Stud Dogs

[John E Greenwood]

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As people seem to come to k9 as part of the process of selecting a whippet stud dog for their bitches........Not too surprising, because, as you all know, if you put whippet or similar in google, this is often where you finish up........Would it be a good idea for there to be a list of stud dogs available on k9, perhaps with contact numbers, and may be even a star rating system...I don't really have any fixed ideas upon how this star rating could work, or how it would be arrived at, or even who would have the authority to award stars..

Perhaps dogs could be listed in catagories, ie. racing, showing, coursing working, etc....and stars be awarded for their performances at nationally recognized competitions....Maybe space could be made available for comments on temperament, etc. to be made by people (maybe club secretaries?) who know the dogs and/or their relations and offspring personally?

Maybe some attempt to rationalise the process of stud selection, and some collective objectivity could be of great benefit to the breed we love????

Obviously, each individual breeder is entitled to use which ever dog he or she pleases, but selections can only be made using the information available, perhaps k9 could blaze the trail as a source of reliable and unbiased information about prospective sires.

 

[JAX]

People do list their stud dogs in the `whippet club` magazine . If I was to want a stud dog i would go to shows/ race meeting etc to see the dogs or its progeny . Just having a list of dogs names wouldnt reallly surfice would it , Pedigrees are needed and history of the dog eg temprament . ability etc .

 

[dawn]

When we are looking for a stud dog, it has to be something to compliment the bitch and lines that tie in.

We wouldnt dream of using a stud dog just on performance as a 'stud' just because it produced X amount of puppies.

The stud dogs we consider are ones that we have admired in the ring and if the lines are right and he would compliment our bitch then we would investigate further and look at the progeny he has produced (if any)

Richard was the first to use Hillsdown Fergal and Ch Cobyco Candyman at stud, they were both dogs he admired and the lines were just right for the bitch.

I know a lot of the above does not relate to racing stock so maybe some of the racing people could explain how they select a stud dog??

 

[sparky]

sounds like a good idea. there seems to be a lot of people enquiring about stud dogs at the moment.

 

[Seraphina]

sounds like a good idea. there seems to be a lot of people enquiring about stud dogs at the moment.

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I am not sure that making it easy to find a stud dog is a good idea. I think people ought to do their research, rather than just looking at a list and picking a dog because he lives just down the road from them. It is not a good idea to have litters just for sake of having a litter. If people find it too much bother to go out, talk to experinced breeders and learn in the process, then they should not be breeding in the first place.

Anyway, how do you rate a stud dog? Number of pups depends first and foremost on the number of eggs the bitch produces, nothing to do with the dog. If bitch does not concieve it MAY mean the dog is infertile, but it also can mean the bitch was mated on a wrong day. If the dog does not mate a bitch it may be because she was not ready.

In any case I'd rather get a small litter of fantastic pups, than large litter of mediocre pups, however what I consider perfect may not be what other breeder is after.

Anybody who thinks they want to breed their bitch should first contact her breeder, who should be the best person to advice them on a suitable stud dog. Or at least go to shows (race meetings, lure coursing) and speak to people there.

Lida

 

[~Helen~]

good thread idea :thumbsup: I'll link it into FAQ, thanks John :cheers:

 

[John E Greenwood]

This kind of list would be a starting point for people......maybe get them off to a better start than ending up on sombodies' personal, home-made website, where there is no regulation or restriction upon them bulling up their own dogs for financial gain....

I agree that everyone should do more research than 1/2 an hour on t'internet...But it would be nice if that 1/2 hour gave them some productive and truthfull results.

 

[mally]

This kind of list would be a starting point for people......maybe get them off to a better start than ending up on sombodies' personal, home-made website, where there is no regulation or restriction upon them bulling up their own dogs for financial gain....

You want to be very very careful what your saying matie. I knew where this thread was going as soon as you posted it.

Say what you want greenie but don't I REPEAT DON'T bring me into it.

I said all i wanted to say in the pm i sent you a couple of weeks ago. When i had to have my thread stopped because it was gatecrashed all because someone had a dislike to some one i know. grow up mate please, it doesn't make you look big you know. It's also not helping anyone.

you know my number if you would like to discuss things with me. ring me anytime i'm always about.

 

[John E Greenwood]

I'm talking about whippets, me old mate.....and trying to breed good ones....is that what your talking about?????.....I'll be at the Northern tomorrow.....you can talk to me there if you want....This thread isn't about anything else other than what I have said...You say what you think....it's the internet, free speach for all.I have not said anything but the truth....if it hurts, tough watsit.

 

[Seraphina]

This kind of list would be a starting point for people......maybe get them off to a better start than ending up on sombodies' personal, home-made website, where there is no regulation or restriction upon them bulling up their own dogs for financial gain....

  I agree that everyone should do more research than 1/2 an hour on t'internet...But it would be nice if that 1/2 hour gave them some productive and truthfull results.

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But that is exactly my point; how can you possibly get " productive and truthful results" ?

This list would be used purely by inexperienced people not involved in any Whippet activity (showing, racing, coursing), who just want a litter. Most of these people should not be breeding anyway; there are enough dogs in rescue centers already. No stud dog owner in his right mind would agree for his dog to be used and then publicly rated by total novice with no understanding of dog breeding.

We would end up with a list of pet dogs, who's owners would be happy to make quick buck.

I do not think K9 should be helping people produce large number of unjustifiable litters.

Lida

 

[John E Greenwood]

Seraphina.....The idea is that the dog would be rated, before it is used by the total novice....So that the total novice is, at least, in with a chance of breeding a half decent litter.

I agree with all that about people shouldn't breed, dogs in rescue etc...but it's a free country, and people will breed....Should we help them to breed good litters of sound whippets with decent temperaments, which the unsuspecting buyer of a puppy may be able to race or show with moderate success.?...Or should we leave it to private individuals to promote their own studs of dubious quality?...The latter can only lead to detieriation of the breed, and disappointed puppy buyers..

The idea would be that k9 finds someone with experience and a depth of knowledge to help in grading dogs....rather than just the dogs owner bulling him up on his own web site.

 

[Seraphina]

The idea would be that k9 finds someone with experience and a depth of knowledge to help in grading dogs....rather than just the dogs owner bulling him up on his own web site.

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Well, we already have a system of grading dogs; it is called a Dog Show. Every weekend various people with many years of experience and qualified in judging choose what they consider the best dog. But that is their opinion and other person may choose totally different dog. You still have not explained what criteria you would use to grade the dogs. :unsure:

You really are opening a can of worms here. (w00t)

And yes, I agree, if people are determined to breed it is better to use a "good quality” dog which is suitable for their bitch, than any old dog down the road.

However , reputable breeders do not generally offer their stud dogs for this purpose, although if a person with a reasonable bitch approaches them privately, they may consider it.

Yes I agree; it is still a free country and I always feel because I do breed myself, I have no right to say to people they should not breed.

But the onus should be placed on the owner of the bitch to do the research and if it is not easy to get a stud dog, at least some may give up.

Lida

 

[June Jonigk]

I think John is generally talking about racing dogs - which people generally choose on their performance and speed. I personally looked for more than that when I chose a stud dog - temperament, looks bloodlines etc. Most people wanting to use a racing dog at stud, would I presume already be in racing, and unlike show dogs where winning is just someone elses opinion, in racing, the best dog wins! Anyone who uses a dog just on the owners opinion has not done their research, everyone thinks their dog is the best. Also, if someone is breeding whippets for racing, they will not be able to sell the pups to racing people if they use a naff stud dog :- " Of course newcomers to the sport could be "hoodwinked" into thinking a dog is better than it is, but then they would be daft not to make sure in the first place. :wacko:

As for a stud register on K9, it would still really only be the owners take on things. That is not to say I would be against it though.

 

[dawn]

maybe get them off to a better start than ending up on sombodies' personal, home-made website, where there is no regulation or restriction upon them bulling up their own dogs for financial gain....

No one is forced to use any dog it is personal choice and surely they will research the dog they are thinking about using!!

 

[Strike Whippets]

Stud dog's should IMHO be used on their bloodlines, structure's and temprements........simple hey ?? ....... :thumbsup:

 

[sparky]

nothing has been said about a stud dogs character, i think seeing the dog before a breeding is planned is a must. the attitude and behaviour of a stud is as important as physical attributes in my oppinion. its more than speed and good looks that make a good dog.

 

[bardmand]

I really like the Swedish Kennel Club's policy of making their records on all dogs registered with them available on the Internet. That includes even foreign dogs that have been entered in an official competition in Sweden.

Each entry includes the dog's pedigree, littermates, show results and results from other competitions (not sure about racing), breeder, owner etc.

The Norwegian Kennel Club only allows members (not including members of affiliated clubs) access to their system.

The good thing about the Swedish Kennel Club's way of doing things, is that it might help some people find potential stud dogs that might otherwise have been overlooked because they have not competed extensively in any field. They might still carry valuable bloodlines and qualities. I am pretty certain there has been a fair share of those in the history of whippet breeding.

 

[Strike Whippets]

Sounds like a good way of doing things ........

The good thing about the Swedish Kennel Club's way of doing things, is that it might help some people find potential stud dogs that might otherwise have been overlooked because they have not competed extensively in any field. They might still carry valuable bloodlines and qualities.

That's brilliant .......So many people use the top winner's but over look litter mate's, or well bred dog's that would tie in .......

 

[dawn]

I really like the Swedish Kennel Club's policy of making their records on all dogs registered with them available on the Internet.
The good thing about the Swedish Kennel Club's way of doing things, is that it might help some people find potential stud dogs that might otherwise have been overlooked because they have not competed extensively in any field. They might still carry valuable bloodlines and qualities. I am pretty certain there has been a fair share of those in the history of whippet breeding.

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This is OK once a dog has been in a competition or has sired a litter. What of the dog who, for whatever reason, is not able to compete (for example he broke a leg as a puppy which has not set correctly? ) but is otherwise an ideal specimen? The 'valuable bloodlines' is a little misleadingas ALL pups in a litter have the same dam & sire BUT theoretically could have 100% different bloodlines.

 

[Seraphina]

Sounds like a good way of doing things ........

The good thing about the Swedish Kennel Club's way of doing things, is that it might help some people find potential stud dogs that might otherwise have been overlooked because they have not competed extensively in any field. They might still carry valuable bloodlines and qualities.

That's brilliant .......So many people use the top winner's but over look litter mate's, or well bred dog's that would tie in .......

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That is very good, because it lists EVERYBODY, it is an official record. However K9 is not in position to compile anything which would be complete and impartial.

By the way; what is wrong with "home made website"? Obviously, everybody think their dog is good, and if somebody asks about using their dog for stud, nobody is going to say; " you better go to X he is better than mine", now are they?

Lida