The RIGHT thing to do!

[Robins mum]

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I'm very, very, sad I love my dog almost more than life, but am I being selfish and stupid to keep him?

After an unexpected move from one county to another, we found ourselves in an area that was NOT as dog friendly as they indicated the area was! Sounds, great on paper, countryside, canal and towpaths, mostly agricultural, loads of walks!

Well, yes and no! if you have a poodle, or a cockapoo or a retired greyhound that is happy to walk at your side - then yes! great place! If you have a junior delinquent Borzoi, things are very different! Take the tow path as just one example, great for sure - when the public remember to shut the gates! - Oh, yeah and when there are no narrowboats around with c a t s' on board - but not onboard they roam freely, oblivious of the pending hound about to spring from potter potter to full throttle in a nano second, straight down the towpath at best, at worst up a verticle wall or down a verticle wooded area! Although perhaps leaping aboard some unsuspecting narrowboat owners pride and joy! Now what else? oh yes, mostly agricultural, does not mean that there is no livestock a field away, or in every other field for a few miles, might be the other side of the towpath - but hey, ho, its' only a Borzoi we are talking about - they look pretty with their long flowing locks, they couldn't possibly swim across or even paddle across the canal could it?! - Errm YUP! Oh yes! Then their is the Heron, and the baby ducks - and please don't forget the swans who absolutely dislike him with vennom! Then there is the wonderful wildlife nature reserve! Sounds fairly safe doesn't it? Well it is until the newly arrived sheep are let to graze just on the otherside of the River Tern with not even a fence post to be seen inbetween them and the innocent looking young dog!

It goes on and on! He had so much freedom in Cornwall, was able to really stretch his legs out every single day. I feel so wicked. Please don't suggest any of these little 'safe' play areas for dogs, they just are not exciting enough for him and most certainly not big enough! Plus the only one in our area has the dreaded cattle on the other side so we would be banned within 5 minutes for sure, the next nearest one ( an hour away) cannot guarantee if their might be cattle on the other side of the fence or not! great!

Robin is getting so frustrated, I just don't know what to do for the best! I'm strongly thinking he would be better off with someone else in a more appropriate surrounding, it'll break my heart but because I love him so much I will do what is right and safest for him.

All thoughts will be greatfully received - oh and just one other point! He is a sneaky little boy! When walking off the lead ( as much as is safe (ish) ) if he wants to go one way (e.g. down some steps off the towpath or up over the bridge) I can mostly dissuade him from going once, but the sneaky little so and so will have his walk then shoot off completely ignoring me to stop, sit, stay, noooooooooo!!!! Rooobbbbiiiiin nooooooo! and is flat out charging down the middle of a road where he could not only cause a serious accident, but could get splattered! He always returns fairly quickly, but it isn'[t safe for him to go - and please don't go down the keep him on the lead route, nor tie him to my waist - not viable!

Thanks!

 

[Tinytom]

My friend had borzois....she maybe able to give you some advice ...if you would like message me your email address and I will pass it on to her ..xx

 

[Tinytom]

Have forwarded your email ....xx

 

[Robins mum]

Thanks! We had a good evening today also! He stayed at my side with the cat he chases next door but one, on the opposite side of the road going in the same direction! He clearly wanted to leave, (Robin did) but he did not pull and he remained with me we managed to pass the cat at around 100 feet! Unheard of before today! Still hoping for the best but expecting the worst!

 

[JudyN]

Did you give him lots of rewards for being good? J used to throw himself around at the end of his lead if he saw a cat, but in time he learnt to control himself - when he did I pretty much threw a party and told him he was the best, cleverest, smartest dog in the world.

 

[Robins mum]

I most certainly did! He was good again this evening with the cat he has chased twice already to the extent that the poor cats owners have now got a 6' perimiter fence! ( with a little hole the pussy can go back and forth!) The cat was only yards away from us, and frozen in time! I gently tugged Robins head in the other direction and asked him to come with me. (several times) he barely missed a beat although he was constantly turning his head to watch the cat, but I'm over the moon and we returned home safely tonight too! I'm not sure he will be the same tomorrow, one day at a time! However it has lightened my heart in what is such uncertain future!

 

[Robins mum]

I think, we are getting somewhere (possibly, maybe!) Ha Ha! He has on several occasions looked and not reacted! However it seems that when he controls himself once, the next occasion is simply too much for him to bear and he is double whammy! H took off at 1000mph a couple of days ago, leads snatched right out of my hands (thankfully!) - Robin returned in 2 minutes again at 1000 mph! missing me by a hair! and sat by my side! Oh God you've gotta love him! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[DebbiesDogs]

It sounds like you're walking him off leash and don't have a solid recall or ability to instruct him to ignore something...

Get a long line and walk him on the leash. You can get 50m lines which is plenty of freedom, but the control of stopping him from going after livestock, cats and waterfowl.

 

[Robins mum]

It sounds like you're walking him off leash and don't have a solid recall or ability to instruct him to ignore something...

Get a long line and walk him on the leash. You can get 50m lines which is plenty of freedom, but the control of stopping him from going after livestock, cats and waterfowl.

