Wcra Reps Meeting 24th May

[wild whippies]

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Bertha I don't dispute that DNA testing is the only surefire way of prooving a dogs breeding (see non ped forum lol)

however, whilst the DNA cannot lie, how and whom and in what manner it is obtained can all be construed to commit deception. It doesn't neccesarily mean deception has indeed been commited but it doesn't rule out probably doubt either.

The thing is though DNA testing is a new kid on the block and decisions were made before this new technology came about. Expert opinions are used every day to seek opinions that are unbiased and as truthful as possible (preferably by individuals totally unrelated to any of the concerned parties)

Whilst a further test carried out in an environment devoid of doubt may not be ammeniable now, there is always the opportunity to DNA test dogs that shouldn't be the sire.

Have to say I'm dissapointed that Bertha feels the KC would not be interested and some have said that the KC will flee in the face of any form of controversy. It does make me think what's the point?

 

[Nigel]

I'll re-iterate what you all know we've said all along - we don't think K9 is the correct place for this debate to take place.

I know both parties are keen to get over their point of view and are continually trying to present their 'evidence' but any discussion here is likely to resolve nothing and only degenerate into a huge row.

Please leave it for the meeting - hopefully this problem can me sorted out then.

 

[wild whippies]

In my opinion the onus is on the owners to prove they are pedigree - if they cannot then they don't race, simple as that! As it stand 2 owners and 4 dogs are going to be the downfall of the WCRA :angry:

Don't agree June, if this is the WCRA's downfall then it will be down to how they and they alone managed this situation. If they fold because of a lack of membership support then this will only be because they managed a situation poorly.

There are ''opportunists'' out there always ready to take advantage of a situation, the non-ped blood in ped whippets is an old tale and you'd of thought the very minute DNA testing became available, it would be introduced into your passporting system carried out a club level with witnesses present just like your clearing trials.

 

[BeeJay]

> if this is the WCRA's downfall then it will be down to how they and they alone managed this situation. If they fold because of a lack of membership support then this will only be because they managed a situation poorly.

There are ''opportunists'' out there always ready to take advantage of a situation, the non-ped blood in ped whippets is an old tale and you'd of thought the very minute DNA testing became available, it would be introduced into your passporting system carried out a club level with witnesses present just like your clearing trials.

Here here Jac. Actually June I'm sure would agree with you. We also have a bit of a problem in that we have some 'seconders' who do not race anymore and are out of touch with peddie racing today.

 

[June Jonigk]

> if this is the WCRA's downfall then it will be down to how they and they alone managed this situation. If they fold because of a lack of membership support then this will only be because they managed a situation poorly.
There are ''opportunists'' out there always ready to take advantage of a situation, the non-ped blood in ped whippets is an old tale and you'd of thought the very minute DNA testing became available, it would be introduced into your passporting system carried out a club level with witnesses present just like your clearing trials.

Here here Jac. Actually June I'm sure would agree with you. We also have a bit of a problem in that we have some 'seconders' who do not race anymore and are out of touch with peddie racing today.

I do indeed agree, that ultimately the fault lies with the WCRA in the way in which they dealt with the situation.

Just as a matter of interest, after enquiring at The Animal Health Trust if there was any way parentage testing could be carried out without the sire, I received the following document.

dog_parentage_form_Jan_09.doc

 

[June Jonigk]

Just received a reply from another lab - another resounding NO!

 

[Seraphina]

All my dogs are DNA profiled; to do that you need to provide the dog's KC registration papers with their microchip number. The registration number as well as microchip number is submitted with declaration and the swab. Certificate with several DNA markers is issued.

Here are the markers of my Genevieve and Claudia, mother and daughter. You can see that Claudia inherited 1 of each type of these genes from her mum, the other gene from the pair came from her father. Some of them are the same, so we do not know if it came from the dam or sire - like the 4th pair from left PEZ05

To prove paternity you need to have the sire's profile and he has to have the other half of the genes. I do not have the sire's profile, but I have underlined the genes that the dam does not have and circled those that definitely came from her. As you can see, Claudia has one gene on every marker the same as Genevieve, which confirms that Genevieve is her mum

The second comparison is for Stella and Claudia, who are half sisters sired by the same dog from quite unrelated bitches. It would be possible for me to construct their sire's DNA profile, but that could not be used as a proof of paternity. All what it would show that they were most likely sired by the same dog, but it would not show who he is, unless you have his certified DNA profile.

 

[Seraphina]

 

[dolly]

I'll re-iterate what you all know we've said all along - we don't think K9 is the correct place for this debate to take place.
I know both parties are keen to get over their point of view and are continually trying to present their 'evidence' but any discussion here is likely to resolve nothing and only degenerate into a huge row.

Please leave it for the meeting - hopefully this problem can me sorted out then.

Then wouldnt it be a good idea to lock the topic then ???

 

[June Jonigk]

I'll re-iterate what you all know we've said all along - we don't think K9 is the correct place for this debate to take place.
I know both parties are keen to get over their point of view and are continually trying to present their 'evidence' but any discussion here is likely to resolve nothing and only degenerate into a huge row.

Please leave it for the meeting - hopefully this problem can me sorted out then.

Then wouldnt it be a good idea to lock the topic then ???

This topic is actually about the meeting, and not the subject, and has had some valuable input.

 

[June Jonigk]

That's really interesting, thanks for posting :thumbsup: