Vets are no help but how can I help her?

[Tova]

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This seems to be a recurring issue every spring/summer. My girl is suddenly off her food one morning, vomitting clear-yellow bile, eating excessive amounts of grass and has a horrible sounding tum. This usually goes on for a few days and then she starts popping mucus and blood.

Last year they gave me antibiotics for a week but a month later it happened again. Latest bout was only two weeks ago and this morning she's doing it again. When I called the vet two weeks ago she told me if she ok in herself to do bland diet and consider supplementing her diet with Yui digestive.

I did as she said, she's had Yui digestive a few times over the week, has seemed fine until this morning.

I thought maybe she was going off her food because she was being fussy so late last year I switched her over to raw. She's been so excited about it everyday, had no issues so I know it's not her being fussy that's caused her to stop eating.

Any ideas on what it could be? Our vet seems to have no idea at all. I'll be blitzing the garden tomorrow so she'll at least be able to use the back but no walks because as I said all she wants to do is eat grass and that seems to make it worse.

 

[JudyN]

I'm wondering if eating grass is the cause rather than the effect. A lot of dogs take to munching grass in the spring/summer when it is fresh and juicy, and seemingly delicious, and then it can come out the other end in a big lump.

I would do what is necessary to stop her eating grass as far as possible and see if this seems to fix the problem. My dog wears a muzzle for other reasons and it makes it harder for him to eat grass, so you might want to try that - it should be an open, basket-style muzzle that she can drink and pant through (even if that means she can nibble a few bits of grass). My dog's 100% happy wearing his muzzle and accepts it just as I accept wearing shoes - we can give you info on muzzle training if you want to go down that route.

 

[Tova]

Hi, thanks for the reply.
I tried with a muzzle last year for weeks using chicken treats through the basket to get her to rest her face into it. I did this everyday, several times a day for 5mins in different locations around the house for weeks. Purposely left it lying around and taught the command 'muzzle on' for her put her face in. However she was frightened to death of it.

I also tried fastening the clip around her neck like a collar, unfastening, treating ect. She'd let me do one or the other maybe twice in a row before she'd run away so I gave up.

She's like that with coats, her harness she wears for walks, anything different around the house. I've had a crate since September and she's only just started to venture into it on her own.

I'll absolutely have another go but don't know how well the outcome will be.

 

[Finsky]

Oh blimey..that does sound worrying and yet, it is something that certainly most of my dogs have experience and each time there has been either different reason for it or I haven't been able to pin point anything particular that could be at fault. And yes, they do look so sorry for themselves.
Dogs pick up all sorts of stuff from the ground even if they don't actually eat anything particular.
You mentioned it is happening 'seasonally'. That makes me think that it could be something that causes upset/irritation from nature...maybe it is some particular pollen or other type of particles?
If there is no other pattern to it than being 'seasonal'..the cause it virtually impossible to find out..it is like 'needle in the hay stack' situation.
Although the effect is alarming to us, as it is something that does pass through within few days...I am tempted to say...just bare it and let her clear it out.
I have opposite theory as I have seen this happening with mine numerous times..the grass eating can be her way of helping the situation...so I would let her and maybe even take her to somewhere where the grass is cleaner and less trampled. Yes, it does make the situation seem worst, but it is the 'medicine' what dogs eat to make themselves sick to get rid of what is causing the issue. I have particularly noticed that when they do this to make themselves sick, they rather pick some particular type of grass, but if that is not available....anything goes They can be very selective that the plant they choose have particular texture to it.
It is like when we have upset tummy, we loose appetite and we keep off from food so we don't feed the harmful tummy bugs. Dogs take that little further and make themselves to bring up every little bit out.. making the bacteria to starve and die.
As she is bringing up yellow bile..it means her tummy is now truly empty. Providing she drinks water and has some body weight to loose...the short period she is 'fasting' to make herself better is not going to do her harm. If her blood sugar dips really low during this short starvation time, you can mix little glucose powder into her water, it will quickly boost her and make her feel better, so much so that she might want to attempt to take little food.
As she start finding her appetite again...start with very small amounts of food, in a little and often manner and no rich food so that her tummy slowly settles back to holding the food down....and keep her off from dog treats, those can be deceivingly rich and not necessary easy to digest.
It might be that this particular girl is bit more tummy sensitive for something, or her gut bacteria is not strong enough to deal with some seasonal bacteria.
It might be helpful to start giving her some 'tummy friendly bacteria supplements' in more routinely manner. It could help to prevent this in future or lessen the impact

 

[Tova]

Oh blimey..that does sound worrying

Thanks for the reply. I put her some broth down this morning and she hasn't drunk it. Being sick again right now. It looks pink this time, I know she's on raw but last time she ate was last night at 6pm and her first vomit was clear today. Think I'm going to give the vets a ring, she's not vomitted pink bile before so I am a little worried the situation, whatever it is, is getting worse each time.

 

[Tova]

Tried to upload a pic but it's saying an error, but it's pinky/brown.

 

[Finsky]

Oh blimey..that does sound worrying and yet, it is something that certainly most of my dogs have experience and each time there has been either different reason for it or I haven't been able to pin point anything particular that could be at fault. And yes, they do look so sorry for themselves.
Dogs pick up all sorts of stuff from the ground even if they don't actually eat anything particular.
You mentioned it is happening 'seasonally'. That makes me think that it could be something that causes upset/irritation from nature...maybe it is some particular pollen or other type of particles?
If there is no other pattern to it than being 'seasonal'..the cause it virtually impossible to find out..it is like 'needle in the hay stack' situation.
Although the effect is alarming to us, as it is something that does pass through within few days...I am tempted to say...just bare it and let her clear it out.
I have opposite theory as I have seen this happening with mine numerous times..the grass eating can be her way of helping the situation...so I would let her and maybe even take her to somewhere where the grass is cleaner and less trampled. Yes, it does make the situation seem worst, but it is the 'medicine' what dogs eat to make themselves sick to get rid of what is causing the issue. I have particularly noticed that when they do this to make themselves sick, they rather pick some particular type of grass, but if that is not available....anything goes They can be very selective that the plant they choose have particular texture to it.
It is like when we have upset tummy, we loose appetite and we keep off from food so we don't feed the harmful tummy bugs. Dogs take that little further and make themselves to bring up every little bit out.. making the bacteria to starve and die.
As she is bringing up yellow bile..it means her tummy is now truly empty. Providing she drinks water and has some body weight to loose...the short period she is 'fasting' to make herself better is not going to do her harm. If her blood sugar dips really low during this short starvation time, you can mix little glucose powder into her water, it will quickly boost her and make her feel better, so much so that she might want to attempt to take little food.
As she start finding her appetite again...start with very small amounts of food, in a little and often manner and no rich food so that her tummy slowly settles back to holding the food down....and keep her off from dog treats, those can be deceivingly rich and not necessary easy to digest.
It might be that this particular girl is bit more tummy sensitive for something, or her gut bacteria is not strong enough to deal with some seasonal bacteria.
It might be helpful to start giving her some 'tummy friendly bacteria supplements' in more routinely manner. It could help to prevent this in future or lessen the impact

And to add....it is truly important that when she finds her appetite back, do not allow her to fully feast and satisfy her appetite!!! She will be hungry but too quickly, too much and too rich food is recipe to the condition to repeat itself again..even if she feels well enough to start eating, her tummy is not ready for it yet.

 

[JudyN]

It's a shame she doesn't like the muzzle - if you do want to test the 'grass = cause' hypothesis I guess it'll be a case of being careful where you walk. But Finsky could well be right in thinking that there's a different cause.

Often, when dogs bring up yellow bile first thing it is because of an empty tummy, and a bedtime snack can remedy it. But hr symptoms show there is something else going on. I hope you get to the bottom of it.

 

[Tova]

Thanks guys. I hope so too!

 

[Finsky]

Thanks for the reply. I put her some broth down this morning and she hasn't drunk it. Being sick again right now. It looks pink this time, I know she's on raw but last time she ate was last night at 6pm and her first vomit was clear today. Think I'm going to give the vets a ring, she's not vomitted pink bile before so I am a little worried the situation, whatever it is, is getting worse each time.

Ok...when her digestive system in under attack....giving her raw is not best possible option. I would cook it slightly so any bacteria in the food is killed. For her to able to deal with raw food she will need her digestive system to be in working order. Think of her recovery diet as 'baby food' …small pieces/ minced/ blended and easily digestible.
I would put few spoonfuls into pan with little water and heat it through so the colour changes before giving it to her...you could add spoonful of mushed up banana there too to give her blood sugar a little rise. If she eats that....then wait and see how things progress.
Yes, I would take her to vets to be on the safe side....and if possible take a sample of her bile or the photo if the sample is not available anymore.

 

[Finsky]

It's a shame she doesn't like the muzzle - if you do want to test the 'grass = cause' hypothesis I guess it'll be a case of being careful where you walk. But Finsky could well be right in thinking that there's a different cause.

Often, when dogs bring up yellow bile first thing it is because of an empty tummy, and a bedtime snack can remedy it. But hr symptoms show there is something else going on. I hope you get to the bottom of it.

Yes, I have noticed with my girls that when they are on raw food, they seem to digest their food quicker and the 2 small meals are not enough keep them going for 24 hrs. It is like their tummy's are on 'speed' When they get really hungry and their tummies are empty, that can make them bring up bile....and then the fun starts
So mine have now settled that they tend to have 2 meals and 'something' for night time snack + something to chew during the day too.

 

[Tova]

Yes, I have noticed with my girls that when they are on raw food, they seem to digest their food quicker and the 2 small meals are not enough keep them going for 24 hrs. It is like their tummy's are on 'speed' When they get really hungry and their tummies are empty, that can make them bring up bile....and then the fun starts
So mine have now settled that they tend to have 2 meals and 'something' for night time snack + something to chew during the day too.

Sorry think we've got a bit confused. She hasn't eaten today and won't be going back on the raw for the time being. If anything it will be bland chicken, rice or potato. I was saying that being on raw you get blood but her last raw meal was yesterday so for her to vomit pink bile as if it had blood in is concerning since her first vomit this morning was clear.

I'll be taking her to the vets this evening, earliest I can get there. I have the photo and the blanket if they need it.

 

[JudyN]

Let us know how you get on

 

[Tova]

Let us know how you get on

No more vomitting after 11am this morning, perked up this afternoon, had a few ice cubes and wanted to run around. I called vets back as wasn't sure I was going to be able to get there at six as planned, (was waiting on a ride). They said same they always say which is what I thought would happen anyway. Keep an eye, bland diet, digestive pills, off the grass as much as possible. Any change ring back and they'll rush her in. Might need antibiotics and a shot if she's still off.

I was actually thinking earlier that the pills I was told to give made her very gassy, she was popping more, clearing her out I suppose. Wonder if that's somehow sped the process along. But then can't be sure as she's always munching bits of grass.

+ I'm not sure if transitioning her back and forth from bland to raw is doing her any favours right now. I'm being very careful about what I feed her anyway, too high fat doesn't agree with her so it's been a long/slow process. But if her digestive system is comprised is raw such a good idea? She doesn't seem to be having any problems + are the digestive pills having any impact on her on raw?

I don't expect you to answer any of these by the way haha. I'm just ranting. Everyone has a different opinion, most vets disagree on raw, the FB group I'm on prefer all natural

Well looks like we'll be staying in a few days lounging like the rest of the world atm. Hope you guys are staying safe during this time and aren't struggling with anything since everyone's gone mad! Thanks for all your help this morning

 

[Finsky]

No more vomitting after 11am this morning, perked up this afternoon, had a few ice cubes and wanted to run around. I called vets back as wasn't sure I was going to be able to get there at six as planned, (was waiting on a ride). They said same they always say which is what I thought would happen anyway. Keep an eye, bland diet, digestive pills, off the grass as much as possible. Any change ring back and they'll rush her in. Might need antibiotics and a shot if she's still off.

I was actually thinking earlier that the pills I was told to give made her very gassy, she was popping more, clearing her out I suppose. Wonder if that's somehow sped the process along. But then can't be sure as she's always munching bits of grass.

+ I'm not sure if transitioning her back and forth from bland to raw is doing her any favours right now. I'm being very careful about what I feed her anyway, too high fat doesn't agree with her so it's been a long/slow process. But if her digestive system is comprised is raw such a good idea? She doesn't seem to be having any problems + are the digestive pills having any impact on her on raw?

I don't expect you to answer any of these by the way haha. I'm just ranting. Everyone has a different opinion, most vets disagree on raw, the FB group I'm on prefer all natural

Well looks like we'll be staying in a few days lounging like the rest of the world atm. Hope you guys are staying safe during this time and aren't struggling with anything since everyone's gone mad! Thanks for all your help this morning

There is nothing wrong giving her 'mixed' type diet. It doesn't have to be case of raw vs. cooked.
Mine don't like texture of some raw cuts, like liver, so some things I cook and chop into their raw mince. Also I sometimes include bit of cooked sausage or wet dog food ..the sausage particularly for those days when their normal raw mix is not going down very well (they get bore easily with their food)
And as I have two dogs, they have their individual food preferences too, to get them both eat same grub that they prefer eating from same plate, I need to give them variety...and yes, one of mine has to be on low fat diet as well.
My vet knows mine is on raw diet and the vet did recommend addition of digestive enzymes to her diet... which type of diet the dog is on doesn't really matter. When the digestive system is compromised or is not working as efficiently as it should, the enzymes do help. Food is food and it has to be broken down to extract the energy and nutrients from it, regardless of its cooked stage or lack of it.

Yeah....ranting is good and we need to vent and yes, with some vets raw diet is still like waving a red flag. 'Ohhhh...handling RAW meat..you MUST do this and that...etc' I often wonder if they don't handle raw meat to cook their own food...they must be terrified to go into butchers! And then they hand you a tin of vetenary food for the dog which has very few ingredients that actually sound edible and suitable for a dog. 'sigh' I don't know....

It sounds to me like you have still lots of experimenting ahead to fine tune what is suitable for your dogs tummy and maybe provide it bit more often too to avoid that sensitive tummy being totally empty...it could be that she is eating grass if she is starting to get hungry again??
As it happens, my younger one last night did have another one of those green eating sessions....but I kind of waited it to happen too. She wasn't happy with the food that was on offer, despite the older one was tucking in with good appetite. Neither did I give them chews etc as I didn't want her to able to pick and choose and she has tendency to eat nothing but the 'nice bits'. So the younger one's tummy was running empty.
When I couldn't get her in from the garden last night...I knew what she was up to and yes, she did throw up some bile and all the greenery. But she would not eat any food that was on offer, I even gave her an extra option but ''NOPE...if there is no chicken wings I ain't eating that!'' (somebody would very happily live with just raw chicken wing 'diet' )
Food was left untouched..she didn't give it even a sniff but she then I did give in and she ended settling down with few 'not so healthy gravy bones' in her tummy.
I think I shall have to make some scramble eggs this morning to give them few tempting bits to add into their basic raw mix. They can't very easily pick the egg bits out without eating some of the mince too....and they tend to like cooked eggs anyway. Only thing is that if they are boiled...they tend to leave the whites and eat only the yolk.
Yeah....endless game of trying to be more clever with their fussy eating habits.
We just have to work out to find what foods will keep our dogs healthy and happy and adjust accordingly...