The Most Dangerous Bit Of Racing?

[Joanna]

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Interesting to hear about the dislocaled toes, as our Laika Angel dislocated a rear foot toe at Ragley Hall - we assume at the finish.  I put it back and we didn't race her for three weeks - although I did walk her and she did have some free running.We raced at Stanborough's Peters Green track at the weekend and had no trouble.

I'm not sure about the watering of the finish - soft going should help but can it be proved that less injuries occur in wet weather.

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I am so sorry Rob, I had no idea this occurred..How did we miss it ? Typical of Mrs "On Another Planet and it's better there".

I was thinking about this today, and I think watering the end a week before racing is NOT enough. It has to be consistent AND thorough if it is going to make a difference. Ragley Hall was a fab day out, but the end was short, short, short!

These are OPEN CLASS DOGS reaching speeds of in excess of 30 MPH. Perhaps we should get a scientist involved to give some insight into the risk of injury over the stopping distance...............Who remembers their Highway Code? Stoping distance at 30 MPH/ 75 feet. How much do we give a whippet?

As was pointed out 12 months ago, what I know about whippet racing you could write on the back of a postage stamp, but this is about compassion for a pet, you don't need knowledge or experience for that, just an empathy for an animal and a degree of common sense.

 

[Garry Comber]

On following this thread I remembered an article I read in the whippet news some time back so I dug it out, it’s from December 2000 no 451 page 19. In which Audrey Johnson reports on a meeting she attended in South California run by the South California Whippet association:

“Two things I liked about the racing was the lure always had a “squeaker” tied to it. This sounded very real as it went along, encouraging the dogs, especially those who chase rabbits.

Also at the end, three or four pieces of fur or rag were tied at distances of bout every yard. Therefore, the winner made for the farthest piece and the last in, instead of being in danger of hitting the winner who had probably stopped, made for the last piece of rag. This staggering system stopped all the dogs piling into each other at the end of the race.”

I’m not saying this is what we should do but I thought it would make an interesting contribution to this thread and an insight on how people try to insure their dogs finish safely.

 

[Strike Whippets]

That's really interesting Garry :cheers: me dear ........ as for longer run offs Carmel.....this would at least stop the sudden impact injuries that are done at speed as a) the dogs would be slowing and b) they would end up together, so no slow ones smashing in from behind .......but you then will be looking at a different set of injuries IMO .......the dogs will end up catching the slowing lure and will be stooping to pick it up .....we'd be looking at more whiplash/neck injuries and shoulder injuries .....really its swings and round-abouts ......but this is just my opinion .....Still like the idea of the teddies though

 

[Mark Roberts]

the dogs will end up catching the slowing lure and will be stooping to pick it up .....we'd be looking at more whiplash/neck injuries and shoulder injuries .....really its swings and round-abouts

I agree

the lure driver can slow the lure gradualy but keen dogs are still going to hit it full pelt as unfortunatly dogs dont understand the concept of stopping gradualy.

 

[Joanna]

the dogs will end up catching the slowing lure and will be stooping to pick it up .....we'd be looking at more whiplash/neck injuries and shoulder injuries .....really its swings and round-abouts

I agree

the lure driver can slow the lure gradualy but keen dogs are still going to hit it full pelt as unfortunatly dogs dont understand the concept of stopping gradualy.

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So why have a run off at all, isn't the purpose of it to act as a runway where the dog can reduce speed before stopping? I will disagree with you on that point Mark as I have had experience of the sudden stop twice this year and a double somersault on both occasions was the result. I consulted a chiropracter after the first episode to ensure Fynn's neck was OK, but what we actually found was a very bad mis-aligned pelvis. Her view was this was from dogs slamming into him (in the races just prior to our visit he had been first on the lure and had to sustain three other dogs colliding with him.

I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think we should a. Peat the end of the track, it makes the stop too sudden b. Stop the lure dead for the same reason as above.

I can only go on my personal experience which isn't vast and is anecdotal and gained from what I have observed since we started racing 4 years ago.

However, I think it is good to debate a subject and hear all views without getting into a row. Well done to Rob for bringing up the issue.

 

[Judy]

I have to agree that slowing the lure doesn't slow the dogs that are truly chasing it. They run just as fast until they catch it. The purpose of the run off is surely to keep the lure moving so that the back dogs don't slow up before the line and change the result of the race.

 

[Joanna]

Perhaps we should just put the whippets in protective body armour with crash helmets then (now there's a picture conjured up in my head)! Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if at some point animals in sport are required to have protection in the same way as humans are (w00t)

 

[Strike Whippets]

I have to agree that slowing the lure doesn't slow the dogs that are truly chasing it. They run just as fast until they catch it. The purpose of the run off is surely to keep the lure moving so that the back dogs don't slow up before the line and change the result of the race.