Thank you for your reply. Do you have any knowledge of the Borzoi ? There are many points that I could comment on here, but one of the biggest things is that long lines are dangerous, I feel very strongly that they should be banned but that is my personal opinion. I wonder if anyone has a solid recall in reality? Robin is probably about as good as it gets for a junior (entire male) Borzoi, and yes I do walk him off the leash because if I didn't he would go mad! Even on the leash Debbie it is not possible for one person to hold him! For example, he spent 4 days back with his breeder who said he would 'train him for me' All his years and years of breeding Borzoi one would expect him to be more than capable would you not? So I go and collect Robin 4 days later (I had actually asked the breeder to care for him while I had to go do something) So I'm standing in the garden waiting for Robin to appear from the breeders back garden he comes out very quietly through the gate then catches sight of me and the breeder knew what it was like to fly through the air with the greatest of ease! Finally Robin pulled the leash away from his grasp and leapt all over my head! The breeder was fine! So if a strong man cannot hold him I have no chance do I!

Also, 'don't have ability to instruct him to ignore something ...' I was rather saddened at this comment! I'm not completely clueless! This is a real dog, not a little pug on the end of a piece of string! He is powerful, fast, wilful and independant! This is the breed type, they are top of the tree of sight hounds, he has amazing Sight, sound, and scent awareness, he is young and VERY playful, that is all he wants to do.

Thank you for your time to give your thoughts and comments.

 

[DebbiesDogs]

Thank you for your reply. Do you have any knowledge of the Borzoi ? There are many points that I could comment on here, but one of the biggest things is that long lines are dangerous, I feel very strongly that they should be banned but that is my personal opinion. I wonder if anyone has a solid recall in reality? Robin is probably about as good as it gets for a junior (entire male) Borzoi, and yes I do walk him off the leash because if I didn't he would go mad! Even on the leash Debbie it is not possible for one person to hold him! For example, he spent 4 days back with his breeder who said he would 'train him for me' All his years and years of breeding Borzoi one would expect him to be more than capable would you not? So I go and collect Robin 4 days later (I had actually asked the breeder to care for him while I had to go do something) So I'm standing in the garden waiting for Robin to appear from the breeders back garden he comes out very quietly through the gate then catches sight of me and the breeder knew what it was like to fly through the air with the greatest of ease! Finally Robin pulled the leash away from his grasp and leapt all over my head! The breeder was fine! So if a strong man cannot hold him I have no chance do I!

Also, 'don't have ability to instruct him to ignore something ...' I was rather saddened at this comment! I'm not completely clueless! This is a real dog, not a little pug on the end of a piece of string! He is powerful, fast, wilful and independant! This is the breed type, they are top of the tree of sight hounds, he has amazing Sight, sound, and scent awareness, he is young and VERY playful, that is all he wants to do.

Thank you for your time to give your thoughts and comments.

Just because I have a pug doesn’t mean I haven’t worked with other dogs.

no, I wouldn’t expect the breeder to be able to deal with much more than puppies.
Yes I do know the breed and yes, as a working breed they CAN be instructed to leave things. In fact, when trained correctly they are much better behaved than pugs because as a breed they exist to work and that means following instructions unlike companion breeds which are bred to be doted on rather than actually think. But yes, do something that isn’t working, ask for advice, get advise you don’t like and then say it’s bad advice. Doesn’t bother me, but I’m the one who takes untrained dogs and gets them to follow instructions and you’re the one with a dog that ignores you.

also, when used correctly a long line is no more dangerous than any other leash. If you stick an untrained dog on a long line and let them run full throttle then yes, it’s dangerous. If you use a long line and actually work on walking together as a team and are active about how much is used when, then no… they’re not dangerous. What is dangerous 100% of the time is letting a dog off lead who doesn’t listen and bothers livestock and waterfowl. And if you let your dog do it enough you’ll soon be faced with one of the countrysides most formidable dangers… an angry farmer with a gun protecting their livestock from an out of control dog. But yes… off lead with no solid training… totally fine! You do you I suppose.

 

[Robins mum]

Just because I have a pug doesn’t mean I haven’t worked with other dogs.

no, I wouldn’t expect the breeder to be able to deal with much more than puppies.
Yes I do know the breed and yes, as a working breed they CAN be instructed to leave things. In fact, when trained correctly they are much better behaved than pugs because as a breed they exist to work and that means following instructions unlike companion breeds which are bred to be doted on rather than actually think. But yes, do something that isn’t working, ask for advice, get advise you don’t like and then say it’s bad advice. Doesn’t bother me, but I’m the one who takes untrained dogs and gets them to follow instructions and you’re the one with a dog that ignores you.

also, when used correctly a long line is no more dangerous than any other leash. If you stick an untrained dog on a long line and let them run full throttle then yes, it’s dangerous. If you use a long line and actually work on walking together as a team and are active about how much is used when, then no… they’re not dangerous. What is dangerous 100% of the time is letting a dog off lead who doesn’t listen and bothers livestock and waterfowl. And if you let your dog do it enough you’ll soon be faced with one of the countrysides most formidable dangers… an angry farmer with a gun protecting their livestock from an out of control dog. But yes… off lead with no solid training… totally fine! You do you I suppose.

Ha ha! Thanks for making me laugh! I don't let him near stock, of course not, but the risk of him chasing them remains as he is so strong! Mix that with the speed of reaction to not only sight, but smell and sound, the volocity is tremendous! Daniel ( the breeder) shows them, and has always got around 10 of his own, he is an international judge so he does know his dogs.

I get that you have to deal with numpties on a daily basis - I do not class myself as one of those! You did recognise the dangers of inexperienced thoughtless humans using long lines - I have had horses for 50+ years so am used to using them on horses who are volatile also!

Robin knows what he should do, there is no doubt about that! His manners are for the majority of the time impecable.

HOWEVER he remains at the junior stage of his life! He is a young dog that enjoys play! He simply cannot help himself! He is not unusual for the breed at all! He is like his father and his grandfather for that!

Oh, yes and one more point - re the trained dog on a long line - should you perhaps mention firstly that the human should be trained first!? Because lets face it - it never is about the animals is it! I hope that all my previous posts brought that fact to the fore, it is not Robin that is wrong, it is that there is knowledge somewhere, that I am lacking! THAT is why I joined this group - for help for myself! They have all been top tottie, and I am grateful to each and every one for their input and suggestions!

 

[Ross J]

Can’t say that I have any problems with our Borzoi,We take our dogs on a old railway line which they have turned into a cycle,walk path,,River on one side,it’s about a 3 minute walk from our house,then up on the top fields where part of the colliery was ,where we let them off the leads, We have taken them to secure fields we have a few near us..So maybe we have just been lucky with ours,,We have a cat as well,never bothers the cat,,not saying won’t bother anyone else’s cat,,and there a few in our street.Just preserve,give him treats for being good.

 

[JudyN]

Whatever breed/type of dog we have, sometimes that dog has not read the breed characteristics, or what training should work for them, or anything about how dogs are meant to behave - so trainers, breed owners, etc., should never assume that someone who has a 'challenging' (in whatever sense) dog isn't doing it right.

The mark of a good trainer/behaviourist is to step back, look at the individual dog, and question what is going on with that dog, and that owner, and be prepared to think outside the box of what their knowledge till now has told them. Cookie-cutter approaches may work on most dogs, but by no means all. That's not to say that what the owner is doing can't be improved on - on the contrary, they need help to understand their dog, and to learn how to train/manage the dog, more than someone with a more 'standard' dog.

 

[Robins mum]

Can’t say that I have any problems with our Borzoi,We take our dogs on a old railway line which they have turned into a cycle,walk path,,River on one side,it’s about a 3 minute walk from our house,then up on the top fields where part of the colliery was ,where we let them off the leads, We have taken them to secure fields we have a few near us..So maybe we have just been lucky with ours,,We have a cat as well,never bothers the cat,,not saying won’t bother anyone else’s cat,,and there a few in our street.Just preserve,give him treats for being good.

Thank you Ross,

I never had all this trouble with my previous Borzoi, although she did jump after a cat once and pulled me over! LOL!
The key point you mentioned quite honestly is 'dogs' pleural! I think that is where all the trouble lies! Lockdown puppy that has been very poorly socialised due to owners being afraid their dogs will get hurt by Robin! He is the most gentle dog on this planet I think ! I have taken a baby bird from him totally unscathed, as I have a squirrel! There are very limited SAFE areas for him to run, as you know they can traverse a 10 acre field in a few seconds! so it is very hard finding safe areas! That is why I have to take so many risks with him! To endeavour to keep him safe because if he does not have freedom he bottles it all up and becomes dangerous to me and himself! If I could afford another dog I would get one! Even a miniature would do! But sadly they have to eat, so that is a no go! H really does try to do as requested, and I noticed this morning that he was the other side of the play field chatting up a spaniel on a lead, and I called him THREE times! The reason he did not follow me was because everytime I called him I turned my head to see if he was following me and at that split second he was checking in to see if I was staying! Timing! all about TIMING!

Anyway he is the best dog I have ever had and I love him to bits! I shall continue as I am and fingers crossed we will both come out of this puppy/junior delinquent stage in one piece!

Thanks for your input!

 

[Robins mum]

Whatever breed/type of dog we have, sometimes that dog has not read the breed characteristics, or what training should work for them, or anything about how dogs are meant to behave - so trainers, breed owners, etc., should never assume that someone who has a 'challenging' (in whatever sense) dog isn't doing it right.

The mark of a good trainer/behaviourist is to step back, look at the individual dog, and question what is going on with that dog, and that owner, and be prepared to think outside the box of what their knowledge till now has told them. Cookie-cutter approaches may work on most dogs, but by no means all. That's not to say that what the owner is doing can't be improved on - on the contrary, they need help to understand their dog, and to learn how to train/manage the dog, more than someone with a more 'standard' dog.

Words of wisdom as always! JudyN, you are always stable and with such eloquence are always able to put things into prespective and NEVER judgemental about our comments or abilities! Thank you for always being supportive! You are a star! J.

 

[JudyN]

Aww, thank you, Robins Mum