That's the last straw!

[Steve Morris]

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Are you sure that you are really relaxed at those moments? If he feels your excitement or anxiety - it may trigger his.

Thanks. Yeah, we're pretty chilled and never do anything to upset him. We move slowly and make quiet reassuring words. The only time we allow ourselves to become excited is sometimes when we laugh at his funny antics during playtime. His fetch is superb and he loves gentle tug of war. His 'drop it' is coming along, and he can leave a treat for 10 seconds now on 'leave it'.

We've had endless sessions of calming, where we feed him treats on the floor and he allows us to touch him without play biting in the settled position, even his paws. But as soon as he's in play mode or coming back from a small walk, or even if we try to stroke him without treats, his play biting is full on and he withdraws his paws. Most frustrating to watch the groomer have him on her knee and stroking him in a relaxed manner.

 

[DixD]

I think you kind of explained it in your last sentence. The groomer was relaxed, stroking him (which is a kind of meditative” (non) action (you usuLly do that sort of thing when your mind’s blank, which is why it’s usually rhythmic. Kind of like lulling a baby to sleep, which, at his age, he really still is.

Although your training sounds calm, you’re actually expecting a lot from him at his age, like the “leave it”. It’s something you’re asking of him. Like sending him to school already. You’ll know that clicker training is based on rewarding actions that the dog offers you, which is why it’s so effective. The dog soon picks up, if it tries something, it may get a reward, so that, if, for example, he gives you a sit off his own bat, and you immediately C&T for it, he’ll soon pick it up, as he’s thought of it himself, and then you can eventually name it, and fade the clicker. This is a whole different action from you asking for a behaviour and then treating it. I’m not sure how you came to the “settled position”, if the pup offered it or not, but I’d imagine you would want to get the settled behaviour well installed before connecting it with anything else. He will be a very bright puppy and the temptation is to encourage his intelligence, but he is still a baby.

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[JudyN]

I think also it might be better to back off with the affection and let him approach you when he wants contact. And then just pet him a little, stop, and wait to see if he asks for more. There's some videos out there on 'consent to pet'. I haven't time to find one right now - they should be easy enough to find but be aware you might find some rather dodgy ones (as opposed to doggy ones) in the process....

I wouldn't worry too much about understanding why he's different with the groomer. It is what it is.

 

[Rinkydinkydo]

Being calm,confident with minimum fuse as always worked for me. Sometimes I think we over complicate things and read too much in to stuff.

 

[DixD]

Maybe you’ve never had a complicated dog, Rinkydinkydoo...

 

[Steve Morris]

I think you kind of explained it in your last sentence. The groomer was relaxed, stroking him (which is a kind of meditative” (non) action (you usuLly do that sort of thing when your mind’s blank, which is why it’s usually rhythmic. Kind of like lulling a baby to sleep, which, at his age, he really still is.

Although your training sounds calm, you’re actually expecting a lot from him at his age, like the “leave it”. It’s something you’re asking of him. Like sending him to school already. You’ll know that clicker training is based on rewarding actions that the dog offers you, which is why it’s so effective. The dog soon picks up, if it tries something, it may get a reward, so that, if, for example, he gives you a sit off his own bat, and you immediately C&T for it, he’ll soon pick it up, as he’s thought of it himself, and then you can eventually name it, and fade the clicker. This is a whole different action from you asking for a behaviour and then treating it. I’m not sure how you came to the “settled position”, if the pup offered it or not, but I’d imagine you would want to get the settled behaviour well installed before connecting it with anything else. He will be a very bright puppy and the temptation is to encourage his intelligence, but he is still a baby.

.

Thanks. He loves his short training sessions and wags his tail the whole time.

He always comes to our feet and settles. So we treat him to stay and enjoy being touched, and he does. Touching him when he's not distracted by treats, though, and he starts play biting. We've backed off a lot on that.

But coming in from a short walk he doesn't like being touched for some reason, and if his feet are muddy we have to wipe them, then the problem starts. We've tried just about everything, going slow, treats galore.

 

[Steve Morris]

Being calm,confident with minimum fuse as always worked for me. Sometimes I think we over complicate things and read too much in to stuff.

We've had dogs before and we are very calm. But finding difficulty getting mud of paws in this terrible weather has presented a real problem. There's a balance between being too forceful and creating a phobia, over being too timid and allowing him to run mud all over the house.

 

[merlina]

Well we've had four cockers (big hairy feet) and not one liked having paws touched. It takes a long time to get the current one to allow some cleaning- then he has to be in the mood. Remember one of the things that dogs fear is having a foot bitten/ injured by a a pack member. No foot means no food means starvation to the ancient canine brain. Also the thing about them being better behaved for others is common. Our corgi x is good for the vet and not for us. Simple: he's out of his element and even more intimidated.

 

[Finsky]

We've had dogs before and we are very calm. But finding difficulty getting mud of paws in this terrible weather has presented a real problem. There's a balance between being too forceful and creating a phobia, over being too timid and allowing him to run mud all over the house.

What if you have watering can full of water...pour it on hard surface near your home and let your pup walk through it to clean worst off from its paws rather than physically touching them?

 

[DixD]

I wonder if it’s got anything to do with footshape. It’s a thing I’ve never thought of before, as muddy feet, which our little dog always has, don’t bother me. I just let it all dry naturally, and he puts up with nail clipping, and gets loads of praise and treats for doing so. But, the sighthounds, over the years, have never bothered, perhaps because their foot is a lot more open. I’m always picking beech nut things out between Hugo’s pads, and he just stands like a horse getting his feet picked out, without a care in the world.

 

[Rinkydinkydo]

What if you have watering can full of water...pour it on hard surface near your home and let your pup walk through it to clean worst off from its paws rather than physically touching them?

That what I do with any of my dogs that don't like their paws wiped. I spray clean water on to get the mud off. In fact, in the end I did it with them all. Less hassel and the picky dogs were happy. 5 dogs done in the time it took to do 2 paws

 

[Steve Morris]

What if you have watering can full of water...pour it on hard surface near your home and let your pup walk through it to clean worst off from its paws rather than physically touching them?

Yeah, thought about getting a tray outside with water on it, then throwing a towel on the floor for him to walk through. He actually scratches at a towel, so it might work. The groomer didn't need to think up devious plans though.

 

[DixD]

You’ve got a “thing” about this groomer!