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That's my limited understanding as well .........Really I guess if the dogs were hunting as a pack and going in for the kill, there would be no gradual slowing and there would be dogs going over, somersaulting etc ....... I know my lot do this when they have been on live :- " .......Still doesn't mean we shouldn't soften and peat the finish .....I personally think the Indies pick up is the best I've seen when its been dry (even if I was wearing white :lol: ) .......but I still like the idea of the teddies and splitting the finishers ..... :b

 

[Mark Roberts]

The purpose of the run off is surely to keep the lure moving so that the back dogs don't slow up before the line and change the result of the race.

exactly Judy.

 

[marion]

Great discussion.

I feel that the difficulty lies in the dogs different responses to the end of the race!

Jade does a lazy circle and run's home to mama.

No injuries.

Jay-J stops dead and is hit by other dog's.

ouch, or if other dog get's there first. does lazy circle, with a bit of barking, and comes home to mama.

Yeh! no injuries.

Jasper hits the lure hard!! Don't care who is there or where the lure goes or slow run off or in bales or what!!

Don't care if small monkey tied to back os guy cooking burgers two meter's to left of lure or teddies raining from sky!!! lol

Hit it hard and hit it fast.

I think body suits is as good an idea as any other!!

some kind of non compressable foam.

and we could just catch them as they bounce past us!

big butterfly nets i feel!!

Sorry nothing of any value to add but as i said a great issue for discussion :cheers:

 

[June Jonigk]

An overwatered finish worries me, as I think the dogs nails sink in and hey presto a sprung toe A watered finish needs to be done a day or two before, but finding someone who is willing to go to the track and do it is another matter :- "

There seem to be pros and cons to most ideas, but the squeaky lure with extra bits of fur sounds good. My Dangermouse used to go for the knot in the string and leave the furry bit to the others - well she's so small she only needed a little bit :lol:

 

[IanGerman]

Nice topic Rob, and a subject that has interested me ever since I became involved in the sport. The greyhound solution of course is to speed up the lure so that it gets out of sight around a bend, and throw a rag on the track to distract runners. Not possible in our sport unless we race on grehound tracks, or build a mini one with our lottery winnings.

This is my idea of a possible solution. I fully expect seasoned racers to be violently against it, as they seem to be with any proposed change (sorry, to be a cynical sod, but experience has normally proved this) However, on the basis that if you don't try then nothing is achieved - here goes.

A lure garage at the pick up. A box with a door (2 doors on my illustration, but maybe 1 would work if hinged at the top) the lure string runs through the box. The door or doors would be open for the running of the race, but slammed shut as the lure goes through the triggering device, which could be wire or cable with a fairly solid hoop attached. The lure would need one of those boat fenders of a larger dimension than the triggering hoop, and of course the lure driver would need to be on the ball with the brake, to prevent the back of the garage being taken out! The outside of the doors would be padded with thick foam, just in case we have a nut-case running, but provided the lure was far enough ahead of the pack by the pick up, the dogs should see the lure disappear, and the door(s) shut behind it. I theorise that the box needs to be about 6 feet in length, but testing will determine that.

It sounds a bit Heath Robinson - and it is - but then so is most of the equipment we use - and there are a lot of resourceful people out there. I'm sure someone could knock up a prototype in fairly short order *looks at Dave Woollett* come on Dave, you know you want to!

Anyway - for what it's worth I have attached a drawing in Excel format - read it and weep

lure_box.xls

 

[Vicky]

As most of you know we don't race peddies but non peds, where they are going in some cases at the finish an extra 10mph faster than the peds, imo slowing the lure up at the end achieves nothing and again only imo if anything would speed your dogs up at the finish. Someone did make a good point in that the greyhound tracks speed the lure away at the finish, as long as this is done a distance after the line then yeh i agree 100% this does slow them down, at Highgate where a large majority of our bend races are this season, the lure now shoots away into a tunnel and a teddy is thrown for the dogs, i find my dogs dont go for the teddy, as after all they are trained from an early age to chase that lure but whilst the hare is pulled away from them the teddy being thrown in is a distraction that slows them down that little bit more.

I don't know how much of a stopping distance you have on your straights but the sandpit finishes seem to work on the tracks of ours that have them, alternatively running a dog in the height of summer you really need peat / sand / water at the finish if for nothing else but the stoppers. Sand in their eyes just isn't really an issue, they get this when you take them free running at the beach.

 

[marion]

(w00t)

Heather's Harry Won The Final Today!!! :cheers:

 

[IanGerman]

(w00t)
Heather's Harry Won The Final Today!!! :cheers:

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And that's the Dangerous Bit of Racing?

 

[Joanna]

Nice topic Rob, and a subject that has interested me ever since I became involved in the sport. The greyhound solution of course is to speed up the lure so that it gets out of sight around a bend, and throw a rag on the track to distract runners. Not possible in our sport unless we race on grehound tracks, or build a mini one with our lottery winnings.
This is my idea of a possible solution.  I fully expect seasoned racers to be violently against it, as they seem to be with any proposed change (sorry, to be a cynical sod, but experience has normally proved this) However, on the basis that if you don't try then nothing is achieved - here goes.

A lure garage at the pick up. A box with a door (2 doors on my illustration, but maybe 1 would work if hinged at the top) the lure string runs through the box. The door or doors would be open for the running of the race, but slammed shut as the lure goes through the triggering device, which could be wire or cable with a fairly solid hoop attached. The lure would need one of those boat fenders of a larger dimension than the triggering hoop, and of course the lure driver would need to be on the ball with the brake, to prevent the back of the garage being taken out! The outside of the doors would be padded with thick foam, just in case we have a nut-case running, but provided the lure was far enough ahead of the pack by the pick up, the dogs should see the lure disappear, and the door(s) shut behind it. I theorise that the box needs to be about 6 feet in length, but testing will determine that.

It sounds a bit Heath Robinson - and it is - but then so is most of the equipment we use - and there are a lot of resourceful people out there. I'm sure someone could knock up a prototype in fairly short order *looks at Dave Woollett* come on Dave, you know you want to!

Anyway - for what it's worth I have attached a drawing in Excel format - read it and weep 

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I can see the theory, I would love to see it in practice.

It is a similar idea to that used on the practice GH track, chuck a box over the lure as it whizzes around the straight. Perhaps you could trial it Ian? I'll lend you a hound or two if you can do visits to clubs in the South :thumbsup:

 

[Mark Roberts]

The problem with the box idea is unlike Greyhound tracks that can whisk the hare away from the dogs and a box be placed over saftly most whippet tracks havnt the run off long enough or a lure caperble of pulling the lure away fast enough to allow a box to saftly be placed over the lure.

on top of that most greyhounds once the thing they are chasing has gone from sight stop running unlike whippets who will in all probability hit the box like a train trying to find what they were chasing?.

then the next cry would be "my dogs hit a box at such & such a track and broke its leg"

 

[Joanna]

It doesn't seem to be a problem Mark, the dog's have slowed on the run off, and do look for the lure, and have a dig at the box, but they don't hit it as it is out of reach by the time they get there. as you say, speeding the lure will be the most challenging problem. I would love to see Ian's idea though. It is good to try out new ideas. I do believe that we should endeavour to facilitate change for the better, you can't do that if no-one is willing to trial a different approach.

 

[Strike Whippets]

The problem with the box idea is unlike Greyhound tracks that can whisk the hare away from the dogs and a box be placed over saftly most whippet tracks havnt the run off long enough or a lure caperble of pulling the lure away fast enough to allow a box to saftly be placed over the lure.on top of that most greyhounds once the thing they are chasing has gone from sight stop running unlike whippets who will in all probability hit the box like a train trying to find what they were chasing?.

then the next cry would be "my dogs hit a box at such & such a track and broke its leg"

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You are right Mark .....Look at the difference in Greyhounds and Whippets on live ......The Greyhound stops at the hedge whereas a Whippet goes flat out through the hedge ......I personally think a box placed over the lure even if its been whisked well away from a bunch of Whippets would be very dangerous .....Whippets really do have terrier blood in them unlike the Greys ......

 

[~elizabeth~]

on top of that most greyhounds once the thing they are chasing has gone from sight stop running unlike whippets who will in all probability hit the box like a train trying to find what they were chasing?.
then the next cry would be "my dogs hit a box at such & such a track and broke its leg"

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That's right, most of them show no interest in the lure once it's stopped whether it's boxed or not. With whippets I think it depends on the individual dog, mine are like the greyhounds and aren't that interested in the stationary lure, whereas others would head straight for where they thought it had gone. It's difficult to compare on the greyhound track as they're usually running longer distances and are slowing more at the end than they would be after a shorter distance on the straight. :unsure:

If anyone wants to put this to the test, Geoff's running trials at the Bicester track from 3.00pm on Wednesdays, starting tomorrow, and 9-12 on Sunday as usual :thumbsup: