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Rae said:
Well Naomi we were all told that we would not be able to speak - some were allowed to. We understood that we were there to listen only, but they did take a vote by club for suspending the passports, and also a vote by every person - these votes however were only to get a view of what the clubs and racers wanted, and were not binding in any way. There was a I thought I heard her say that she last saw the dog the last season that he coursed, which was 4 or 5 years ago, not when he was 4 or 5 years old - presumably she had known the dog for years so it would have been easy to identify him. Come on we would all recognise dogs that we had seen week in week out, there have been threads on here where people have recognised dogs from years back. You've had dna results from a dog that was photographed having the test done, and a letter from a very well respected vet who confirms he did the test, and someone who can independantly verify the dog in the photograph was who he was claimed to be. Other DNA results match the ones taken from the sire direct, so does this not prove that the dog on the table is the father of all of the puppies? Obviously not ...........instead its easier to accuse the Vet, the stud owner and the breeder of fraud.
Click to expand...

I have never been coursing, could someone please tell me what age dogs stop coursing? Only IMO 9 seems a little old to be coursing week in and week out. :(
 
Hi June.

Our Rose (Parkstone Sweet Harmony) was still coursing under rules at 9, she took course of the day at 8 1/2 years old

I've felt for a long time that the racing should pull away from the whippet club as they do very little for us and after the comments made at some of the racing reps meetings towards racing dogs by those representing the WC that only made my feelings stronger that racing should pull away and be self governing. (but must be fair and democratic)

BUT I dont think it should pull away as a knee jerk reaction to this situation we currently find ourselves in, I think this should be sorted out first and then the committee as it is should disassociat from the WC as IMO its not the WCRA committee thats at fault here its mandates from higher up.

any titles held IMO should be kept as in theory it would be the same organisation but under a slightly differant name, I didn't see everyone loose their car insurance when Norwich Union became Aviva?.
 
You are right Mark However if we are at a crossroads in racing maybe it is time to outline what we really want to move forward. You have seen changes in racing and I know you feel as strongly about your club as I do. What I'm asking is that we all put our thinking caps on and ask how we see the future of racing in general. we have only a few choices. Take the WCRA and ask them to change but not by venom and spite but in a positive manner.Or we form a second association but that too has to be moved on from what we have now. Racing is now evolving and we should take this opportunity to move it forward as you have all been saying for the good of racing. We are all equally responsible and in a way custodions of whippet racing and foremost the whippet breed itself. Now is the time to take stock and look to the future in a possitive way. Put your feelings to one side about this set of pups(I'm not asking you to forget them) look at how this can be prevented in the future to stop it happening again. Look into DNA testing for all dogs come up with a solution that is cost effective for all of us either as individual clubs or enmass as race goers, Look at ways to support all of our clubs both North and South.

Also on a possitive note we should also accept that the WCRA have all been voluteers and no money is involved some of these people have dedicated their time and energy at a cost to themselves. All on our behalf, so let's get away from personal attacks. There has been a lot of good come out of their efforts and this does have to be taken in to consideration. I think we should look at what we want and call for a talk in to discuss this.
 
sue greenwood said:
You are right Mark However if we are at a crossroads in racing maybe it is time to outline what we really want to move forward. You have seen changes in racing and I know you feel as strongly about your club as I do. What I'm asking is that we all put our thinking caps on and ask how we see the future of racing in general. we have only a few choices. Take the WCRA and ask them to change but not by venom and spite but in a positive manner.Or we form a second association but that too has to be moved on from what we have now. Racing is now evolving and we should take this opportunity to move it forward as you have all been saying for the good of racing. We are all equally responsible and in a way custodions of whippet racing and foremost the whippet breed itself. Now is the time to take stock and look to the future in a possitive way. Put your feelings to one side about this set of pups(I'm not asking you to forget them) look at how this can be prevented in the future to stop it happening again. Look into DNA testing for all dogs come up with a solution that is cost effective for all of us either as individual clubs or enmass as race goers, Look at ways to support all of our clubs both North and South. Also on a possitive note we should also accept that the WCRA have all been voluteers and no money is involved some of these people have dedicated their time and energy at a cost to themselves. All on our behalf, so let's get away from personal attacks. There has been a lot of good come out of their efforts and this does have to be taken in to consideration. I think we should look at what we want and call for a talk in to discuss this.
Click to expand...

Well said Sue.

There will be a way forward from this situation, but this must be settled first then like you say another meeting where we can all sit down and put ideas forward.
 
June Jonigk said:
Rae said:
I thought I heard her say that she last saw the dog the last season that he coursed, which was 4 or 5 years ago, not when he was 4 or 5 years old - presumably she had known the dog for years so it would have been easy to identify him. Come on we would all recognise dogs that we had seen week in week out, there have been threads on here where people have recognised dogs from years back. You've had dna results from a dog that was photographed having the test done, and a letter from a very well respected vet who confirms he did the test, and someone who can independantly verify the dog in the photograph was who he was claimed to be. Other DNA results match the ones taken from the sire direct, so does this not prove that the dog on the table is the father of all of the puppies? Obviously not ...........instead its easier to accuse the Vet, the stud owner and the breeder of fraud.
Click to expand...
I saw the photo of the 'sire', and it was not a photograph taken for identity purposes. Perhaps you would like to post it here Rae and let others see if they could identify him? :blink:

For the record, no one has accused the breeder of fraud :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
I wonder why not?

Instead there is a campaign of whispers, orchestrated by those skilled in the arts of mud-slinging, fuelled by jealousy and the pure enjoyment of watching people suffer.

All this is dressed up with concerns about "the purity of the breed" and "bringing racing into disrepute" etc.etc.

Then there`s the conspiracy theory suckers who are only too willing to believe that" them" above fiddle the system to help their mates up the ladder.

And of course any oik off the street is now "an expert" if he/she has manged to read a book.

I can think of at least three Science Graduates in our club but what do we know? Or the vet?

So when this new organistion is formed ,based on jealousy and hatred , how long will it last?

Gavin.

PS. How about posting this in it`s entirety if K9 is not biassed against "the litter" and its breeder?
 
sue greenwood said:
You are right Mark However if we are at a crossroads in racing maybe it is time to outline what we really want to move forward. You have seen changes in racing and I know you feel as strongly about your club as I do. What I'm asking is that we all put our thinking caps on and ask how we see the future of racing in general. we have only a few choices. Take the WCRA and ask them to change but not by venom and spite but in a positive manner.Or we form a second association but that too has to be moved on from what we have now. Racing is now evolving and we should take this opportunity to move it forward as you have all been saying for the good of racing. We are all equally responsible and in a way custodions of whippet racing and foremost the whippet breed itself. Now is the time to take stock and look to the future in a possitive way. Put your feelings to one side about this set of pups(I'm not asking you to forget them) look at how this can be prevented in the future to stop it happening again. Look into DNA testing for all dogs come up with a solution that is cost effective for all of us either as individual clubs or enmass as race goers, Look at ways to support all of our clubs both North and South. Also on a possitive note we should also accept that the WCRA have all been voluteers and no money is involved some of these people have dedicated their time and energy at a cost to themselves. All on our behalf, so let's get away from personal attacks. There has been a lot of good come out of their efforts and this does have to be taken in to consideration. I think we should look at what we want and call for a talk in to discuss this.
Click to expand...
I agree with you Sue. IMO the WCRA committee have been trying their very best over this matter. What has happened is NOT the fault of the committee members but the fault of the organisation in which they operate which is why IMO another organisation has to be formed. Also if racers have not understood how hard the WCRA have been working to resolve this matter then that is the result of the secrecy in which they operate. I strongly believe that if they published their minutes then racers would be better informed and there would less inclination to act negatively towards the WCRA.

As this whole matter has been going on for over a year now, with the severity of it's impact on whippet racing and whippet racers increasing month by month sometimes day by day I very much want to be 'properly' discussing a new organisation as IMO it would give us some hope and would be a positive act.

However because I do value what the WCRA committee members have been going through since the 3rd champs last year AND the fact that they are and have been acting in their own ways for what they see as the good of the sport AND because they are still trying to do their best it would not be fair to them to actually try to organise a meeting about forming a new organisation at this point in time. So we wait and we watch to see what happens and we continue to support the WCRA in their efforts to find a way forward.
 
Instead there is a campaign of whispers, orchestrated by those skilled in the arts of mud-slinging, fuelled by jealousy and the pure enjoyment of watching people suffer.
Click to expand...
What a ridiculous comment. I certainly do not "enjoy watching people suffer". Having seen the visible distress that the bitch owners are suffering, I would hope that this situation is resolved as swiftly as possible. Many people have stressed this is not personal Gavin, I wish you would stop making it appear that way, it serves no purpose apart from to irritate the wound!
 
gavintasker said:
June Jonigk said:
Rae said:
I thought I heard her say that she last saw the dog the last season that he coursed, which was 4 or 5 years ago, not when he was 4 or 5 years old - presumably she had known the dog for years so it would have been easy to identify him. Come on we would all recognise dogs that we had seen week in week out, there have been threads on here where people have recognised dogs from years back. You've had dna results from a dog that was photographed having the test done, and a letter from a very well respected vet who confirms he did the test, and someone who can independantly verify the dog in the photograph was who he was claimed to be. Other DNA results match the ones taken from the sire direct, so does this not prove that the dog on the table is the father of all of the puppies? Obviously not ...........instead its easier to accuse the Vet, the stud owner and the breeder of fraud.
Click to expand...
I saw the photo of the 'sire', and it was not a photograph taken for identity purposes. Perhaps you would like to post it here Rae and let others see if they could identify him? :blink:

For the record, no one has accused the breeder of fraud :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
I wonder why not?

Instead there is a campaign of whispers, orchestrated by those skilled in the arts of mud-slinging, fuelled by jealousy and the pure enjoyment of watching people suffer.

All this is dressed up with concerns about "the purity of the breed" and "bringing racing into disrepute" etc.etc.

Then there`s the conspiracy theory suckers who are only too willing to believe that" them" above fiddle the system to help their mates up the ladder.

And of course any oik off the street is now "an expert" if he/she has manged to read a book.

I can think of at least three Science Graduates in our club but what do we know? Or the vet?

So when this new organistion is formed ,based on jealousy and hatred , how long will it last?

Gavin.

PS. How about posting this in it`s entirety if K9 is not biassed against "the litter" and its breeder?
Click to expand...
Gavin if you had attended the meeting then 1) you could have provided much needed emotional support for your friends. 2) you might have been able to open your mind and see the 'other' point of view better.

IMO there is little point in going over 'the issue' anymore and certainly NOT in such an offensive manner. The dye has been cast and now all we can do is wait. You do your cause no favours at all. But if it makes you feel better then maybe it does some good to someone at least in the short term.

Sue talked about venom and spite in her post. Well here you go Sue venom and spite in bucket loads and it's NOT directed towards the WCRA but whippet racers whose crime it is, is to have an opinion.

As a body we have been repeatedly threatened, verbally abused and wrongly accused for months and months now.
 
BeeJay said:
gavintasker said:
June Jonigk said:
Rae said:
I thought I heard her say that she last saw the dog the last season that he coursed, which was 4 or 5 years ago, not when he was 4 or 5 years old - presumably she had known the dog for years so it would have been easy to identify him. Come on we would all recognise dogs that we had seen week in week out, there have been threads on here where people have recognised dogs from years back. You've had dna results from a dog that was photographed having the test done, and a letter from a very well respected vet who confirms he did the test, and someone who can independantly verify the dog in the photograph was who he was claimed to be. Other DNA results match the ones taken from the sire direct, so does this not prove that the dog on the table is the father of all of the puppies? Obviously not ...........instead its easier to accuse the Vet, the stud owner and the breeder of fraud.
Click to expand...
I saw the photo of the 'sire', and it was not a photograph taken for identity purposes. Perhaps you would like to post it here Rae and let others see if they could identify him? :blink:

For the record, no one has accused the breeder of fraud :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
I wonder why not?

Instead there is a campaign of whispers, orchestrated by those skilled in the arts of mud-slinging, fuelled by jealousy and the pure enjoyment of watching people suffer.

All this is dressed up with concerns about "the purity of the breed" and "bringing racing into disrepute" etc.etc.

Then there`s the conspiracy theory suckers who are only too willing to believe that" them" above fiddle the system to help their mates up the ladder.

And of course any oik off the street is now "an expert" if he/she has manged to read a book.

I can think of at least three Science Graduates in our club but what do we know? Or the vet?

So when this new organistion is formed ,based on jealousy and hatred , how long will it last?

Gavin.

PS. How about posting this in it`s entirety if K9 is not biassed against "the litter" and its breeder?
Click to expand...
Gavin if you had attended the meeting then 1) you could have provided much needed emotional support for your friends. 2) you might have been able to open your mind and see the 'other' point of view better.

IMO there is little point in going over 'the issue' anymore and certainly NOT in such an offensive manner. The dye has been cast and now all we can do is wait. You do your cause no favours at all. But if it makes you feel better then maybe it does some good to someone at least in the short term.

Sue talked about venom and spite in her post. Well here you go Sue venom and spite in bucket loads and it's NOT directed towards the WCRA but whippet racers whose crime it is, is to have an opinion.

As a body we have been repeatedly threatened, verbally abused and wrongly accused for months and months now.
Click to expand...
Spot on Barbara, you should see some of the PMs he has sent to me :eek: Spite and venom? He should be looking closer to home.

PS I would have removed his post, but if I do, I get accused of being biased. I think its best to let people see where the spite and venom is coming from :thumbsup:
 
I've just had a very interesting conversation with the KC person responsible for breed clubs. I have been told that any breed club (in our case the WCRA being part of The Whippet Club) can refuse entry to their events/competitions to ANY KC registered dogs as long as it is agreed to do so by the committee.

So after last Sunday's vote I can't see what the problem is anymore. Of course as always I am prepared to be enlightened by those who know better. I did think of just mentioning this to a few friends but as I'm in favour of openness I decided to post it on here instead.
 
sue greenwood said:
You are right Mark However if we are at a crossroads in racing maybe it is time to outline what we really want to move forward. You have seen changes in racing and I know you feel as strongly about your club as I do. What I'm asking is that we all put our thinking caps on and ask how we see the future of racing in general. we have only a few choices. Take the WCRA and ask them to change but not by venom and spite but in a positive manner.Or we form a second association but that too has to be moved on from what we have now. Racing is now evolving and we should take this opportunity to move it forward as you have all been saying for the good of racing. We are all equally responsible and in a way custodions of whippet racing and foremost the whippet breed itself. Now is the time to take stock and look to the future in a possitive way. Put your feelings to one side about this set of pups(I'm not asking you to forget them) look at how this can be prevented in the future to stop it happening again. Look into DNA testing for all dogs come up with a solution that is cost effective for all of us either as individual clubs or enmass as race goers, Look at ways to support all of our clubs both North and South. Also on a possitive note we should also accept that the WCRA have all been voluteers and no money is involved some of these people have dedicated their time and energy at a cost to themselves. All on our behalf, so let's get away from personal attacks. There has been a lot of good come out of their efforts and this does have to be taken in to consideration. I think we should look at what we want and call for a talk in to discuss this.
Click to expand...
Excellent post Sue. :thumbsup:
 
BeeJay said:
I've just had a very interesting conversation with the KC person responsible for breed clubs. I have been told that any breed club (in our case the WCRA being part of The Whippet Club) can refuse entry to their events/competitions to ANY KC registered dogs as long as it is agreed to do so by the committee.
So after last Sunday's vote I can't see what the problem is anymore. Of course as always I am prepared to be enlightened by those who know better. I did think of just mentioning this to a few friends but as I'm in favour of openness I decided to post it on here instead.
Click to expand...

Well that certainly does put a different light on matters. I think you should tell this to the WC/WCRA Barbara as they seem to think differently.
 
gavintasker said:
I wonder why not?Instead there is a campaign of whispers, orchestrated by those skilled in the arts of mud-slinging, fuelled by jealousy and the pure enjoyment of watching people suffer.

All this is dressed up with concerns about "the purity of the breed" and "bringing racing into disrepute" etc.etc.

Then there`s the conspiracy theory suckers who are only too willing to believe that" them" above fiddle the system to help their mates up the ladder.

And of course any oik off the street is now "an expert" if he/she has manged to read a book.

I can think of at least three Science Graduates in our club but what do we know? Or the vet?

So when this new organistion is formed ,based on jealousy and hatred , how long will it last?

Gavin.

PS. How about posting this in it`s entirety if K9 is not biassed against "the litter" and its breeder?
Click to expand...
Gavin

What are you on :wacko: HOW dear you say we enjoy watching people suffer. This sorry affair is affecting us ALL !!!!! i may not be a Science Graduate but i am not an idiot either, we are all on both sides of this argument united in the fact we love our dogs and our sport.It is very unfortunate that so many ????? still have us confused and disappointed.

We all just want to unit fairly and race our bl---y Pedi Whippets. Like it or not Gavin the ??????????? have to be answered for us all to move on.

WHAT EVER THE OUTCOME :angry: :angry:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
BeeJay said:
I've just had a very interesting conversation with the KC person responsible for breed clubs. I have been told that any breed club (in our case the WCRA being part of The Whippet Club) can refuse entry to their events/competitions to ANY KC registered dogs as long as it is agreed to do so by the committee.
So after last Sunday's vote I can't see what the problem is anymore. Of course as always I am prepared to be enlightened by those who know better. I did think of just mentioning this to a few friends but as I'm in favour of openness I decided to post it on here instead.
Click to expand...
With reference to the KC. In the Rules and Regs put in schedules for shows, this includes the entry form to be filled in by the exhibitor, there is a rule that says.

The Committee reserves to itself the right to refuse entries.

If this was included in the entry form for all PWR Clubs then the various club committees would have that right. At least people would know where they stood.

I think it would be advisable to contact the KC regarding this, it may only apply to KC Licensed shows.

It could also be written into your clubs constitutions.

Just a thought.

Just hope all this can be sorted out properly.
 
bertha said:
BeeJay said:
I've just had a very interesting conversation with the KC person responsible for breed clubs. I have been told that any breed club (in our case the WCRA being part of The Whippet Club) can refuse entry to their events/competitions to ANY KC registered dogs as long as it is agreed to do so by the committee.
So after last Sunday's vote I can't see what the problem is anymore. Of course as always I am prepared to be enlightened by those who know better. I did think of just mentioning this to a few friends but as I'm in favour of openness I decided to post it on here instead.
Click to expand...
With reference to the KC. In the Rules and Regs put in schedules for shows, this includes the entry form to be filled in by the exhibitor, there is a rule that says.

The Committee reserves to itself the right to refuse entries.

If this was included in the entry form for all PWR Clubs then the various club committees would have that right. At least people would know where they stood.

I think it would be advisable to contact the KC regarding this, it may only apply to KC Licensed shows.

It could also be written into your clubs constitutions.

Just a thought.

Just hope all this can be sorted out properly.
Click to expand...
Thanks Ann. If I've read you correctly then all the WCRA has to do is follow the clubs and put 'The Committee reserves to itself the right to refuse entries'

on their entry forms and bingo! Matter resolved.

I say follow the clubs in that matter because the clubs who have opted out of running for superstars points at their opens have in fact alredy done this. As obviously this is normal practice for breed club and other show committees to have this rule then I really can see what the problem is and why the WCRA are being told that they can't do it themselves.

Surely if an event is run outside KC control then the committee should have even more freedom to make their own decisions.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Okay I've had a look at The Whippet Club schedule from their members limited single breed show 24th January 2009.

Rule number 8. The Committee reserves to itself the right to refuse entries.

Thanks again Ann, it wasn't that I didn't believe you I just wanted to find the actual rule and quote it on here.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
BeeJay said:
Okay I've had a look at The Whippet Club schedule from their members limited single breed show 24th January 2009.
Rule number 8. The Committee reserves to itself the right to refuse entries.

Thanks again Ann, it wasn't that I didn't believe you I just wanted to find the actual rule and quote it on here.
Click to expand...
You've got it!!!!! :lol:

Being sec of a breed club I do know these things! :-
 
junefoster8 said:
gavintasker said:
I wonder why not?Instead there is a campaign of whispers, orchestrated by those skilled in the arts of mud-slinging, fuelled by jealousy and the pure enjoyment of watching people suffer.

All this is dressed up with concerns about "the purity of the breed" and "bringing racing into disrepute" etc.etc.

Then there`s the conspiracy theory suckers who are only too willing to believe that" them" above fiddle the system to help their mates up the ladder.

And of course any oik off the street is now "an expert" if he/she has manged to read a book.

I can think of at least three Science Graduates in our club but what do we know? Or the vet?

So when this new organistion is formed ,based on jealousy and hatred , how long will it last?

Gavin.

PS. How about posting this in it`s entirety if K9 is not biassed against "the litter" and its breeder?
Click to expand...
Gavin

What are you on :wacko: HOW dare you say we enjoy watching people suffer. This sorry affair is affecting us ALL !!!!! i may not be a Science Graduate but i am not an idiot either, we are all on both sides of this argument united in the fact we love our dogs and our sport.It is very unfortunate that so many ????? still have us confused and disappointed.

We all just want to unite fairly and race our bl---y Pedi Whippets. Like it or not Gavin the ??????????? have to be answered for us all to move on.

WHAT EVER THE OUTCOME :angry: :angry:
Click to expand...
 
I agree with you June you don,t have to be a science graduate to know when something is wrong.

and we don,t want to see anyone suffer but we are not stupid enough to stand by and see our sport destroyed.

all we can do is put our faith in the wcra to do right by the pedigree racers and ignore the venom from certain quarters :(

and yes I often read books they can be quite informative :)
 
Mark Roberts said:
sue greenwood said:
You are right Mark However if we are at a crossroads in racing maybe it is time to outline what we really want to move forward. You have seen changes in racing and I know you feel as strongly about your club as I do. What I'm asking is that we all put our thinking caps on and ask how we see the future of racing in general. we have only a few choices. Take the WCRA and ask them to change but not by venom and spite but in a positive manner.Or we form a second association but that too has to be moved on from what we have now. Racing is now evolving and we should take this opportunity to move it forward as you have all been saying for the good of racing. We are all equally responsible and in a way custodions of whippet racing and foremost the whippet breed itself. Now is the time to take stock and look to the future in a possitive way. Put your feelings to one side about this set of pups(I'm not asking you to forget them) look at how this can be prevented in the future to stop it happening again. Look into DNA testing for all dogs come up with a solution that is cost effective for all of us either as individual clubs or enmass as race goers, Look at ways to support all of our clubs both North and South. Also on a possitive note we should also accept that the WCRA have all been voluteers and no money is involved some of these people have dedicated their time and energy at a cost to themselves. All on our behalf, so let's get away from personal attacks. There has been a lot of good come out of their efforts and this does have to be taken in to consideration. I think we should look at what we want and call for a talk in to discuss this.
Click to expand...

Well said Sue.

There will be a way forward from this situation, but this must be settled first then like you say another meeting where we can all sit down and put ideas forward.
Click to expand...
The problem with waiting for this situation (i.e. Sue and Julia's pups) to solve itself could take more time than it's worth. This situation could go round and round in circles waisting everyones energy and time for months . It will also not temper peoples feelings either. If we all start to think positive and look to the future of racing and start now, not only will we come out of this stronger we will be building a better future for racing. If we dont start to think positive and look at the whole picture then you are doing what you are accusing the WCRA of doing and burying our heads in the sand. Now is the time to look to ways of improving what we have and to help prevent this same situatuation occuring again and unfortunately sending racing backwards. Why not have all our dogs DNA tested. At least this is away forward. No one can be accussed of cheating. It also shows we can be positive and stand together for the good of racing now and in the future.
 
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