday foods. Raw veg, cooked veg, fruit, low-fat cheese, etc, are all great, tasty additions & nutritious, too.

Things NOT to offer:
 - grapes or raisins [kidney damage]
  - onions  [anemia]
 - chocolate in any form [heart damage]

Hope the pup is learning & growing by leaps & bounds,
- terry

 

[leashedForLife]

crate games -
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=crate+games

 

[hollysh]

 I've got a 6 month old cavachon staying with me tonight, crated. She's been barking and crying tonight horrible to hear. Its different when its not your own. I'm a dog sitter and obviously have to follow the routine that the owners have set. The owner told me she barks for 10 minutes which she ignores. Said at first she thought it was cos she needed the toilet but now she knows its not. She's trying to get her to sleep through. If it were up to me I would have her on my bed. Im getting up every now and again to attempt to soothe her but I think it increases the problem. I'm hoping she will just sleep soon. 

 

[gypsysmum2]

Yes hollysh, it can increase the problem. If they are barking for attention then getting up will make the problem worse. If they are barking for other reasons then that needs to be addressed. The owner seems to know so I would try things like covering the crate, leaving the radio on etc to make her feel better. Of course it may be too late now because barking has "worked" in getting the attention she fancied. You may have to tough it out or bring the crate into the bedroom. All the time, of course, you have to bear in mind that she will, sometimes, really need to go out.  Just a matter of being tuned in and having that crystal ball

 

[Peegee]

Hi, what a beautiful puppy Luna is.  My dog is now 15 months old and we did use the crate for first 6-7 months, with mixed success.  Certainly useful for when we started leaving her for short periods of time during the day.  She was quite happy to be shut in but would go crackers when she woke and wanted out.  We took it in turns to sleep downstairs next to her for the first week and then left her in crate with access to playpen on her own - not very successfully. Lots of distressed noise during the night and at dawn.    I would reiterate advice from others to have her in crate in your room if you can for the first few months,. I wish we had done that.  She now sleeps in her own bed (no crate) on the landing or on our bedroom floor.   Good luck and enjoy the early months they don't last long!