Whippet / Cavalier X ...

[kim & Tilly]

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If i could have got my whippets from a rescue center i would....

i didnt want a cross whippet, so bought a ped from good breeders (well not to sure about Tillys)

i do feel guilty though about all those dogs which need homes and i bought a new puppy

 

[kitty]

If i could have got my whippets from a rescue center i would....
i didnt want a cross whippet, so bought a ped from good breeders (well not to sure about Tillys)

i do feel guilty though about all those dogs which need homes and i bought a new puppy

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people pay for what they want, regardless of all the dogs homeless and unwanted in rescue centres.

In all honestly, I dont see rescue centres heaving with malti - poo's and the like.

 

[clairej810]

My old GSD x Collie was from a rescue centre, I paid £70 for her and she was lovely BUT she had all the health problems possible from the two breeds and some of the temperament problems too. We spent heaps keeping her healthy for 6 years (and I would have spent 10 times as much if I had to) but eventually everything packed up, her hips went, her spine crumbled and she couldn't cope anymore. She was 8 when she died and had a good life, but her breeding was dreadful.

Her original owners found out how sick she was and chucked her out in the street. She was my first dog and I loved her, but I don't think the mixture of her breeding did her any good at all. I'm not saying that all mixes are bad, but in this case it was.

RIP Hazel, baby. :huggles:

 

[Cartman]

Our controlling bodies here are very clear on this. As members we go by a code of ethics. It says that we can not mate one of our pure breeds to none pure breeds or a pure bred of another breed. Break this rule & loose all membership rights.

End of story.

 

[masta]

Maybe they dont want a puppy from a rescue kennel, maybe they want to breed or buy a certain cross that appeals to them in the same way people that choice with pure breedss, if the rationale was to empty rescue homes why bother breeding at all its personal choice it is not allway s about ££££

as for what happens to the rest ive not heard reports from the RSPCA etc that they are being overwhelmed by "puggles" etc

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:rant: :rant: Why do people object to paying for a crossbreed at a rescue kennels, yet will pay hundreds to buy a MONGREL- because that's what these designer dogs are- from puppy farmers??? :rant: :rant: I know this for a fact as I help a local santuary

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"all designer dog breeders are "puppy farmers" and you know this for a FACT as you help out at a santuary"

Yeah right, very open minded

 

[Seraphina]

:rant: :rant: Why do people object to paying for a crossbreed at a rescue kennels, yet will pay hundreds to buy a MONGREL- because that's what these designer dogs are- from puppy farmers??? :rant: :rant: I know this for a fact as I help a local santuary

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"all designer dog breeders are "puppy farmers" and you know this for a FACT as you help out at a santuary"

Yeah right, very open minded

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Why are people willing to pay for "designer pups"? I guess it is all the spin. They are advertised in a way that appeals to some people. While people getting dogs from shelters feel they are doing a good deed and should not be expected to pay as well.

Are breeders of these crossbreds "puppy farmers"? Well, i guess it depends on how do you define it. For me it is anybody who breeds for the sole purpose of selling pups as pets for profit.

Registered breeders have to follow some rules, such as not to breed from bitch too early, too often and to provide certain standard of care. Reputable breeder will also take their pups back at anytime during their life if needed.

The breeder of designer pups do not have to follow any rules. Nobody would know if they breed their bitches from their first season, every season until they stop conceiving or drop dead. Unless their animals are in such a bad condition that it warrants RSPCA intervention, they can do what ever they like.

As far giving it a lot of thought goes, well what sort of thought these people give it? Besides what cross would make them most money? As the crossbreds do not have certified pedigree you cannot go 5 generations back to see what are their ancestors. And even if they do start with 2 pedigreed dogs, unless they have been involved with the 2 breeds for many years, they cannot know much.

