Stud Dogs

[Paws123]

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I can remember in the late 80's 3 or 4 bully's been lined and the pups were all okay ....

Wonder what the off spring odds would be lining a none ped bully bitch to a none ped bully dog ... Ive never hear of it ever been done ...but one think to remember is "what looks good on paper, doesn't always work in reality"

 

[bertha]

There is a difference between a "bully" carrying the mutation gene for producing huge over muscling and cross breeding whippets with a bull terrier or staffie. People advertise bull cross greyhounds, and they mean pit bull, not a way to go as the temperament can be iffy.

 

[Paws123]

There is a difference between a "bully" carrying the mutation gene for producing huge over muscling and cross breeding whippets with a bull terrier or staffie. People advertise bull cross greyhounds, and they mean pit bull, not a way to go as the temperament can be iffy.

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sorry should of made my post a bit more clearer..i mean none ped whippet bulls

 

[wild whippies]

I would expect if you lined bully to bully the offspring would be bully. The chromsomes pair with each other, what else would they pair with if all there is to pair with is the mutation?

All the above examples have proven is that 2 become one and scruffy do not have the single mutation gene. As scruffy is half greyhound, this is perfectly feasible and I've been informed that both Scruffy and 2 become one produce leggy svelt dogs in character. In fairness if you know for sure your dog doesn't have the single allele there's no reason why you wouldn't want to line with a bully whippet. Spider's Lady has clearly demonstrated that it is beneficial.

The lining's I would be particularly interested in is Bully X's where there's been one bully pup within the litter. If this has happened that it would demonstrate there's more coming into play than the 2 alleles alone.

I'm not sure if people are understanding what I'm saying about the genotype so I've added the image below.

+/+ no myostatin mutation allele

mh/+ one myostatin mutation allele - the ''fast'' dog

mh/mh both myostatin mutation alleles - the 'bully' whippet

Copyright of PLos journal.

The diagram below may also be useful in my explanation.

 

[rob67]

 

 

No-one (to my knowledge) would line a bully whippet because

1. Generally, the dogs increased muscle mass equates to a heavier weight and dogs end up 'out classed' in our weight racing handicaps.

2. In order for a bully whippet to come about, it has to possess the recessive genes on both sides, if this was lined to a non-ped (that had the single mutation) then offspring would have a high likelihood of being bully.

I know a none ped bully that was breed a few years go Marjo ( Another so x mad return) x Scruffy (ice princess x Maddison) litter produced no bully's

List of Saplings

ROLO

ROSEANNA .

Think the rest went to pet homes...

As for abnormalities and genetic problems in breeding of any kind of breed i am sure the percentage of problems are more in one breed from another ...so if we are introducing a high percentage of greyhound blood then surly our whippets would be inheriting the abnormalities and genetic problems that they may carry.

I know several if not more greyhound lines that are proving to carry increased chances of Heart Disease's also bone abnormality's.

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Seems like ti might be a minefield to decide what to breed with...................prob no one answer, but maybe a bit more thought going into it might be good. I know it's a bit hypocritical considering the mishap we had...................but at least it's increased the diversity of the gene pool !!

chris

 

[rob67]

I would expect if you lined bully to bully the offspring would be bully. The chromsomes pair with each other, what else would they pair with if all there is to pair with is the mutation?All the above examples have proven is that 2 become one and scruffy do not have the single mutation gene. As scruffy is half greyhound, this is perfectly feasible and I've been informed that both Scruffy and 2 become one produce leggy svelt dogs in character. In fairness if you know for sure your dog doesn't have the single allele there's no reason why you wouldn't want to line with a bully whippet. Spider's Lady has clearly demonstrated that it is beneficial.

The lining's I would be particularly interested in is Bully X's where there's been one bully pup within the litter. If this has happened that it would demonstrate there's more coming into play than the 2 alleles alone.

I'm not sure if people are understanding what I'm saying about the genotype so I've added the image below.

+/+ no myostatin mutation allele

mh/+ one myostatin mutation allele - the ''fast'' dog

mh/mh both myostatin mutation alleles -  the 'bully' whippet

Copyright of PLos journal.

The diagram below may also be useful in my explanation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Read this link last time it was put up and it does explain in a plain way (for nuggets like me) what your'e talking about. And it does make sense to think about it more than we do now.

chris.

 

[wild whippies]

There is a difference between a "bully" carrying the mutation gene for producing huge over muscling and cross breeding whippets with a bull terrier or staffie. People advertise bull cross greyhounds, and they mean pit bull, not a way to go as the temperament can be iffy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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They looked at bull breeds and failed to find the mutation so I think it's fair to say the 2 breed 'types' are totally unrelated.

However, I find it very very odd that bully whippets display characteristics of bull type dogs, e.g. the staff. Bully whippets will often sit in a side squat and 'laugh' like Staffs. Whether this is coincidence or done because of the dogs physique persuading it to exhibit such characteristics remains to be seen.

Not only that but where DNA samples of Bull / Staffodshire terriers were acquired from may also be of relevance, that being that Kennel Club bred dogs may have also lost this mutation, just like pedigreee whippets have.

 

[Paws123]

I would expect if you lined bully to bully the offspring would be bully. The chromsomes pair with each other, what else would they pair with if all there is to pair with is the mutation?All the above examples have proven is that 2 become one and scruffy do not have the single mutation gene. As scruffy is half greyhound, this is perfectly feasible and I've been informed that both Scruffy and 2 become one produce leggy svelt dogs in character. In fairness if you know for sure your dog doesn't have the single allele there's no reason why you wouldn't want to line with a bully whippet. Spider's Lady has clearly demonstrated that it is beneficial.

The lining's I would be particularly interested in is Bully X's where there's been one bully pup within the litter. If this has happened that it would demonstrate there's more coming into play than the 2 alleles alone.

I'm not sure if people are understanding what I'm saying about the genotype so I've added the image below.

+/+ no myostatin mutation allele

mh/+ one myostatin mutation allele - the ''fast'' dog

mh/mh both myostatin mutation alleles -  the 'bully' whippet

Copyright of PLos journal.

The diagram below may also be useful in my explanation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yes jac's Ive read up on it ... but with out some one actually lining bully to bully how do we know for definite all the offsping would all be bulls.. on paper it looks that way , but i am not convinced :blink:

As for my post pointing out the litter of Marjo ( Another so x mad return) x Scruffy (ice princess x Maddison) ..it was only in reference to your post -"No-one (to my knowledge) would line a bully whippet because..ect "

 

[whippeteerThe1st]

I would expect if you lined bully to bully the offspring would be bully. The chromsomes pair with each other, what else would they pair with if all there is to pair with is the mutation?All the above examples have proven is that 2 become one and scruffy do not have the single mutation gene. As scruffy is half greyhound, this is perfectly feasible and I've been informed that both Scruffy and 2 become one produce leggy svelt dogs in character. In fairness if you know for sure your dog doesn't have the single allele there's no reason why you wouldn't want to line with a bully whippet. Spider's Lady has clearly demonstrated that it is beneficial.

The lining's I would be particularly interested in is Bully X's where there's been one bully pup within the litter. If this has happened that it would demonstrate there's more coming into play than the 2 alleles alone.

I'm not sure if people are understanding what I'm saying about the genotype so I've added the image below.

+/+ no myostatin mutation allele

mh/+ one myostatin mutation allele - the ''fast'' dog

mh/mh both myostatin mutation alleles -  the 'bully' whippet

Copyright of PLos journal.

The diagram below may also be useful in my explanation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

going by picture,s on chart i might have a B mh/+ dog is that good or should i be worried ???? i know my old man had a bully whippet that he raced kizzy a.k.a ( hamshank ) it could run brilliant pet and also did the bends

 

[wild whippies]

I know several if not more greyhound lines that are proving to carry increased chances of Heart Disease's also bone abnormality's.

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Something which is a far bigger concern than any bully whippet and something which we should keep a close eye on.

I have been collecting data with regards to bone fractures within non-ped racing but it's in it's early days and there's a mass of variables to consider in gathering such info. There are some commonalities though especially relating to age, why it may be obvious, having documented info may be a worthwhile guide when it comes to rules being instigated on what age a puppy must be before it can run.

 

[Paws123]

I know several if not more greyhound lines that are proving to carry increased chances of Heart Disease's also bone abnormality's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Something which is a far bigger concern than any bully whippet and something which we should keep a close eye on.

I have been collecting data with regards to bone fractures within non-ped racing but it's in it's early days and there's a mass of variables to consider in gathering such info. There are some commonalities though especially relating to age, why it may be obvious, having documented info may be a worthwhile guide when it comes to rules being instigated on what age a puppy must be before it can run.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Thats quite interesting , because Ive been doing a study on tibia crest fractures too for some time now , with-in our none ped breeding program ie parents .. and a common problem is not the bones area , but an actual muscle in the hind quarter that under developers between a pup and its growth -age -months

Will share my findings if you would like to see them

 

[wild whippies]

going by picture,s on chart i might have a B  mh/+ dog is that good or should i be worried ????  i know my old man had a bully whippet that he raced kizzy a.k.a ( hamshank ) it could run brilliant pet and also did the bends

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No you shouldn't in my eyes. I know or suspect of several dogs sleeping in the other room that also have it.

It's only a possible concern if you consider the bully whippet to be a disaster in any offspring produced. Certainly your father didn't and neither do I. :thumbsup:

For one, you don't know for sure if your dog does have the single mutation and secondly the mutation is a recessive gene.

 

[whippeteerThe1st]

going by picture,s on chart i might have a B  mh/+ dog is that good or should i be worried ????   i know my old man had a bully whippet that he raced kizzy a.k.a ( hamshank ) it could run brilliant pet and also did the bends

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

No you shouldn't in my eyes. I know or suspect of several dogs sleeping in the other room that also have it.

It's only a possible concern if you consider the bully whippet to be a disaster in any offspring produced. Certainly your father didn't and neither do I. :thumbsup:

For one, you don't know for sure if your dog does have the single mutation and secondly the mutation is a recessive gene.

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:thumbsup:

 

[wild whippies]

Thats quite interesting , because Ive been doing a study on tibia crest fractures too for some time now , with-in our none ped breeding program ie parents  .. and a common problem is not the bones area , but an actual muscle in the hind quarter that under developers between a pup and its  growth -age -months
Will share my findings if you would like to see them

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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If you have substantial findings and a proven hypothesis, then you need to share this with us all, especially if it's been done over a long time as it should be less effected to variables and have some consistency. :thumbsup:

My own data collection is meerly an audit ( I am the audit facilitator for our unit at work- bet Chris thinks I'm a right mug!) :lol:

It is by no means research as changes and experimentation with hypothesis would need to be carried out for it to be such. All I would hope to do was show any commonalities (if there was any) and share this info. Whether anyone would wish to make changes would be entirely up to their discretion.

 

[Vicky]

It's very interesting Dee that you're "studying" tibia crest incidents in youngsters. I'd be interested in anyones findings of recurring toe problems and see if they point in the same direction i think they do.

 

[rob67]

Thats quite interesting , because Ive been doing a study on tibia crest fractures too for some time now , with-in our none ped breeding program ie parents  .. and a common problem is not the bones area , but an actual muscle in the hind quarter that under developers between a pup and its  growth -age -months
Will share my findings if you would like to see them

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

If you have substantial findings and a proven hypothesis, then you need to share this with us all, especially if it's been done over a long time as it should be less effected to variables and have some consistency. :thumbsup:

My own data collection is meerly an audit ( I am the audit facilitator for our unit at work- bet Chris thinks I'm a right mug!) :lol:

It is by no means research as changes and experimentation with hypothesis would need to be carried out for it to be such. All I would hope to do was show any commonalities (if there was any) and share this info. Whether anyone would wish to make changes would be entirely up to their discretion.

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I think it's a fab thing to do Jac............certainly you're no mug! Might need to pick your brains tho!!! For a fee of course......( robs lemon drizzle cake do!!)

Anything that can help the sport and the dogs is invaluable if you ask me ( would do a thumbsup by have knacked my comp and the smilies dont work :- ( )

chris

 

[Tony Taylor]

Non ped whippets as a type are to some degree all "abnormal" in that their phenotype or body shape isn't what would be called the wild type; That is they are substantially different to their original decendants.. This difference is due to specific genes, an example of which is the "bully" gene which keeps cropping up since it confers an advantage. However it's clear to me that there are other similar genes that cause the difference between Ghds and whippets and the more of the genes that are present the more whippet like the dog is, in that a 17lber will have more of the "whippet" genes than a larger dog.

There are a number of abnormalitie present in the non ped type some which confer advantage such as reduced size and light build others that are less welcome. Some of the problems may be related to advantageous genes being homozygous, ie being doubled up as in the bully whippet and some are possibly going hand in hand with genes that confer an advantage in some way. If you produce a dwarf light built animal maybe this increases the possibility of problems related to weakness in other areas.

It's hard to discuss openly problems in the non ped whippet without pointing the finger at certain dogs, especially certain stud dogs but the faults are unlikely to be spontaneous mutations IMO.

 

[LVernon]

The litter sister to our Mini Ginny was more bully than her (Ruby's Choice) Ruby's Choice was mated to Cracked It, and as far as I'm aware there were no bully's in the offspring.

"More bully" I understand is genetically an impossibility. They are or they aren't. I know there are differences in how it expresses itself (more or less extreme) but the dog is affected or it is not.

The concern if we keep breeding for the "faster" carriers is we are eventually going to get in a bit of a jam with fewer non-carriers to go to. Less choice is a bad thing.

In many litters the non-carrier is as good or better than the carrier. I personally don't think the carrier status is directly related to speed, although the trait is in most very fast lines. It's a bit like saying black dogs are faster. There were some very fast black dogs, they were bred to frequently, the result would be more black dogs.

Louanne