Whippet Health Survey

[Rachel]

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I've just met a woman on our walkies with two Cavalier spaniels.

She told me that she had had 6 cavaliers before these two, all of who had died prematurely from heart related disease. The youngest at 2yrs and the oldest at 10yrs. The dogs with her were 12yrs - on heart medication and carefully monitored and clipped in the heat etc etc due to her heart condition. and the other sweet little bitch was 15mths , bought against the lady's better judgement after her previous experiences and 'healthy' until 15mths when she too was diagnosed with a heart murmur!

The lady had not bought any of the dogs from the same breeder and had travelled to all parts of the UK to get them, she said that none were related. Is this breed really in such a terrible mess!? Can you imagine if when choosing a whippet pup you were taking a gamble as to how long you might be able to keep it alive!

I wholeheartedly support and applaud the EAWC for its health survey and wonder how the information gathered will be used. I think we're a long way off the poor health of other breeds, but I wonder if when a problem is identified, what can be done.

I know that we do have health problems in the breed already (hopefully rare) - I have an auto-immune dog, and I have noted other successful breeders allude to health problems that have caused them to avoid these bloodlines, but I wouldn't dream of publicising the breeding of my dog, and presumably nobody else is going to openly say which dogs they have had problems with, thus perpetuating the problem - the dogs with the health problems are not openly acknowledged, so cannot be avoided in breeding plans. I wonder if when the health problems are statistically proven what can be done to stop those problems/that breeding perpetuating.

This is NOT intended as a knock. I hope it doesn't come across as one -I'm genuinely curious, to the point of anxious - I take great pride in recommending my breed to others as being health free, and my meeting with the cavalier lady chilled me - imagine if alongside saying 'they're a fantastic breed, so laid back, gentle, kind, good with children etc etc' you had to add, 'but they do have heart problems/go blind early/get autoimmune diseases'.

I feel quite passionate about this issue. The cavalier lady had to have counselling with every dog she lost early! We must avoid inherant health problems at all costs - there is no satisfaction or pride in turning out pups whose owners contact you at a later date to inform you of health problems.

 

[clayelem]

I've just met a woman on our walkies with two Cavalier spaniels.
She told me that she had had 6 cavaliers before these two, all of who had died prematurely from heart related disease. The youngest at 2yrs and the oldest at 10yrs. The dogs with her were 12yrs - on heart medication and carefully monitored and clipped in the heat etc etc due to her heart condition. and the other sweet little bitch was 15mths , bought against the lady's better judgement after her previous experiences and 'healthy' until 15mths when she too was diagnosed with a heart murmur!

The lady had not bought any of the dogs from the same breeder and had travelled to all parts of the UK to get them, she said that none were related. Is this breed really in such a terrible mess!? Can you imagine if when choosing a whippet pup you were taking a gamble as to how long you might be able to keep it alive!

I wholeheartedly support and applaud the EAWC for its health survey and wonder how the information gathered will be used. I think we're a long way off the poor health of other breeds, but I wonder if when a problem is identified, what can be done.

I know that we do have health problems in the breed already (hopefully rare) - I have an auto-immune dog, and I have noted other successful breeders allude to health problems that have caused them to avoid these bloodlines, but I wouldn't dream of publicising the breeding of my dog, and presumably nobody else is going to openly say which dogs they have had problems with, thus perpetuating the problem - the dogs with the health problems are not openly acknowledged, so cannot be avoided in breeding plans. I wonder if when the health problems are statistically proven what can be done to stop those problems/that breeding perpetuating.

This is NOT intended as a knock. I hope it doesn't come across as one -I'm genuinely curious, to the point of anxious - I take great pride in recommending my breed to others as being health free, and my meeting with the cavalier lady chilled me - imagine if alongside saying 'they're a fantastic breed, so laid back, gentle, kind, good with children etc etc' you had to add, 'but they do have heart problems/go blind early/get autoimmune diseases'.

I feel quite passionate about this issue. The cavalier lady had to have counselling with every dog she lost early! We must avoid inherant health problems at all costs - there is no satisfaction or pride in turning out pups whose owners contact you at a later date to inform you of health problems.

The EAWC has collated all of the information and has sent the results plus all of the surveys to the health coordinator of the Breed Council. If you would like a copy of the results you can email me at swhippet@btinternet.com.