 

[JAX]

MOST designer dogs are produced by puppy farms.  They are produced purely for profit.  Few years ago it was all the rage to have shi tzu X maltese and friend of mine wanted one.  She called the puppy farm which advertised them, and got a cute ball of fluff.  I was bit suspicious because it was not white with dark patches as these crosses usually are, but sort of pale apricot, and not as soft as I would expect.  Anyway it grew to the size of mini poodle, and was absolutely mad, dirty, noisy creature.  My guess it was miniature poodle X West Highland.  Basically, buying a dog without papers you can never be sure what you are really getting.
If somebody has to wait 8 years to find the right parents to breed a cross bred litter, that sounds fishy to me.  What I would like to know is what is this woman going to do now that she has her perfect Whippet and cavalier?  Is she just going to be churning pups from them?  Or has she kept one from this litter and is she planning to breed from her?  If so what to?  If she kept a pair and is planning to breed from them she is going to find that although these 2 look similar, their pups will be a very mixed bag, some looking like Whippets, some like cavaliers.  To start a new breed (which breeds true) takes at least 20 years, heaps of money, and you need large kennels and large number of dogs, to have reasonable genetic pool.  The blind association was able to do that, but it would be impossible for ordinary person living in suburb. 

The thing is I cannot see any benefit in introducing Cavalier characteristics into a Whippet.  I can see the benefit of crossing such a breed as a pug with another breed to elongate their noses and improve their ability to breath.  But that should be done by very experienced pug breeder and the other breed would have to be chosen very carefully.

And another thing; absolutely anybody can decide to breed "designer dogs", all what they need is to get bitch and a dog, leave them in the backyard and flog the pups.  In OZ designer pups sell for double - triple what I sell my Whippet pups.  At these prices most of the people buying them are wealthy people who are buying themselves a status symbol and conversation piece for their next dinner party.  When the dog pees on their carpet and eats a leg from the table, it is swiftly re-located outside, and once the kids get bored with it, it goes into the pound.  And yes, the same type of people also come to look at my pups, but I would not sell them one.

But you are obviously very happy with your puppy, and that is all what matters.  :cheers:

But then that would rule out non peddie racing whippets and lurchers, also some of the working terriers. ALL far superior in their ability to perform the jobs for which they were bred than their KC reg counterparts. That should tell us summat important about how we are breeding KC reg dogs IMO.

Yes, but they are bred for purpose other than making money. They are bred by people involved in the racing etc.

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Now why couldnt I have put it as well as that , :- " :wacko: Well done , thats my thoughts to a tee :cheers:

 

[lalena]

seraphina, i totally agree with you :thumbsup: but give up on masta you cant make everyone see the light

 

[Strike Whippets]

Spot on Seraphina :thumbsup:

 

[masta]

seraphina, i totally agree with you :thumbsup:   but give up on masta   you cant make everyone see the light

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Thats ok i dont mind you giving up on me believe me if i had to rely on this forum to "see the light" i would have given up myself lol but can you or maybe a fellow member explain why we still have inherent health problems running through most of the pure pedigree breeds today as if what you and others state re:- Reputable breeders,codes of ethics,careful researched breeding is normal practice surely they should have been eradicated?

 

[lalena]

seraphina, i totally agree with you :thumbsup:   but give up on masta   you cant make everyone see the light

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Thats ok i dont mind you giving up on me believe me if i had to rely on this forum to "see the light" i would have given up myself lol but can you or maybe a fellow member explain why we still have inherent health problems running through most of the pure pedigree breeds today as if what you and others state re:- Reputable breeders,codes of ethics,careful researched breeding is normal practice surely they should have been eradicated?

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i cant speak for EVERY breed, but in staffords there have been several break throughs recently, having identified certain genes for heriditary illnesses. funnily enough, MY bitch has been tested, the stud we used HAS been tested, meaning ALL of my pups are CLEAR. i agree that some animals shouldnt be bred from, if theyre affected, but until these vital tests were invented per say, no one could possibly know who was a carrier of said conditions, unless an affected animal cropped up. i pride myself on doing the best for my dogs and for the breed as a whole, and ultimately most breeders do. its when ignorant people, who either dont know whats bad, or dont care, decide to breed. if a beginner, not knowing the flaws within their bloodline, breeds to a dog, again without knowing the backround, BINGO. or an experienced breeder who tries to hush things up.a stafford kennel has been wiped out because of one genetic illness, partly through their own fault. ok, tests werent invented then, but given the high proportion of their pups that died through seizures before they reached a year old, they shouldve realised that something was clearly wrong with their breeding stock. they carried on anyway, several of their dogs making champion, and being used at stud....now these tests are here, guess what? through their 'cover up' literally hundreds of staffords with that kennel in their backround are suspect.

on the other hand, the majority of staff breeders/owners/showers wont even consider going ahead without knowing exactly what theyre getting into, boycotting all untested stock. unfortunately, many people who get turned away cannot find any kc owner who WOULD go ahead, so they then go to non peds, or to other breeds, and sell resulting pups as 'pitbulls', for which there is great demand and because these pups are often unstable in nature, they either cause damage or get put into rescue did you know for a decent kc staff the price is around £500 to £600. for a mongrel aka pitbull the price can be over £1000

NOW TELL ME THATS NOT PROFITEERING

 

[Strike Whippets]

seraphina, i totally agree with you :thumbsup:   but give up on masta   you cant make everyone see the light

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Thats ok i dont mind you giving up on me believe me if i had to rely on this forum to "see the light" i would have given up myself lol but can you or maybe a fellow member explain why we still have inherent health problems running through most of the pure pedigree breeds today as if what you and others state re:- Reputable breeders,codes of ethics,careful researched breeding is normal practice surely they should have been eradicated?

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Your right ......To be honest there are health issues running through ALL breeds of dogs (not ALL lines though) ...........Your looking at a Cav x Whippet if not researched correctly carrying a heart problem on both sides ........There are alot of pedigree breeders out there who also just put their dogs to CHAMPIONS as they think these are a safe bet ........Hmmmmm ok then :wacko: .....don't consider lines etc .......but look at the GSD breeders ......Over the last 15 odd years they have bred dogs with better and better temprements and sounder hip scores :thumbsup: ........The Dobes for a while went off the rails in some lines, but the dedicated breeders have brought them back on track .......The proper breeders of ANY breed of dog DO notice any problems that start arising and try their best to sort it ......but they normally have years of knowledge of the lines, breed etc.............There are always a few who are in it for the money though and can't tell you why they bred that litter, be it pedigree dogs or cross breds ......

 

[05whippet]

I can't speak for anyone else here,BUT my Whippets certainly DONT have any health issues at all!! nor do I know of any who have any either, I think they are one of the more luckier breeds as they have very few health problems. I do know that breeds such as the Bullbreeds,GSD,Poodles, Labs,Staffs etc DO have problems with their health that is inherited and I am sorry if I offend anyone here......I do not mean to but I really do think that an awful lot of that can be contributed to people breeding these dogs without any thought going into it.You only need to look thru the free papers to see the amount of the above mentioned dogs which are offered FREE TO GOOD HOME along with an endless amount of Terriers and Lurchers to see that we do have problems and to be honest I think there are enough breeds out there to suit everyone without having to cross and add to the already amounting problem of unwanted puppies and adult dogs!

Personally I cannot see any reason for cross breeding a breed of dog,(unless health reasons) they were all bred originally to do a job and can usually do it quite well enough!

This is of course just MY opinion

 

[sharron]

I have read i few replys saying that people would not buy a resuce but would buy a puppy. When we agreed on getting a dog we made a list of dogs that would liked and made a short list of them all, when we desided to get a whippet, I siad that i would look for a resuce dog, i go from there. As like i have said i a past reply there are alot of resuces out there, Yes we looked round all the resuce places around here. Then i rang JR and have never looked back, Yes i would like to get another whippet, But i still think that i would get a resuce whippet again.

Yes i hold my hands up and say im not a puppy person, Does this make me a bad person. who has no rights to own a resuce or should i have let Zeb be pts because i got a puppy instead of him.

Im sorry if i sounds horrid.

 

[kris]

hereditary problems in pedigree breeds will only be eradicated when breeders are totally honest about them.if witch hunts are started about certain problems in certain lines people will be more inclined to 'keep mum' and hope the problem doesnt get discovered.i know for a fact that a lot of shar peis routinely have their eyes tacked for example and as long as people in the breed accept this and keep it brushed under the carpet the problem wont go away.problems tend to get bigger when ignored,you have to face them head on .when i first started breeding i made sure all my stock were x rayed and scored and tested for any and all hereditary defects.i can honestly say i never had any problems.but if i had the animal concerned would have NEVER been allowed to be bred from.from a legal standpoint i couldnt afford to be dragged through the courts for compensation(if you breed from a dog and the resulting progeny have defects that are known to be in the breed you are legally liable for all costs,more so if you havent had your stock tested as the law looks upon it as negligence and theres no defence in law to negligence.)but also from a standpoint that every animal deserves to have a happy and healthy and pain free life. :thumbsup:

 

[Seraphina]

Actually every living creature has some hereditary problem, some experts say on average we all have about 5 genetic disorders. These diseases are caused by damage to the gene/genes and once this damage occurs it is past on to the future generations. There are many reasons why damage occurs, such as exposure to chemicals or radiation. The problems caused by recessive gene or genes will not cause problem unless both parents carry them, and then some of their of spring will be affected, while others may be only carriers, and some may be free of this defect. Problems generally become obvious when certain species, or in dogs a breed, becomes so inbred that most of the animals carry it. Therefore substantially varied gene pool is absolutely essential for producing healthy animals. Lets say you have a breed with a worrying problem and there is a test, you test and all carriers are excluded from breeding, that will halve the number of dogs available for breeding. What is going to happen is that the genetic pool would have been significantly reduced, and in no time at all another serious problem will surface. We may get rid of unpleasant problem that we can test for, only to end up with deadly problem that is caused by several genes and difficult to test for.

This site has list, breed by breed, of the genetic disorders in dogs;

genetics

 

[masta]

http://www.caninechronicle.com/features/ba...ed_defects.html

 

[JAX]

Actually every living creature has some hereditary problem, some experts say on average we all have about 5 genetic disorders.  These diseases are caused by damage to the gene/genes and once this damage occurs it is past on to the future generations.  There are many reasons why damage occurs, such as exposure to chemicals or radiation.  The problems caused by recessive gene or genes will not cause problem unless both parents carry them, and then some of their of spring will be affected, while others may be only carriers, and some may be free of this defect.  Problems generally become obvious when certain species, or in dogs a breed, becomes so inbred that most of the animals carry it.  Therefore substantially varied gene pool is absolutely essential for producing healthy animals.  Lets say you have a breed with a worrying problem and there is a test, you test and all carriers are excluded from breeding, that will halve the number of dogs available for breeding.  What is going to happen is that the genetic pool would have been significantly reduced, and in no time at all another serious problem will surface.  We may get rid of unpleasant problem that we can test for, only to end up with deadly problem that is caused by several genes and difficult to test for.
This site has list, breed by breed, of the genetic disorders in dogs;

genetics

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Thats a great site , thanks for the link :huggles:

 

[Cartman]

Now why couldnt I have put it as well as that , :- " :wacko: Well done , thats my thoughts to a tee :cheers:

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So she read your ming Jax? 8) That would not of taken long. :- "

 

[fewterer]

"Proponents of inbreeding often point out that mongrels have more genetic problems than purebreds. While it is true that mongrels, as a group, have more individual kinds of diseases and defects than any single pure breed, it must be remembered that each breed represents only a portion of the canine gene pool, whereas mongrels encompass all of it. If mongrels’ defects are compared to those found among all pure breeds, the discrepancy disappears. Since mongrels usually are the result of random, unplanned breeding, the incidence of defects is low in the overall population. In pure breeds many of those same defects are common. For instance, progressive retinal atrophy and collie eye anomaly are rare in mongrels. Incidence of both is high in Collies.

It is becoming more and more apparent that the short-term gains of inbreeding are outweighed by its long-term costs. Present-day breeders need to re-think their strategy. Assortative mating—the mating of phenotypically similar but unrelated or less-related individuals—will allow breeders to reach their breeding goals while reducing the loss of alleles in the over-all population. "

The Downside of Inbreeding:

It’s Time For a New Approach

by C.A. Sharp

the downside of inbreeding...