Uk Judges List Criteria

[T Hoare]

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For JoKI think you are a bit mixed.

The Whippet Club of Wales Criteria for the C List is : For aspirant judges who have shown an interest in the breed and have the support of WCofW. I believe the KC wants club/socities to pick from lists but IMO you should judge the breed on several occasions before being put onto a list. This way gaining experience/knowledge of the breed.

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Thanks Tracey - obviously i must be losing it :wacko:

However, as i said - if you are looking for people who have judged on several occasions before putting on list - it is still a catch 22 if the General Open Shows are looking for people off the lists. :thumbsup:

Maybe im not being very clear - wouldn't surprise me! :lol:

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When I say about judging before being put on a list, it is MY preference not necessarily that of WCofW.

To echo Mark like him I too 'served my apprenticeship', be patient Jo, things come to those who wait.

 

[T Hoare]

I'd like to know what you think about the juding criteria in the UK?
Is it too easy, too difficult, about right???

What would you change? 

For people starting out i have noticed a bit of a catch 22 situation - lots of General Open Shows want people on the lists (C and obviously above), but in order to get on the lists, certain numbers have had to have been judged.

It would be interesting to hear your opinions :thumbsup:

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To get on a C list you need to apply to the Whippets Clubs with your involvement in the Breed and other Breeds over a period of time, if the Club thinks that you are genuinely interested in the breed and have attended a breed Workshop I think it is highly likely that you would be placed on the C list. You don't need to be on them all.

Do I think it is difficult? Yes. Should it be? Yes

Maybe this is just me been a little bit one sided, (I had to serve my apprenticeship so should others, kind of attitude) It was always said that you serve about a ten year judging apprenticeship before giving tickets, this seems to be a good average looking at the replies so far.

What is a shame is that when I started Judging you normally got to Judge other Breeds at open shows that gave you more judging experience. This is not likely to be the case now.

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Mark you should be able to judge other hounds, if your not on lists if it is not more than 3 classes, I believe.

 

[jok]

Tracey - this is not impatience - i asked for the experienced persons, such as yourself, opinion on our system (see my first post on this subject)

This is merely to hear opinions and discussion on the subject, not about me! :thumbsup:

 

[T Hoare]

Tracey - this is not impatience - i asked for the experienced persons, such as yourself,  opinion on our system (see my first post on this subject)
This is merely to hear opinions and discussion on the subject, not about me! :thumbsup:

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Sorry my mistake

But if the C list Criteria I put on for WCofW is read, it doesn't actually say that you have to have judged at all.

 

[JAX]

As Mark said , you dont need to be on all Breed club lists , and to get on a C list showing involment in the breed goes along way , We have people who arnt on any whippet lists doing 3 classes at most of our Open shows ,dont we

Just like to add , its so much easier to judge from the ringside

and talk a good talk :wacko:

 

[dawn]

On the KC site there is a pdf of

Advisory Criteria which shows which criteria are set by the KC and which are variable by any particular club. Thus clubs' criteria will vary but the final decision for acceptance onto any list lies with the judges sub-committee for the individual club and not simply meeting criteria.

The SYWC creates a new list every year by requesting a CV from everyone on the 'current' list (other than A1) who wishes to continue into the following year and from anyone interested in being on th SYWC list.

I do know there are breed club lists 'out there' with people who are no longer involved in dogs never mind Whippets on the list eg my ex!!!!!!!!

Mark

Do I recall a letter in the dog press appearing a couple of years (decades) ago from yourself re 'Aspirant Judges'?

BTW if anyone wants a judges CV form for SYWC please pm me although you will not be eligible for the 2008 list as that has been completed.

 

[dolly]

You dont have to be on a list to judge 5 classes of whippets at a general open show, you can apply for a c list before actually judging.

In my opinion i think you should have at least 5 years of experience in the breed before accepting your first judging appointment (duck and run for cover). That dosent mean 5 years showing, just experience. Also wait to be asked, every week i get CV's sent to me as secretary of a general open show, ASKING for judging appointments, i have a very speical place for those :- "

I think the A2 in principle is a good idea for BREED SPECIALISTS, however i think it is very unfair that allrounders can clock up another breed without having to judge a large number of whippets.

 

[Gill Andrew]

I started showing whippets in 1978 - had my first judging appointment in 1993, have campaigned 7 of my pets to their stud numbers and am still nowhere near giving tickets thank goodness!!!

I never ever have touted for a judging appointment and to be honest, I think that those people who pester secretaries for appointments are a bit of a pain. Just my opinion thats all.

I agree with Dolly that is does seem a bit unfair that allrounders can keep on clocking up breed after breed without having to gain the experience that a breed specialist is required to have.

Gill

 

[*Mark*]

On the KC site there is a pdf ofAdvisory Criteria which shows which criteria are set by the KC and which are variable by any particular club. Thus clubs' criteria will vary but the final decision for acceptance onto any list lies with the judges sub-committee for the individual club and not simply meeting criteria.

The SYWC creates a new list every year by requesting a CV from everyone on the 'current' list (other than A1) who wishes to continue into the following year and from anyone interested in being on th SYWC list.

I do know there are breed club lists 'out there' with people who are no longer involved in dogs  never mind Whippets on the list eg my ex!!!!!!!!

Mark

Do I recall a letter in the dog press appearing a couple of years (decades) ago from yourself re 'Aspirant Judges'?

BTW if anyone wants a judges CV form for SYWC please pm me although you will not be eligible for the 2008 list as that has been completed.

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Flipping heck! that was such a long time ago I can't even remember the content, It might of been the Catch 22 because it frustrated me at the time!

Or possibly the fact that I updated my CV each year to the Breed Clubs Judges list and then I was told by one club memeber from one club that I was pushing myself forward too much!!! I really don't remember it must be about ten years ago now at least.

 

[anniewhippet]

:- "

I'd like to know what you think about the juding criteria in the UK?
Is it too easy, too difficult, about right???

What would you change? 

For people starting out i have noticed a bit of a catch 22 situation - lots of General Open Shows want people on the lists (C and obviously above), but in order to get on the lists, certain numbers have had to have been judged.

It would be interesting to hear your opinions :thumbsup:

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I think the basic criteria is about right although, as already said, the breeds clubs vary slightly in their requirements ie number of dogs, classes etc although they do have to follow a blueprint as set out by the KC.

 

It is possibily about right.

 

I tend to agree with some other posts, I have a problem with the fast tracking or the A2 format, for 'all rounders' especially, as I still believe in the 'apprentice' served as I believe you then have a totally rounded education.

 

I agree that some shows like to take a judge from a list, even C listed, and sometimes this presents a catch 22 situation in that some clubs like to see you judge before appointing you to to a list. But again this was covered earlier, some shows are happy to 'give you a start' which then enables you to apply! Other clubs will put you on a list on your experience so far.

 

As to judging other breeds at an Open Show, if you have some experience in your own breed you are often offered small class numbers in another breed (s), although I must admit this happened more in years gone by. :- " :b

 

[quintessence]

Regarding all-rounders. In days of old there were lots of all-breed Sanction and Limited Shows which were judged by just the one judge. This gave judges the opportunity to go over many more breeds of dogs than they do now and I think you ended up with a good all-round knowledge of dogs.

 

[doris]

Just like to add , its so much easier to judge from the ringside 





and talk a good talk  :wacko:

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Ha! (w00t) :lol: :- "

 

[Windsdream]

You dont have to be on a list to judge 5 classes of whippets at a general open show, you can apply for a c list before actually judging.
In my opinion i think you should have at least 5 years of experience in the breed before accepting your first judging appointment (duck and run for cover). That dosent mean 5 years showing, just experience.  Also wait to be asked, every week i get CV's sent to me as secretary of a general open show, ASKING for judging appointments, i have a very speical place for those :- "

I think the A2 in principle is a good idea for BREED SPECIALISTS, however i think it is very unfair that allrounders can clock up another breed without having to judge a large number of whippets.

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So thats what you done with my C,V. (w00t) Only jokeing.

Looks like i will be about 80 then, by the time i get to judge. :- "

 

[anniewhippet]

Regarding all-rounders.  In days of old there were lots of all-breed Sanction and Limited Shows which were judged by just the one judge.  This gave judges the opportunity to go over  many more breeds of dogs than they do now and I think you ended up with a good all-round knowledge of dogs.

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I do agree with this, these shows were a great training ground for up & coming Judges and also for bringing out a youngster, not too much pressure on either. :thumbsup:

I do think its good that we still have some breed club Limited shows & we are lucky here to have a few C.S's running all breeds ones too. But the sanction show is nearly gone now, a shame as C.S's were able to put these on and make a bit of extra money for their funds, we ran a few evening ones and appointed an up & coming person to judge.

 

[anniewhippet]

You dont have to be on a list to judge 5 classes of whippets at a general open show, you can apply for a c list before actually judging.
In my opinion i think you should have at least 5 years of experience in the breed before accepting your first judging appointment (duck and run for cover). That dosent mean 5 years showing, just experience.  Also wait to be asked, every week i get CV's sent to me as secretary of a general open show, ASKING for judging appointments, i have a very speical place for those :- "

I think the A2 in principle is a good idea for BREED SPECIALISTS, however i think it is very unfair that allrounders can clock up another breed without having to judge a large number of whippets.

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So thats what you done with my C,V. (w00t) Only jokeing.

Looks like i will be about 80 then, by the time i get to judge. :- "

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ah, am sure it will before your 80th........... :teehee:

 

[Windsdream]

You dont have to be on a list to judge 5 classes of whippets at a general open show, you can apply for a c list before actually judging.
In my opinion i think you should have at least 5 years of experience in the breed before accepting your first judging appointment (duck and run for cover). That dosent mean 5 years showing, just experience.  Also wait to be asked, every week i get CV's sent to me as secretary of a general open show, ASKING for judging appointments, i have a very speical place for those :- "

I think the A2 in principle is a good idea for BREED SPECIALISTS, however i think it is very unfair that allrounders can clock up another breed without having to judge a large number of whippets.

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So thats what you done with my C,V. (w00t) Only jokeing.

Looks like i will be about 80 then, by the time i get to judge. :- "

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ah, am sure it will before your 80th........... :teehee:

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Ahhh ok then 79. :blink:

 

[aslan]

No written exams are necessary at all?

In Australia we have to pass written exams as well as all the other pre-requisites such as experience in the breed etc.

We have to do an entrance exam on anatomy and the CCC (Qld) rules, plus having all the other stuff (breeding, showing etc) under your belt before you are accepted to become a trainee judge. Then you have to do written exams on the standards of the breeds from your chosen groups. (You can do a single breed as I have - but most people do whole groups at a time). IF you pass the written exam you then you must do a Hands-on exam where you judge a number of dogs from a few breeds from your chosen group in front of a panel of three senior all-breeds judges, and if you pass that, then you are put on the list (which is published to all CCC members at the start of each year). Then you wait for (or ask for) appointments at OPEN shows. You have to rack up certain numbers of dogs before you can apply to become a champ show judge. Once given champ show status you can judge at champ shows and award CC's.

Single breed (specialist) licences are a bit different in that because it's your breed and you have a long involvement with it once you've passed your entrance exam (written) and your breed exam on the standard (written) and a hands on exam you go straight to CH Show status (for that breed only obviously).

That's the procedure in Qld - and I think it's pretty similar in all states of Australia - I will be corrected if I am wrong there.

That's the only thing I would change about the UK system (even though I'm not involved in it!) - but I think people should know the skeletal structure and dentition of a dog and should know their own breed standard inside out and also demonstrate that they know the rules of the system and ring procedures.

 

[Ridgesetter]

Interesting topic. Over the years, I've been a show secretary for several breeds and I can only the UK system in my experience, appears the most difficult for judges.

We approach judges only to find out that they are licenced for Open Shows only. I particularly remember one judge who was not licenced to issue tickets (not whippets) but we did end up receiving a letter form the KC stating that the judge was approved to issue challenges certificates / tickets.

From the Aussie point of view, we don't have the breed numbers that you have in the UK so we need 'all rounders'. Therefore, UK judges are a problem for us. It's a lot of money to bring them out and we can't subcontract them to other shows. Consequently, we only tend to see UK judges at breed specialty shows whereas many of our large all breed shows have judges from all over the world.

Being the devil's advocate here, does years of experience in the breed really make you a good judge? :- "

Cheers

 

[~JO~]

You dont have to be on a list to judge 5 classes of whippets at a general open show, you can apply for a c list before actually judging.

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I had heard that this has been reduced to 3 classes?! anyone know if there is any truth in this - as only 3 classes in whippets is quite rare so would be even harder to get those first few appointments :- "

I judged my first open show show last year after 5 years showing whippets and throughly enjoyed myself although as Jax said it is much easier from the ringside!! I'd hate to 'fast-track' through to giving tickets, slow and steady and learning lots as you show, spectate and do a few judging appointments is the way to go IMO

 

[T Hoare]

You dont have to be on a list to judge 5 classes of whippets at a general open show, you can apply for a c list before actually judging.

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I had heard that this has been reduced to 3 classes?! anyone know if there is any truth in this - as only 3 classes in whippets is quite rare so would be even harder to get those first few appointments :- "

I judged my first open show show last year after 5 years showing whippets and throughly enjoyed myself although as Jax said it is much easier from the ringside!! I'd hate to 'fast-track' through to giving tickets, slow and steady and learning lots as you show, spectate and do a few judging appointments is the way to go IMO

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Because we are in Stud band E it is 5 classes.