Health coordinator of EAWC

 

[caitlin]

Well said, Rachel!! I personally feel that one of the problems with pedigree dogs is using champion sires all the time - imagine what state our genes would be in if only 1% of the men were allowed to father children! The gene pool shrinks when everyone wants to use the same sire.

 

[Ridgesetter]

Oh, I don't know - Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Hugh Jackman. Think I'd be happy with some of the 1%.

Seriously, you can't make someone use a different dog because the others have been used extensively. There's particular racing greyhound being used nearly EVERY DAY somewhere in the world - with frozen semen - as he is such a great producer.

As a breeder, I want the best stud dog I can, but naturally, a healthy one so hopefully health studies will provide this information.

 

[caitlin]

Oh, I don't know - Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Hugh Jackman. Think I'd be happy with some of the 1%.
Seriously, you can't make someone use a different dog because the others have been used extensively. There's particular racing greyhound being used nearly EVERY DAY somewhere in the world - with frozen semen - as he is such a great producer.

As a breeder, I want the best stud dog I can, but naturally, a healthy one so hopefully health studies will provide this information.

Maybe the KC could put a limit on how many times a particular dog is used This would open up the 'market' to some more dogs! Also, just because a dog has won shows etc. doesn't make it the best sire - breeders should be more imaginative - you could still make a Champion dog out of dogs that have never been in the show ring - it's all about conformation and temperament surely.

 

[T Hoare]

Well said, Rachel!! I personally feel that one of the problems with pedigree dogs is using champion sires all the time - imagine what state our genes would be in if only 1% of the men were allowed to father children! The gene pool shrinks when everyone wants to use the same sire.

This statement is not true, a dog doesn't have to be a champion to produce a champion. Neither parents of the Crufts BIS winning Whippet male were champions.

 

[Noise]

Well said, Rachel!! I personally feel that one of the problems with pedigree dogs is using champion sires all the time - imagine what state our genes would be in if only 1% of the men were allowed to father children! The gene pool shrinks when everyone wants to use the same sire.

This statement is not true, a dog doesn't have to be a champion to produce a champion. Neither parents of the Crufts BIS winning Whippet male were champions.

that statement just says that champion sires are overused, nothing about producing a champion.

 

[liza]

Well said, Rachel!! I personally feel that one of the problems with pedigree dogs is using champion sires all the time - imagine what state our genes would be in if only 1% of the men were allowed to father children! The gene pool shrinks when everyone wants to use the same sire.

This statement is not true, a dog doesn't have to be a champion to produce a champion. Neither parents of the Crufts BIS winning Whippet male were champions.

it doesent matter how much a a dog is used at stud providing he has no genetic faults that is my personal opinion

 

[T Hoare]

Well said, Rachel!! I personally feel that one of the problems with pedigree dogs is using champion sires all the time - imagine what state our genes would be in if only 1% of the men were allowed to father children! The gene pool shrinks when everyone wants to use the same sire.

This statement is not true, a dog doesn't have to be a champion to produce a champion. Neither parents of the Crufts BIS winning Whippet male were champions.

that statement just says that champion sires are overused, nothing about producing a champion.

The statement says that the problems are coming from champions, this is not true.

The dog does not have to be a champion to carry problems.

A dog could be used every day of the week and not be a champion and carry problems.

Most will chose a stud dog that goes with their bitch not just because it's a champion.

 

[jayp]

Well said, Rachel!! I personally feel that one of the problems with pedigree dogs is using champion sires all the time - imagine what state our genes would be in if only 1% of the men were allowed to father children! The gene pool shrinks when everyone wants to use the same sire.

This statement is not true, a dog doesn't have to be a champion to produce a champion. Neither parents of the Crufts BIS winning Whippet male were champions.

it doesent matter how much a a dog is used at stud providing he has no genetic faults that is my personal opinion

EVERY dog has deleterious genes along with every mammal including humans, there is not a dog alive without this " genetic load " the problems arise when the dog is extensively used to the exclusion of others, whatever " bad genes " he is carrying will be spread throughout the breed, it may be they have no obvious effect, it may be unknown until many years later. A bitch can only produce a few litters but a stud dog can produce hundreds as in the case of PRA in Setters which was traced to one widely used sire, only when a test became available was it discovered just how many carried this gene

So in answer to your opinion i would just like to ask How do you know the dog in question has no genetic faults ?

 

[caitlin]

Yes, thank you Janis and Noise! I wasn't saying that champion sires are all faulty - just that gene pools shrink, Janis has explained this really well (thanks again) :thumbsup: This can be a problem relatively quickly with dogs as they can breed from 2 years. I thought we all understood this - sorry!! It is the reason it is illegal to marry and reproduce with your siblings/parents etc. Sadly not illegal for dogs yet. I just don't want what has happened to other breeds to happen to our beloved whippets

 

[dolly]

It is now, no father/daughter or mother/son or brother/sister matings will now be registered with the KC

 

[jayp]

I've just met a woman on our walkies with two Cavalier spaniels.
She told me that she had had 6 cavaliers before these two, all of who had died prematurely from heart related disease. The youngest at 2yrs and the oldest at 10yrs. The dogs with her were 12yrs - on heart medication and carefully monitored and clipped in the heat etc etc due to her heart condition. and the other sweet little bitch was 15mths , bought against the lady's better judgement after her previous experiences and 'healthy' until 15mths when she too was diagnosed with a heart murmur!

The lady had not bought any of the dogs from the same breeder and had travelled to all parts of the UK to get them, she said that none were related. Is this breed really in such a terrible mess!? Can you imagine if when choosing a whippet pup you were taking a gamble as to how long you might be able to keep it alive!

I wholeheartedly support and applaud the EAWC for its health survey and wonder how the information gathered will be used. I think we're a long way off the poor health of other breeds, but I wonder if when a problem is identified, what can be done.

I know that we do have health problems in the breed already (hopefully rare) - I have an auto-immune dog, and I have noted other successful breeders allude to health problems that have caused them to avoid these bloodlines, but I wouldn't dream of publicising the breeding of my dog, and presumably nobody else is going to openly say which dogs they have had problems with, thus perpetuating the problem - the dogs with the health problems are not openly acknowledged, so cannot be avoided in breeding plans. I wonder if when the health problems are statistically proven what can be done to stop those problems/that breeding perpetuating.

This is NOT intended as a knock. I hope it doesn't come across as one -I'm genuinely curious, to the point of anxious - I take great pride in recommending my breed to others as being health free, and my meeting with the cavalier lady chilled me - imagine if alongside saying 'they're a fantastic breed, so laid back, gentle, kind, good with children etc etc' you had to add, 'but they do have heart problems/go blind early/get autoimmune diseases'.

I feel quite passionate about this issue. The cavalier lady had to have counselling with every dog she lost early! We must avoid inherant health problems at all costs - there is no satisfaction or pride in turning out pups whose owners contact you at a later date to inform you of health problems.

I agree with everything you have said here Rachel and i am absolutely certain that at an earlier stage Cavalier breeders and in fact all other breeds will have found at first just the odd one or two, then a few years later it becomes of concern as more appear, then when tests do become available the breed finally discovers the true extent of its problem

Breeders need to be ahead of the game , if any testing is offered at all for anything then take advantage, owners need to send in information to the Health Officers

Some breeders have been open about the dogs they have produced with problems of any kind, some have not

I dont think anything at all can be done about " the human condition" of apathy, unless it becomes such a problem that even the insurance companies will hike up the cost of premiums etc by this time many years will have been wasted in research time

Any ideas welcome.....

 

[liza]

I've just met a woman on our walkies with two Cavalier spaniels.
She told me that she had had 6 cavaliers before these two, all of who had died prematurely from heart related disease. The youngest at 2yrs and the oldest at 10yrs. The dogs with her were 12yrs - on heart medication and carefully monitored and clipped in the heat etc etc due to her heart condition. and the other sweet little bitch was 15mths , bought against the lady's better judgement after her previous experiences and 'healthy' until 15mths when she too was diagnosed with a heart murmur!

The lady had not bought any of the dogs from the same breeder and had travelled to all parts of the UK to get them, she said that none were related. Is this breed really in such a terrible mess!? Can you imagine if when choosing a whippet pup you were taking a gamble as to how long you might be able to keep it alive!

if all breeding stock d / b were D N A profiled then if we had any problems with our litters we could trace back the lines of the sire and dam

I wholeheartedly support and applaud the EAWC for its health survey and wonder how the information gathered will be used. I think we're a long way off the poor health of other breeds, but I wonder if when a problem is identified, what can be done.

I know that we do have health problems in the breed already (hopefully rare) - I have an auto-immune dog, and I have noted other successful breeders allude to health problems that have caused them to avoid these bloodlines, but I wouldn't dream of publicising the breeding of my dog, and presumably nobody else is going to openly say which dogs they have had problems with, thus perpetuating the problem - the dogs with the health problems are not openly acknowledged, so cannot be avoided in breeding plans. I wonder if when the health problems are statistically proven what can be done to stop those problems/that breeding perpetuating.

This is NOT intended as a knock. I hope it doesn't come across as one -I'm genuinely curious, to the point of anxious - I take great pride in recommending my breed to others as being health free, and my meeting with the cavalier lady chilled me - imagine if alongside saying 'they're a fantastic breed, so laid back, gentle, kind, good with children etc etc' you had to add, 'but they do have heart problems/go blind early/get autoimmune diseases'.

I feel quite passionate about this issue. The cavalier lady had to have counselling with every dog she lost early! We must avoid inherant health problems at all costs - there is no satisfaction or pride in turning out pups whose owners contact you at a later date to inform you of health problems.

I agree with everything you have said here Rachel and i am absolutely certain that at an earlier stage Cavalier breeders and in fact all other breeds will have found at first just the odd one or two, then a few years later it becomes of concern as more appear, then when tests do become available the breed finally discovers the true extent of its problem

Breeders need to be ahead of the game , if any testing is offered at all for anything then take advantage, owners need to send in information to the Health Officers

Some breeders have been open about the dogs they have produced with problems of any kind, some have not

I dont think anything at all can be done about " the human condition" of apathy, unless it becomes such a problem that even the insurance companies will hike up the cost of premiums etc by this time many years will have been wasted in research time

Any ideas welcome.....

 

[liza]

I've just met a woman on our walkies with two Cavalier spaniels.
She told me that she had had 6 cavaliers before these two, all of who had died prematurely from heart related disease. The youngest at 2yrs and the oldest at 10yrs. The dogs with her were 12yrs - on heart medication and carefully monitored and clipped in the heat etc etc due to her heart condition. and the other sweet little bitch was 15mths , bought against the lady's better judgement after her previous experiences and 'healthy' until 15mths when she too was diagnosed with a heart murmur!

The lady had not bought any of the dogs from the same breeder and had travelled to all parts of the UK to get them, she said that none were related. Is this breed really in such a terrible mess!? Can you imagine if when choosing a whippet pup you were taking a gamble as to how long you might be able to keep it alive!

if all breeding stock d / b were D N A profiled then if we had any problems with our litters we could trace back the lines of the sire and dam

I wholeheartedly support and applaud the EAWC for its health survey and wonder how the information gathered will be used. I think we're a long way off the poor health of other breeds, but I wonder if when a problem is identified, what can be done.

I know that we do have health problems in the breed already (hopefully rare) - I have an auto-immune dog, and I have noted other successful breeders allude to health problems that have caused them to avoid these bloodlines, but I wouldn't dream of publicising the breeding of my dog, and presumably nobody else is going to openly say which dogs they have had problems with, thus perpetuating the problem - the dogs with the health problems are not openly acknowledged, so cannot be avoided in breeding plans. I wonder if when the health problems are statistically proven what can be done to stop those problems/that breeding perpetuating.

This is NOT intended as a knock. I hope it doesn't come across as one -I'm genuinely curious, to the point of anxious - I take great pride in recommending my breed to others as being health free, and my meeting with the cavalier lady chilled me - imagine if alongside saying 'they're a fantastic breed, so laid back, gentle, kind, good with children etc etc' you had to add, 'but they do have heart problems/go blind early/get autoimmune diseases'.

I feel quite passionate about this issue. The cavalier lady had to have counselling with every dog she lost early! We must avoid inherant health problems at all costs - there is no satisfaction or pride in turning out pups whose owners contact you at a later date to inform you of health problems.

I agree with everything you have said here Rachel and i am absolutely certain that at an earlier stage Cavalier breeders and in fact all other breeds will have found at first just the odd one or two, then a few years later it becomes of concern as more appear, then when tests do become available the breed finally discovers the true extent of its problem

Breeders need to be ahead of the game , if any testing is offered at all for anything then take advantage, owners need to send in information to the Health Officers

Some breeders have been open about the dogs they have produced with problems of any kind, some have not

I dont think anything at all can be done about " the human condition" of apathy, unless it becomes such a problem that even the insurance companies will hike up the cost of premiums etc by this time many years will have been wasted in research time

Any ideas welcome.....

 

[~Annie~]

... I wouldn't dream of publicising the breeding of my dog, and presumably nobody else is going to openly say which dogs they have had problems with, thus perpetuating the problem - the dogs with the health problems are not openly acknowledged, so cannot be avoided in breeding plans ...

To me, this is the heart of the issue. I have a mini wire dachshund with myoclonic epilepsy. This is hereditary. He will die young but unusually he was diagnosed very young (at 3 rather than the usual 7 or 8 ), young enough to mean that his siblings etc. can be removed from breeding programmes. But although his breeder has been informed this has to the best of my knowledge not happened as no one wants to cause problems for others by implicating their dogs. IMHO until all the breeders in any breed are prepared to be totally open about any health problems discovered in dogs that they have bred (and another painful experience, with a whippet, brought home to me the lengths that some breeders will go to to 'bury bad news') we will never be able to guarantee the long term health of pedigree dogs. No amount of arguing over inbreeding/line breeding/over use of champ sires etc. etc. alters the fact that eradicating hereditary problems requires folk to be totally open about which dogs are suffering from what and make sure that every one understands the genetic implications of that.

Annie

 

[Seraphina]

eradicating hereditary problems requires folk to be totally open about which dogs are suffering from what and make sure that every one understands the genetic implications of that. Annie

Absolutely, but that is not going to happen unless the KC introduces some rule making it compulsory to notify of any hereditary problem. We need a database where people could look and then make a decision on which stud dog to use, this would have to be under the KC control and accessible to all members.

BUT just look at the furor caused byTWA, people got upset about their dogs being included in the database; wonder how would they react if there was a database like that but including health problems :ermm:

 

[GotWhippet?]

It may not make a difference with some breeders in regards to notifying about hereditary problems. I had an American Cocker Spaniel in 2003. His eyes looked terrible at 2 yrs of age. He ran into the window and cracked the pane. I got him tested at the doggy eye specialist. Diagnosis = cataract in one eye then not so long after the other eye was totally clouded over. I signed a form to put him on the eye register with the club. You have to provide a 3 gen pedigree and micro chip as well so I did all that. I let the breeders know and some of the people that his brothers and sisters.

Anyway. His sisters were bred from afterwards, his mother was bred from again and his father has been bred from numerous times before being exported.

Some people just don't give a rats. I didn't want to get another ACS after him. The breed problems with the ACS's makes my head spin and it also makes me thankful of how HEALTHY whippets are compared to most breeds.

There is a whippet health website in the USA. Can't remember the URL off hand though.

 

[Seraphina]

The breed problems with the ACS's makes my head spin and it also makes me thankful of how HEALTHY whippets are compared to most breeds.

I am sure cockers and other breeds were once upon the time also very healthy.

There is a whippet health website in the USA. Can't remember the URL off hand though.

Yes, but that is voluntary so the fact that the dogs you want to check out are not there means absolutely nothing.

To strike a right balance would be incredibly complicated, as if we take out of breeding programs every dog related to a line with a problem, there will be nothing left to breed with. With simple recessives it is not too difficult to breed away from, but so many diseases are polygenic, and some we have no idea how they are inherited. The only way it would work if it was compulsory to report problems into a national database; and then making sure we do not combine the lines which previously resulted in problems.

The Sydney UNI is starting database trying to establish what is there in each breed, that is a start. Next will be trying to get tests.

Health Database in Sydney

 

[Ridgesetter]

The Sydney UNI is starting database trying to establish what is there in each breed, that is a start. Next will be trying to get tests. Health Database in Sydney

Interesting. I went to the database and was a little amazed at what I read. Having had and been very actively involved RR's for over 34 years, I'd never heard of some of the diseases they listed yet having had whippets with cardiac disease, diagnosed and operated on at Sydney University, there was no mention. So I have written to Dr McGreevy to try and get an understanding of this database of diseases. Will check my other breeds as well.

I'm curious whether this list was started after compulsory microchipping or before as if before, I would question the reliability of breed identification. I've worked at RSPCA and seen several instances of dogs being wrongly identified.

Also, it was interesting to note that the 3 major 'breeder' vets in Sydney don't contribute information to this database. I'll do some checking for the other states.

If and when I receive a reply, I will post.

Still, it's a start but it always worries me that the pet owning public see such lists and then believe there is a major problem in a breed if any disease is listed - even it is a once only occurrence.

Cheers