Toleit routine

[Shaun Haynes]

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So just to update.  He is quite happy going outside.  In the daytime    and seeing  outside he is having a few accidents in the house when he left  for a few hours  it that more because of his age I tho k and I just tidy theese up and ignore then. However on the past two  to three night I've  put him outside  for up to half an hour and he does nothing but  he  has a wee on the landing floor. It is possible he is scared of the dark. 

 

[JoanneF]

Maybe stay outside with him until he toilets? Or are you doing that already?

 

[leashedForLife]

seconding JoAnne - 
Is he on-leash for every potty trip? --- the last post does not sound as if he is, "leaving him out there for an hour" sounds like solo.

Someone must be with him, to *see* if he voids, what he voids [liquid or solid], how much he voids, & if it's 'normal'... Plus, U gotta be there to reward that pee or poop on the spot, at the time.
U can't let him out alone, assume he's empty, & give him free rein when he comes in, even within one room; if nobody witnessed it, U have to assume he did NOT pee or poop, & is still "loaded".  That means he should be, again, accompanied when out on potty trips - & / or attached to an umbilical & closely monitored by the adult who is wearing him, indoors.

There really aren't any other ways to succeed at house-training - if he's not directly attached to an adult during potty-trips, U simply don't know & cannot assume that he's empty, no matter how long he was LEFT outside - even all day, while U are at work.  He might have pee'd hours ago, & come indoors with a full bladder when U get home.  //   And, of course, if he DID void - U just missed yet-another great opportunity for warm praise & a fantastic tidbit, on the spot, as soon as he rises from his squat / drops his leg.

timing of consequences is key; U can't toss him a goody after he enters the house - that's unconnected to the voiding, for the dog. Dogs need immediacy.  

If mroe than 1 person is involved in potty-training, a single-page log for potty-trips is needed - columns for who [initials], time, liquid / solid, volume, & any comments [soft, mild constipation, blood tinge in urine, plastic bits in poo, etc].
Hang it on the exit door, the refrigerator, an eye-level cupboard, etc.
  - terry
 

 

[Shaun Haynes]

 I always go with him so  i can watch and praise once he done it.  Or at least wait  by the back  doors (garden side as I only have a small garden and can always see where he is  ).When I say he left for couple hours I mean inside  like when I go to shops or something like that  And no he isn't going the umbical method as    there sound like plenty of people  who have never done it and had success after looking a few forums  plus   .  His hand shyness is getting better he went up to visitor  to the house and complete stranger to him and actually let them touch him 

This morning he was actually wining at the back door after this breakfast  so we let him out he had poo straight away and  also when i woke up we went  out and he had a wee straight away so he must know what do out there and be learning.... im gonna try and leave  luminate the dog bit more tonight see that makes a difference.   If he nervous might not like not being able to see what out there when he  doing to the loo. 

 

[leashedForLife]

... He is quite happy going outside n the daytime    and seeing  [Being? ] outside.

he has a few accidents in the house when... left  for a few hours  it that more because of his age I tho k --- I just tidy these up and ignore them.

However... the past 2 to 3 nights,  I've  put him outside  for up to half an hour & he does nothing --- but  he [pees] on the landing floor.
It is possible he is scared of the dark. 

I mis-read this post, the 1st time; it clearly says, "I put him outside for... a half-hour", not an hour. // Sorry about that.

OTOH, "putting him out for up to 30-mins" certainly isn't going out with him, staying beside him, & having him on leash.
 If U aren't within 6-ft of him, U certainly are not close-enuf to hand him that tidbit, are U?  

 I always go with him so  i can watch and praise once he done it.  

Or at least [ I ] wait  by the back  door (...  small garden, I can always see where he is  ).

When I say he left for couple hours I mean [he's left] inside --- when I go to shops, or something like that  

And no he isn't going the umbical method as    there sound like plenty of people  who have never done it and had success after looking a few forums  plus   .  His hand shyness is getting better he went up to visitor  to the house and complete stranger to him and actually let them touch him 

This morning he was actually wining at the back door after this breakfast  so we let him out he had poo straight away and  also when i woke up we went  out and he had a wee straight away so he must know what do out there and be learning....

i'm gonna try [a light in the garden] tonight, & see if that makes a difference.   If he's nervous, he might not like being unable to see what's out there, when he goes to the loo. 

As the saying goes,  "talk is cheap".   :b

'Praise' does not mean nearly as much to a puppy as food or play - & food is easier & faster to deliver ON THE SPOT, as he rises from squatting & before he takes a step away from his pee / poo.
Praise is nice, but it's not significant - most ADULT dogs have learned to pair verbal praise with other, more-valuable, concrete rewards: food, interactive games [tug, fetch, flirt-pole,...], scritchies of itchy spots, real-life rewards such as being let off leash to play or let out of the car on arrival at a friend's house, etc. // Pups don't have those many, many memories of Great THings Of The Past, all connected to praise.

"always go with him" does not equal "I wait by the back door".  // He doesn't need to be outside for 30-mins; if U are timing his potty trips correctly, U should have results within 5 to at the very most, 10 minutes. He goes out immediately after:
 - waking from a nap
 - active play
 - a meal / a big drink
 - exciting event [visitor, the spouse gets up from sleep, kids home from school, etc]
 - plus EVERY 2 HOURS if none of those happen for  2-hours. // Those 4 things are potential triggers that stimulate the bladder & / or bowel.


I know standing around with a leashed pup is not fascinating, but U don't need to waste 20-mins;  just go to a place he's USED before, wait - & do nothing, no chat with the pup, not playing with him...  be a post. If there are no results in 5-mins, & he's not sniffing & circling, QUIT - take him inside, put him in his crate [assuming U have one], & in 10 to 15-mins, try again.
This is the Ping-Pong Housetraining tactic, & it works very well - he can't make an error, as he's confined indoors when he's not SEEN to void, until he *has* emptied - sooner or later, he must void. Praise & REWARD him, throw a party, be enthused! :cheers:  ... then, & only then, he can be off-leash & supervised  in the house.
Not "he's in one room & the only adult at home is in another" - he's accompanied & monitored. // If U are too engrossed to mind him, crate him - while U cook, write the article on deadline, make that crucial business phone-call, ______ .

Ping-Pong is very simple, & it works - U take him out when he's 'due', give it 5-mins, & either reward success or go back in, wait a bit to try again, & repeat - ad infinitum.
- terry

 

[gypsysmum2]

Yes he may well be scared of the dark. Many dogs are. It means he needs company. Just wander outside and look relaxed. Once he is housetrained you will be able to gradually be less supportive, but for now you will need to be there.

By far the best way to house train is to take the puppy to the garden, after eating, after sleeping, after playing and any time the puppy looks "distracted" and wait for a toilet. Ignore anything other than a toilet. Once the toilet is done the reward must come immediately. This means that the puppy must not even walk towards you to get the reward, you must get the reward into the puppy as the toilet finishes. You will know this is working when the puppy looks for you when it needs to toilet  This means that the puppy wants to toilet outside rather than inside because that is where the treats are given.

Dispense with any paper or puppy pads they just teach dogs to toilet indoors on any absorbent surface.

 

[Shaun Haynes]

We never used paper pads for that reason.  I know im.gonna jinx it but atm on 36 hour  no accident  run so hopefully it carries on 

 

[leashedForLife]

...
If he's not on leash for every potty trip, U are not close-enuf to reward him on the spot - before he takes a step.
 

bold & underline added for emphasis, above.
 

... Once the toilet is done the reward must come immediately. This means that the puppy must not even walk towards you to get the reward, you must get the reward into the puppy as the toilet finishes. ...

Bold again added, for emphasis.   C'mon, Shaun - the pup needs that tidbit right then, & right there, in order to figure out the rules.
- terry
 

 

[Shaun Haynes]

Only need to make  your point once Terry...........

 

[leashedForLife]

@Shaune Haynes -
i'm hoping for some happy updates.  
  - terry