We Have A Problem With Esme

[OEH]

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Ok, you might remember that a while back I posted a thread about Esme screaming. Well its getting worse, a lot worse. Last night it was almost a choice of who to kill- her or me, and I am not joking.

Ever since we have had her she has screamed and cried to get up in the morning. At first she only did this at about 5 to seven (we get up at 7), but as the mornings got lighter she has been starting earlier and earlier. She now starts before 6. This is a problem.

But far far worse. On and off during the last 2 weeks she has screamed when we put her to bed too. We are beginning to get seriously tired, so last night we all went to bed at 9.30. We did our best to tire her out, and didn't put her to bed till she had fallen asleep after a good game. However as soon as we moved her through to her crate in the kitchen and we'd gone upstairs it started again. OH has a lot of work on at the moment and really needs his sleep so I went down and growled at her and she shut up and we went to sleep.

Only for her to start screaming at 11.30. We tried to ignore it, but to be honest it was just too loud to allow, and it really is seriously seriously seriously LOUD- we live in a terrace and have tolerant neighbours, but I don't think anyone for about 4 door either side could possibly have slept through it. So yet again I go downstairs and growl. She shut up.

10 mins later- it starts again. Go down stairs again and growl and scream at her. She shut up.

Then it started again and again and again. OH really had to have some sleep so he went to the spare room where it is marginally quieter (which incidentally didn't work), and I went downstairs to growl at any sound from her.

I honestly couldn't shut her up, I thought she might be hungry so I fed her, she was hungry, and ate and ate. But still screamed when I put her to bed.

She is teething, and I thought that she might not like the chew she had in her bed so gave her a new one. She still screamed when I put her to bed.

I let her out to the garden time after time. She still screamed.

I put her into the same crate as Josephine. She still screamed, but Josephine joined in.

She didn't shut up till OH came down and gave her a seriously heavy telling off at 2.30.

She then started again at 6.

I honestly couldn't get her to shut up. As soon as I opened her crate she bounced and wagged and smiled. I didn't seem capable of expressing to her how serious I was about this, she is just so resilient. She honestly doesn't seem to care.

I think that I am probably not dominant enough with her, and she feels that she can get away with things. I am going to have to be much much stricter with her in future. I will also take her for a long walk to try to tire her out even more last thing at night. (You really would think that 2 hour long walks and endless play and training sessions a day would do it, plus 1/2 an hour at the hydrotherapy pool yesterday).

Something really has to be done as OH is beginning to say that she might have to go.

Sorry to rant, but I am seriously seriously worried about it all.

 

[*Lesley*]

I can't really offer advice Olivia just wanted to say I hope it all sorts itself out for you it's awful when you dont get enough sleep makes things seem twice a s bad as they already are :luck: :luck: :luck:

 

[kim & Tilly]

ok you have tried everything so sorry if i am stating something you have done already.

Do you think she is cold? the nights have been bitter and im wondering if she gets cold wakes up and then crys for you?

Do you have her crated with another dog?

Perhaps she is one of those dogs which just has to sleep close to her owner,,what would she be like in a crate in your room?

Although paul had them in cages at the top of the garden (now we know why lol)

If im babbering on sorry, i havent had this problem with Bean so im not sure

 

[ILoveKettleChips]

Sorry you're having such a bad time. Haven't time to say much except that I suspect you're right in saying that you need to get tougher. Unfortunately from what you've said I reckon getting tougher might mean just leaving her alone. The fact that she's wagging her tail and bouncing around when you go to her gives me the impression she's delighted that she's succeeded in getting your attention yet again. By the sounds of things she's not bothered what form that attention takes - a growl, a meal, a trip to the garden - it's all better than being alone.

What follows will probably be of no help (these things are terribly easy to say, I realise), but is the best I can suggest for now: Buy yourself a couple of large, cheap duvets. Cover her cage with them, and possibly some old carpet too. Make sure she's walked, fed, watered, tired - put her in the cage, turn a radio on low, and go to bed in the farthest room. DO NOT get up again until the screaming has stopped. And try your best to get up in the morning BEFORE it starts - even if it means getting up at 4 or 5. I'm worried that you're in a cycle whereby she's guaranteed some form of excitement every time she screams. Getting up to attend to her in any way will just reinforce this, even more so if sometimes she's left and sometimes she's visited. You have to become absolute and final in your determination to ignore her and NOT go to her until the screaming has stopped. This will be terribly difficult if you're both tired and miserable, but I'm hopeful that even a couple of nights where she gets nowhere by making noise will start to break the cycle.

I'm sorry if that sounds patronising, I don't mean it to. I wish you the very best of luck in sorting this miserable problem out :huggles: :luck:

 

[OEH]

ok you have tried everything so sorry if i am stating something you have done already.
Do you think she is cold? the nights have been bitter and im wondering if she gets cold wakes up and then crys for you?

She has an electric heater right by her crate, I put a blanket over her and over her crate

Do you have her crated with another dog?

Josephine is the only other one that is crated and Josephine crys if I put Esme in with her

Perhaps she is one of those dogs which just has to sleep close to her owner,,what would she be like in a crate in your room?

There simply isn't room

Although paul had them in cages at the top of the garden (now we know why lol)

And if we didn't have neighbours, that is exactly where Esme would be

If im babbering on sorry, i havent had this problem with Bean so im not sure

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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No you're not - any help is very gratefull recieved, we are getting seriously desperate. She is so utterly perfect in every other way, but we need sleep. -_-

 

[OEH]

  Sorry you're having such a bad time.  Haven't time to say much except that I suspect you're right in saying that you need to get tougher.  Unfortunately from what you've said I reckon getting tougher might mean just leaving her alone.  The fact that she's wagging her tail and bouncing around when you go to her gives me the impression she's delighted that she's succeeded in getting your attention yet again.  By the sounds of things she's not bothered what form that attention takes - a growl, a meal, a trip to the garden - it's all better than being alone.
What follows will probably be of no help (these things are terribly easy to say, I realise), but is the best I can suggest for now:  Buy yourself a couple of large, cheap duvets.  Cover her cage with them, and possibly some old carpet too.  Make sure she's walked, fed, watered, tired - put her in the cage, turn a radio on low, and go to bed in the farthest room.  DO NOT get up again until the screaming has stopped.  And try your best to get up in the morning BEFORE it starts - even if it means getting up at 4 or 5.  I'm worried that you're in a cycle whereby she's guaranteed some form of excitement every time she screams.  Getting up to attend to her in any way will just reinforce this, even more so if sometimes she's left and sometimes she's visited.  You have to become absolute and final in your determination to ignore her and NOT go to her until the screaming has stopped.  This will be terribly difficult if you're both tired and miserable, but I'm hopeful that even a couple of nights where she gets nowhere by making noise will start to break the cycle.

I'm sorry if that sounds patronising, I don't mean it to.  I wish you the very best of luck in sorting this miserable problem out  :huggles:   :luck:

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Thank you so much- all really helpful :cheers: .

I have been thinking about the duvet solution, but worry that she will run out of air- is this possible?

I'm sure you're right about getting up before she starts screaming, but OH won't let me because he needs the sleep, I think I'll send him to the spare room for a few nights.

I really worried about the neighbours, I think that I will go and buy some boxes of chocolates.

Not at all patronising- very helpful.

 

[kim & Tilly]

i hope you get it sorted...before you kill her :- "

What about a chat with a behaviour thingy? for some advice.

Do you have the other dogs who are not crated in the same room, perhaps she wants to be with them? or sees them and wants to get out?

I know Bean screamed when i had her crated on her own but i put her in with tilly and she was fine....(not any help unless you crate your other dogs and put her in with them.....

i guess if she isnt crated you would come down to devisation(sp) in the morning

 

[alfyn]

Sounds like the only thing you haven't tried,is to take her to bed with you!

I fully sympathise with your problem,but maybe this is the only way that you'll get a decent sleep.You'll probably find that after a few nights with you,Esme will feel more secure & the habit of screaming is broken.

 

[masta]

Hi i would try a DAP diffuser or spray (whelping bitch pheramone) i have just bought one for bella who is car sick but my brother uses one with his 3 boxers and has had very good results in calming them down, both kass and bella cried and screamed what i did was have a duvet on the kitchen floor when it got to a point that couldnt be ingnored i would go down tell her off and get under the duvet as though i was sleeping and within 10 mins they would be asleep and i went back to bed did this 4/5 times (not a night!!) and it ceased good luck

 

[Juley]

  Sorry you're having such a bad time.  Haven't time to say much except that I suspect you're right in saying that you need to get tougher.  Unfortunately from what you've said I reckon getting tougher might mean just leaving her alone.  The fact that she's wagging her tail and bouncing around when you go to her gives me the impression she's delighted that she's succeeded in getting your attention yet again.  By the sounds of things she's not bothered what form that attention takes - a growl, a meal, a trip to the garden - it's all better than being alone.
What follows will probably be of no help (these things are terribly easy to say, I realise), but is the best I can suggest for now:  Buy yourself a couple of large, cheap duvets.  Cover her cage with them, and possibly some old carpet too.  Make sure she's walked, fed, watered, tired - put her in the cage, turn a radio on low, and go to bed in the farthest room.  DO NOT get up again until the screaming has stopped.  And try your best to get up in the morning BEFORE it starts - even if it means getting up at 4 or 5.  I'm worried that you're in a cycle whereby she's guaranteed some form of excitement every time she screams.  Getting up to attend to her in any way will just reinforce this, even more so if sometimes she's left and sometimes she's visited.  You have to become absolute and final in your determination to ignore her and NOT go to her until the screaming has stopped.  This will be terribly difficult if you're both tired and miserable, but I'm hopeful that even a couple of nights where she gets nowhere by making noise will start to break the cycle.

I'm sorry if that sounds patronising, I don't mean it to.  I wish you the very best of luck in sorting this miserable problem out  :huggles:   :luck:

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I agree with everything said here. I was also given this piece of advice when I had my first dog ( terrier). Never go into the room when the dog is screaming, it rewards the behaviour. Bang loudly on the door (so the door is being cross, not the owner) count to 10 and then go in so the reward is for quiet. I am so sorry you are going thru this, it is miserable but it WILL get better. It might take a few nights thou so chocs for the neighbours sound like a good idea. . After all, a crying baby would make a noise too. Good luck, be thinking of you. :luck:

Edited to say. Do you crate her in the day and leave her for short periods? That way she will get used to be shut in on her own.

 

[mandy21]

Sorry to read you are having problems with Esme. Hope you manage to sort them out. :huggles:

 

[LasVegasNo1]

Have you tried ignoring her? By that I mean when she's screaming come down to her but ignore her, make yourself a drink, read a magazine etc etc, but do not acknowledge her in the slightest! No eye contact, don't speak, don't touch her just sit there in your own world until she gets the message you don't want anything to do with her. Hopefully she will settle, then leave the room. If she starts up again, repeat the process, but remember to never acknowledge her! Hopefully in time she will learn there's no point calling for you at night as you don't bloody pay any attention to her anyway! :lol:

I was taught this by a dog trainer, and I must say it did work for us! :thumbsup:

Good luck, let's hope you get some sleep sometime soon! :luck:

 

[jok]

Sorry you're having problems, i know that lack of sleep can make you feel terrible.

You have got a lot of good advise already. Me personally, i wouldn't take her into bed with me, because i think this means she has got her own way. Also, you would then have to go through breaking the coming to bed cycle with you and the screaming could start again. Also, i doubt your OH would thank you for bringing her into bed.

Chloe was a right pain in the night for about 2 -3 wks after we brought her home at 8 weeks. We did not give up and go down to her - we would bang on the ceiling to tell her off. If you go down and tell them off, they are still getting attention even though it is negative attention.

Would any of your other dog mind going in a crate to sleep with her (except Josephine). Who is her best friend out of the others?

Frankie goes to bed fine but squeaks at 7 (regular as clockwork) to get up. The last two nights since he's been crated with Holly, not a single sound. This morning we got them up at 8.15. I think it helps when they are with another friend during the night.

Also agree with Juley, crate her for short periods during the day and also maybe feed her in the crate to get her to associate it with nice things too. Perhaps you could shut her in for a bit in the day with a treat, such as a pigs ear, that takes time to chew.

:luck: It might not seem like it at the moment, but things will get better.

 

[boothros]

Sorry to read you are having problems with Esme.  Hope you manage to sort them out. :huggles:

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Agree with Alfyn as I cant imagine being in bed without a whippet somewhere, but I think the problem must be sorted out before you go down that road as otherwise it may never be cured. Think my bitch was at least 6 months before she started coming to bed with me & by then I was sure she would stay in a crate ok. Think the advice given about completely ignoring her all the time she is screaming cannot be emphasized enough. Its very hard I know but you have to persevere - please dont give up on her, stick together on this one, remember any future owners of Esme might not be as patient & understanding as you. Best of luck Shaz

 

[Tea_juice]

I'm the last person to be giving advice, having only been a dog owner for 2 weeks, and not coping very successfully with it! But I just wanted to reiterate what Masta said about the DAP spray/diffuser. I was sceptical when OH bought it, and thought if it did work it'd take ages before we saw changes, but DeeDee has slept through the night 2 nights in a row now, for the first time in 2 weeks since the DAP came.

www.vetuk.co.uk do it cheaper then anywhere else, and also do next day delivery.

Good luck. :luck:

 

[~Helen~]

  Sorry you're having such a bad time.  Haven't time to say much except that I suspect you're right in saying that you need to get tougher.  Unfortunately from what you've said I reckon getting tougher might mean just leaving her alone.  The fact that she's wagging her tail and bouncing around when you go to her gives me the impression she's delighted that she's succeeded in getting your attention yet again.  By the sounds of things she's not bothered what form that attention takes - a growl, a meal, a trip to the garden - it's all better than being alone.
What follows will probably be of no help (these things are terribly easy to say, I realise), but is the best I can suggest for now:  Buy yourself a couple of large, cheap duvets.  Cover her cage with them, and possibly some old carpet too.  Make sure she's walked, fed, watered, tired - put her in the cage, turn a radio on low, and go to bed in the farthest room.  DO NOT get up again until the screaming has stopped.  And try your best to get up in the morning BEFORE it starts - even if it means getting up at 4 or 5.  I'm worried that you're in a cycle whereby she's guaranteed some form of excitement every time she screams.  Getting up to attend to her in any way will just reinforce this, even more so if sometimes she's left and sometimes she's visited.  You have to become absolute and final in your determination to ignore her and NOT go to her until the screaming has stopped.  This will be terribly difficult if you're both tired and miserable, but I'm hopeful that even a couple of nights where she gets nowhere by making noise will start to break the cycle.

I'm sorry if that sounds patronising, I don't mean it to.  I wish you the very best of luck in sorting this miserable problem out  :huggles:   :luck:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I agree with everything said here. I was also given this piece of advice when I had my first dog ( terrier). Never go into the room when the dog is screaming, it rewards the behaviour. Bang loudly on the door (so the door is being cross, not the owner) count to 10 and then go in so the reward is for quiet. I am so sorry you are going thru this, it is miserable but it WILL get better. It might take a few nights thou so chocs for the neighbours sound like a good idea. . After all, a crying baby would make a noise too. Good luck, be thinking of you. :luck:

Edited to say. Do you crate her in the day and leave her for short periods? That way she will get used to be shut in on her own.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

sleep deprivation is vile, I really feel for you, Olivia

when I was reading your original post, I was thinking the same as ILKC and Juley. Going down and growling is reward in its own way totally ignoring this is probably the only way forward (taking her in your bed is fine, but it means you then have the problem of getting her out again or sleeping poorly for the rest of your life with an extra body in the bed which twitches and fiegets and gets too hot/too cold/thirsty/needs to pant).

I remember reading on a previous thread that it can take 4 nights to get the message through, so boxes of chocolates and earplugs all round. But at least then it's done.

:luck: :luck: :luck: :luck:

 

[~whitecross whippets~]

im really sorry you are having trouble...soon you will have forgotten all about it but at the moment especially when you are tired everything seems like the end of the world...sorry no advice other than what others have said...except have you tried rescue remedy in her water...its very calming o

good luck :luck:

 

[OEH]

You are all great :huggles: :huggles: Thank you so much.

I think the plan of action will be as follows:

We are going to dock her priviliges, just so she knows that she is bottom of the pack, so not allowed on the sofa etc till she understands our relationship a bit better.

I have some spare duvets so I'll wrap her crate in them tonight.

I'll put some rescue remedy in the water in her crate (and take some myself).

I'll go buy choccies for the neighbours.

I'll speak to the vet about the DAP infuser.

We will go for a long walk at bed time.

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

ps I do love her really ) In many ways she's perfect, its just a bit hard to see that at the moment :wacko:

 

[shenace]

Sleep deprivation is a killer - but honestly you need to tough love her - she's not sad if she's wagging her tail, she has won the battle by getting your attention, she's just settling in to her new routine and she needs to learn the rules - I always tell my puppy people to be prepared for a couple of weeks of unsettlement - those nights are so long when you are knackered - bright side - in another week you will look back & think surely it wasn't that bad - bit like when you get sleep deprivation with babies - you then forget how horrid it was & bang - another baby in that cot & it all come flooding back! She will be right

 

[Lakey]

Where's the other dogs on a night?

Can she not sleep with them?

Polly howled until we left her and Buck together one night (after a week of no sleep) and she's been fine since.

Hope things sort themselves out for you :luck: