Walks

[neave]

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i was out with keano today as usaul. Had him off the lead and the man was walking his pug round the park. The man then stood with his dog watching keano with interest only for keano to go running over full pelt to the gentleman dog thinking oh here a doggie for me to play with. However the man didnt see it that way ! he totally panic lifted the pug up in his arms. Mean while keano was still trying to say hello. The man was walking away with keano following him not understanding why the pug didnt want to say hello back. He mutter something to me coouldnt hear what it was. I had to tell the guy to stand still so i could collect keano, but he didnt bother listening to a word i was saying. At the point keano came back to me with tail wagging and togue hanging out. And the guy didnt look at bit happy!

What annoyed me was that the gentleman dog was standing eyeballing keano so of course keano was going to go over and say hello. There was no need for him to react the way he did. next time i see him, he'll prob avoid us like the plague!

 

[Evie]

Sounds like that guy needs a lesson in doggy body language! :wacko:

 

[neave]

he does! what made it worse he kept turning his back on keano which made him want to jump up on him that annoys me :rant: when people do that

 

[~elizabeth~]

You have my sympathies as I've had this happen to me, and Gelert's favourite things in the world are tiny yorkies. :wub: :b Unfortunately their owners don't realise this is the case and I've had the very same thing happen to me, although he has lots of Yorkie friends whose owners have a bit more common sense too.

However, having once had a really tiny dog I would say you have to be alert to other dogs, as a single bite from a big dog can be fatal, and even good-humoured rough play with a bigger dog can result in a nasty bruising if they get jumped or trodden on. Also some large breeds have a prey response to very small dogs, they don't seem to relate to them as dogs. All of which might make some owners of toy dogs a bit over anxious and liable to over react to friendly overtures from unfamilar dogs.

 

[neave]

Yeh Keano can be a but over friendly ! thinks he should say hello to everyone. I think if a seen a whippet running at me at 30 mph i would prob be a bit worried :unsure:

 

[chelynnah]

Unfortunately I'm probably not going to be popular but the problem wasn't this guy, it was you not having control of Keano. I apologise I don't know how old he is, so it's possible you're still training his recall, but how many times do we see on here the other side of the story - people who've had their whippets bitten while their dogs were under control (as this man's dog was) and another loose dog has come up to them with that dog's owners saying "oh they just want to play" and then biting or harassing their dog. If someone does not want your dog running up to them they have every right to that.

And yes, I have been on both sides of this (as I've said before on this forum). I had a dog who would run up to people and dogs and we would have a hard time getting her back. We had to work really hard with her to eventually get a good recall, but in the meantime it was still OUR fault for not having her under control.

If mine are loose and there are other dogs about I call them back to me. Whether the other dogs are loose or not. I make eye contact with the owners, and if we both agree then we'll let them have a play. If they're not responsive to my eye contact then I hold the dogs till they pass. If other dogs are on lead I assume they're on lead for a reason and do NOT let my dogs run up to them. Even though my dogs 'just want to play' THEIR dogs might be aggressive.

Just another take on this.

I do apologise if I'm not showing the sympathy that you were looking for, but I'm tired of dog owners wanting it both ways for their dogs, and it always being the other person's fault no matter what the situation. Why is it OK if it's OUR dog running loose, but not ok when it's someone else's running up to ours? We can't have it both ways. Loose dogs running up to others is not ok whether it's your dog or someone else's.

Wendy

 

[alfyn]

Sorry,but you are in the wrong by not having your dog under proper control!

Having had a dog of mine attacked,believe me,it's very frightening when faced with a strange dog running towards you when you haven't got a clue whether it's freindly or not!

 

[JAXASS14D]

Unfortunately I'm probably not going to be popular but the problem wasn't this guy, it was you not having control of Keano.  I apologise I don't know how old he is, so it's possible you're still training his recall, but how many times do we see on here the other side of the story - people who've had their whippets bitten while their dogs were under control (as this man's dog was) and another loose dog has come up to them with that dog's owners saying "oh they just want to play" and then biting or harassing their dog.  If someone does not want your dog running up to them they have every right to that.
And yes, I have been on both sides of this (as I've said before on this forum).  I had a dog who would run up to people and dogs and we would have a hard time getting her back.  We had to work really hard with her to eventually get a good recall, but in the meantime it was still OUR fault for not having her under control.

If mine are loose and there are other dogs about I call them back to me.  Whether the other dogs are loose or not.  I make eye contact with the owners, and if we both agree then we'll let them have a play.  If they're not responsive to my eye contact then I hold the dogs till they pass.  If other dogs are on lead I assume they're on lead for a reason and do NOT let my dogs run up to them.  Even though my dogs 'just want to play' THEIR dogs might be aggressive.

Just another take on this.

I do apologise if I'm not showing the sympathy that you were looking for, but I'm tired of dog owners wanting it both ways for their dogs, and it always being the other person's fault no matter what the situation.  Why is it OK if it's OUR dog running loose, but not ok when it's someone else's running up to ours?  We can't have it both ways.  Loose dogs running up to others is not ok whether it's your dog or someone else's. 

Wendy

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I totally agree with you here as I have two Shiba Inu who hate other dogs running up to them while out walking , even if it is just to say hello .

 

[kris]

Unfortunately I'm probably not going to be popular but the problem wasn't this guy, it was you not having control of Keano.  I apologise I don't know how old he is, so it's possible you're still training his recall, but how many times do we see on here the other side of the story - people who've had their whippets bitten while their dogs were under control (as this man's dog was) and another loose dog has come up to them with that dog's owners saying "oh they just want to play" and then biting or harassing their dog.  If someone does not want your dog running up to them they have every right to that.
And yes, I have been on both sides of this (as I've said before on this forum).  I had a dog who would run up to people and dogs and we would have a hard time getting her back.  We had to work really hard with her to eventually get a good recall, but in the meantime it was still OUR fault for not having her under control.

If mine are loose and there are other dogs about I call them back to me.  Whether the other dogs are loose or not.  I make eye contact with the owners, and if we both agree then we'll let them have a play.  If they're not responsive to my eye contact then I hold the dogs till they pass.  If other dogs are on lead I assume they're on lead for a reason and do NOT let my dogs run up to them.  Even though my dogs 'just want to play' THEIR dogs might be aggressive.

Just another take on this.

I do apologise if I'm not showing the sympathy that you were looking for, but I'm tired of dog owners wanting it both ways for their dogs, and it always being the other person's fault no matter what the situation.  Why is it OK if it's OUR dog running loose, but not ok when it's someone else's running up to ours?  We can't have it both ways.  Loose dogs running up to others is not ok whether it's your dog or someone else's. 

Wendy

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agree completely.sensible and well thought out post.couldnt have put it better :thumbsup:

 

[~elizabeth~]

Having had a dog of mine attacked,believe me,it's very frightening when faced with a strange dog running towards you when you haven't got a clue whether it's freindly or not!

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Well, wouldn't a good guide be the other dogs behaviour? I've had several attacks too, and I have no problem with free socialising with other dogs unless the other dogs are showing signs of fear or aggression.

If mine runs up to another dog who is off lead, he may run over, but always in an arc, not directly then lies down and shows submissive behaviour and lets the other dog approach him; if they don't then he loses interest and leaves well alone. He's learned good social skills by twice daily contact with a range of other breeds who are walked off lead on our common. The same when I had a tiny dog, toy breeds need socialisation and enjoy polite play and socialisation with other dogs too.

How will dogs ever learn to socialise politely if they don't have daily contact with other well-socialised dogs for Heaven's sake?

 

[chelynnah]

Well, wouldn't a good guide be the other dogs behaviour?

Not always - not all dogs know how to give the proper signals

How will dogs ever learn to socialise politely if they don't have daily contact with other well-socialised dogs for Heaven's sake?

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By socialising them with dogs that you know and/or where you and the owner have agreed to let them be together - not by allowing them to be out of control and willy nilly running up to anything and everything and not being able to get them back if someone makes it clear they do NOT want your dog running up to them.

Wendy

 

[neave]

i wasnt lookin for any symp i was just having a general chat. My dog was not out of control and came straight back to me when i asked as he always does. Keano used to freely play with a pug. and he and i general thought that was the same dog but was out with his other owner. The pug was not scared of keano at all! in fact it was wanting down to play it was the owner who was being a little a bit over the top. Fair enough a whippet running towards you can be a bit daunting to say the least so he picked his dog up, but once he notices that keano was being friendly and not agressive he could of put his dog down As already said how are dogs meant to learn to socialize if they are not aloud to have a play?. At NO point did keano bark or growl. If a strange dog has come into the park and it is on or off the lead and walks near to where i have keano off the lead i always put him back on as i dont know how that dog will behaves towards a dog who is off the lead. Keano will only run up to dogs and the owner if he knows them hence the reason why he ran up to that pug thinking it was his friend Cliford!

In fact there was a lady walking beside us with a boxer i have no idea who she was and keano was off the lead and he wasnt bothered by the dog . Maybe i didnt explan myself clearly. All i was trying to say was the gentle man didnt have to lift his dog up in his arms! they've got 4 legs dont they and ever time a dog comes over to say hello to his dog he can't continue to do that either. His dog is not scared of other dogs nor is it unfriendly otherwise it would have barked at keano. All dogs have to learn to mix. And if the gentle man didnt want to be near other dogs then why did he stand a few meters away from me watching my dog knowing that there was a chance that that keano would come over and try to say hello to his dog, it is a big park with pently of walking places. Just like you said wendy i give the owner plently of eye contact but he didnt say anything to me. I understand where you are coming from but i dont like being made out that am a irresponable owner. I maybe young but am not stupid my dads been in whippets for over 30 years, my uncle is an ex police dog handler for greater manacheter police and is a champ show judge and a top westie breeder and i have a cousin who has rotties. I ve been around many different breds through out my short life time and i have never been out of control when with any dog. in fact not so long ago i was one of the top JH in the north of scotland. Thank you everyone for your posts . :wub:

 

[~elizabeth~]

Well, wouldn't a good guide be the other dogs behaviour?

Not always - not all dogs know how to give the proper signals

That's precisely my point, as there are so many poorly socialised ones everywhere now. So many owners tense up when they see a dog they don't know, which makes their dog tense which doesn't help defuse the situation.

The aggressive incidents I've had have never been in the open; each one has been either on a pavement, narrow park entrances or other places likely to initiate a flashpoint, and nearly always whilst mine (and in one instance the other dog too) was on a lead.

I have to say in most instances when a dog displays polite and overtly friendly behaviour to a strange dog, the owner usually comes over to be friendly too, in fact it's a nice way to make new friends. People are often appreciative and positive social contact between the humans reinforces the dogs' confidence too.

I'm not disagreeing that you should be careful, not let your dog run into groups of other dogs or ones on leads etc, but so often in these threads it comes over that we should be invariably terrified of any dog not on a lead we don't know. :wacko:

 

[neave]

Thats exactly the point i was trying to put across. and am sorry if i upset anyone ! it annoys me when people let their dogs run up to keano when i have him on the lead but once i know the dog or dogs are friedly am happy to let them have a play. Keano is still being trained i know he is 2 but for a ages i was a bit worried about letting him off incase something happened to him and he sensed that. In fact i didnt let kenao off the lead till he was about 9 months old and little bit more mature. Now am learning not to worry cause i can totally trust him and he is getting a whole lot better and coming back when i ask him too cause he knows i will reward him. When am out with him i tend to take him to the bottom of the park on a grassy area so he can have a run. But if am walking round the park i tend to keep him on the lead.

 

[maggymills]

my dog is like the one you described Moriarte, she loves other dogs but is submissive,

if a bigger dog runs up to her, she has learned to bark once or twice to tell the dog she aint up for a rough and tumble, this causes the bigger dog to approach nicer, then my dog is okay to say hello- but if she gets surprised by a bolshy dog, she wont be happy!

when she approaches dogs, she may bark out of excitement, then when she gets to them will roll over to let them sniff her, once thats out of way she can play.

if we are in the situation of strange dog bounding up to us, i will tell flo to stay, and we hold our ground! i dont pick her up or touch her, when the dog is close and being boisterous either Flo will tell it off, or I will talk to him. I do this to calm Flo down to show her not to be scared. I then if i have opportunity- will tell owner that their dog was lucky to not to told off by my dog!

Im very much up for dogs meeting, and im not against new dogs meeting- i just like owners to be aware of what their dogs are doing! I cant and wont molly cuddle my dog just because she has a small fear of meeting dogs, i encourage her to, in a positive way. Im trying to turn around the effect that no socialise had on her when she was a pup.. and after 18 months of this- she is getting better and better.

if you walk your dog in public places you should realise there may be someone who may not be as on the ball as you are!

 

[chelynnah]

Neave, in your first post you said that you kept telling the man to stop walking as Keano kept following him and you needed the man to stop so you could get Keano back to you. Then Keano wasn't under control and didn't come right back.

I'm not against dogs socialising and interacting with each other. If you read my first post again you'll see the conditions which I do let my dogs socialise - by mutual agreement with the owners we meet along the way. I will not allow my dogs to force themselves on anyone, and on the rare occasion now that they do I am extremely apologetic and don't blame the other person if they're upset. And I don't blame someone else if they don't want my dog socialising with theirs - that's their right.

There's way too many rude and belligerant owners AND dogs out there so of course we need to weigh each situation carefully. This guy was not wrong for not wanting to take a chance. You don't know what his experience has been. And even if his dog was wanting to play, he may have been worried about big dog/small dog interaction - sometimes bigger dogs do play too rough with smaller dogs.

Wendy

 

[neave]

i do take your point wendy. i only asked the gentleman once to stand still and i didnt keep asking him (maybe i didnt make that clear). And after i said that to him, keano came back to me. He is still training and every dog just like humans will make mistakes along the learning path. I wasn't blaming the man just thought he shouldnt of panic thats all. Keano is a very friendly dog and wouldnt hurt anyone if i thought he would i wouldn't have him off the lead. He has been brought up with 5 other whippets and i go to alot of shows so he is well used to other breds.

Just to add i noticed that you didnt put a post up when molly got bitten by a collie. She was off the lead when this happened. Just out off interest not having a go but why did you have a rant at me and not molly ?

 

[neave]

Molly didnt deserve to be bitten. But would you say her owner was not in control of her ( i believe that molly mum wouldnt let her off the lead if she didnt think she could control her) or would you say that the owner of the collie was not in control of her dog. (sorry to bring mollys mum in to this debate just using her as an example)

 

[chelynnah]

What would you have me do - copy and paste the entire post on both threads - what would be the point of repeating it. And that situation was entirely different...

In that case the all the dogs were loose and happily playing together - the owners had mutually allowed the dogs to play. She didn't get bit because she was harassing a dog who's owner didn't want them to interact.

One of my own girls has been bitten by a GSD where we allowed the 2 of them to play and he didn't like that she could outrun him so he snapped at her and she got a puncture wound. One of those cases where stuff happens, though I wish the owner would have warned me that ther was a potential and I'd have called my girl back.

In Molly's case both sets of dogs were offleash, both owners were allowing the dogs to interact - the other owner should have warned Molly's owner that the other dog was toy aggressive and given her the chance to get Molly back.

Different than allowing your loose dog to go up to someone who clearly does not want to interact with your dog.

if you read my first post again closely you'll notice that I had a dog who was guilty as well of the same thing - it still doesn't make it ok.

If you want to go through my posts you'll find I've posted at least twice in my membership here (and one of them was only a couple of months ago) almost the exact same thing where the person was having a go at someone for being upset that their unleashed dog ran up and 'just wanted to say hi' to their leashed dog.

My point is it's not ok if both parties are not ok to it. If it was YOUR under control dog who was being harrassed and bit I have no doubt you'd be having a rant (and deservedly so) about the owner who didn't have their dog under control

We dog owners can't have it both ways.... We can't expect others to be okay with our dogs harrassing theirs when they don't want it, but be upset when someone else's dog harasses ours.

Why is that so hard to grasp.

This isn't just about you - it's the same thing over and over again - on one post you'll have someone complaining that their dog's been bit while they had control of it, and everyone saying 'oh poor you - that awful person who let their dog run up uncontrolled' and then another post on the same day and same board saying 'this horrible person got upset because my dog ran up to say hi' and a lot of those same people going 'oh poor misunderstood you - how could he not have known your dog just wanted to say hi'.

I'm just getting tired of the double standard that seems to be out there.

Wendy

(and in no way did I rant - or I'd have used the rant symbol - I just put forth an opinon that I felt wouldn't be popular to have voiced - and surprise surprise - actually there were some who were brave enough to agree)

 

[neave]

We ve both had our say as the saying goes we' ll agree to disagree thank u very much for your points on this post x x :thumbsup: