Wcra Reps Meeting Venue Change

[Mark Roberts]

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IMO

if a seconder takes the sample then they should also take photoes at the time of taking the sample and keep them so that if at a later date theres any question they could refere to the photos.

BUT IMO the best way forward would for dogs to have to be tattood/chipped, seconders taking the swop could then easyly check ear markings matched but all seconders would then need a universal chip reader (about £75 I think) but who then foots that bill?

but the above would remove any doubt about a dog if a chip was already in place as chips cant (in theopry be copied) but ear tattoos can.

 

[Trish]

i had one of mine tattooed when he was little and all the information on him is on THE NATIONAL DOG TATTOOING REGISTER , so i think tattooing is one way forward but the down side is the cost of £25.

 

[junefoster8]

i had one of mine tattooed when he was little and all the information on him is on THE NATIONAL DOG TATTOOING REGISTER , so i think tattooing is one way forward but the down side is the cost of £25.

Does tattooing hurt? Only when i had mine it nearly killed me. i wouldn't want to put my boys through that (w00t)

 

[IanGerman]

It's 4 digits - not a recreation of Da Vinci's The Last Supper

 

[Trish]

i had one of mine tattooed when he was little and all the information on him is on THE NATIONAL DOG TATTOOING REGISTER , so i think tattooing is one way forward but the down side is the cost of £25.

Does tattooing hurt? Only when i had mine it nearly killed me. i wouldn't want to put my boys through that (w00t)

jacob did cry out but he also cried out just the same with his injections , its over in 1 second , the women rubbed loads of ink onto his ear then the gadget she used which looks like a pair of pliers ( foam on one side and the tiny needles on the other) was placed on his ear and one squeeze and its done,then lots more ink was rubbed into his ear again , he loved that bit and was nearly asleep

 

[Garry Comber]

i had one of mine tattooed when he was little and all the information on him is on THE NATIONAL DOG TATTOOING REGISTER .

Can you look up dogs on THE NATIONAL DOG TATTOOING REGISTER ie is it available to the public or do you just know your dogs are on it?

 

[beaker]

i'm not so sure about relying 100% on tattooing, ok for secondary ID but i wouldn't rely on it for primary.

i've had some of mine done and over time they have faded and blurred

5 gold stars to the person who can figure this out correctly :thumbsup:

 

[junefoster8]

It's 4 digits - not a recreation of Da Vinci's The Last Supper

Well Ian not exactly The Last Supper but it still hurt :- . Still not convinced its what i would want for the Boys

 

[LJH]

It's 4 digits - not a recreation of Da Vinci's The Last Supper

Well Ian not exactly The Last Supper but it still hurt :- . Still not convinced its what i would want for the Boys

Perhaps you should have had it on your ear instead June!!

Honest all of mine are tattooed. They all squealed for a second and then instantly forgot it when fed a juicy treat, Typical whippets!

Jools is 9 now and his is still very clear. I'll try to remember to phone the NDTR to see if info is confidential or not.

P.S. the tattoo looks great.

 

[junefoster8]

It's 4 digits - not a recreation of Da Vinci's The Last Supper

Well Ian not exactly The Last Supper but it still hurt :- . Still not convinced its what i would want for the Boys

Perhaps you should have had it on your ear instead June!!

Honest all of mine are tattooed. They all squealed for a second and then instantly forgot it when fed a juicy treat, Typical whippets!

Jools is 9 now and his is still very clear. I'll try to remember to phone the NDTR to see if info is confidential or not.

P.S. the tattoo looks great.

Okay i no i am a wimp (w00t) i would have to get Al to take them. he's got loads of tat's and he said they never hurt at all. :unsure:

 

[June Jonigk]

I had WCRCh Talk of the Devil DNA'd, the test was witnessed by my next-door-neighbour who is a solicitor. If a club seconder or vet is not available at the time to witness the test being carried out, what about considering someone who is allowed to witness human passport applications?

The flaw with this is that your solicitor friend may not recognise your dog as opposed to another similarly marked dog. So IF someone wanted to cheat the system,a .'ringer' could be used. Did your friend see you place the sample in a sealed envelope and watch you post it?

I know this is an extreme senario, I am just playing devils advocate. On the whole I am in favour and have had Xplicit tested,but didn't consider a witness at the time. Guess I just thought, at the time, trust was enough. This does need to be thought through very carefully. Perhaps the WCRA need a brainstorming exercise which might throw up a solution.

What about two officials running a stand at the champs and/or other opens. People buy a kit, fill in the paperwork, then return to the stand with the dog + passport for the sample to be taken. This is then sent by the WCRA in one batch.

Please feel free to pick holes in this idea. Perhaps this way we can find a good system

We have had Mighty Mouse DNA profiled too, as have a lot of responsible stud dog owners, but I would be happy to have a witnessed sample taken also, and then he could be placed on a DNA'd stud dog register. IMO the only way for this to work, is that the samples be witnessed by someone who can identify the dog. A seconder in racing would be preferable - I hardly see the point of seconders who are not in racing, as they would have no idea of whether the pup/s looked like their relatives - which is part of the problem we had recently.

 

[Stripey]

Our dogs are microchipped which is £23.50 per dog at our (usually quite expensive) vet. They showed no discomfort, and the chips have been improved since they were first used and do not now 'migrate' to other areas. My 2 parrots are microchipped too, with no anaesthetic or discomfort. I don't understand the reluctance to chip dogs, as well as identification at the time of DNA testing, the chip ensures your dog or parrot can be traced back to you at all times.

 

[slimfast]

I had WCRCh Talk of the Devil DNA'd, the test was witnessed by my next-door-neighbour who is a solicitor. If a club seconder or vet is not available at the time to witness the test being carried out, what about considering someone who is allowed to witness human passport applications?

The flaw with this is that your solicitor friend may not recognise your dog as opposed to another similarly marked dog. So IF someone wanted to cheat the system,a .'ringer' could be used. Did your friend see you place the sample in a sealed envelope and watch you post it?

I know this is an extreme senario, I am just playing devils advocate. On the whole I am in favour and have had Xplicit tested,but didn't consider a witness at the time. Guess I just thought, at the time, trust was enough. This does need to be thought through very carefully. Perhaps the WCRA need a brainstorming exercise which might throw up a solution.

What about two officials running a stand at the champs and/or other opens. People buy a kit, fill in the paperwork, then return to the stand with the dog + passport for the sample to be taken. This is then sent by the WCRA in one batch.

Please feel free to pick holes in this idea. Perhaps this way we can find a good system

We have had Mighty Mouse DNA profiled too, as have a lot of responsible stud dog owners, but I would be happy to have a witnessed sample taken also, and then he could be placed on a DNA'd stud dog register. IMO the only way for this to work, is that the samples be witnessed by someone who can identify the dog. A seconder in racing would be preferable - I hardly see the point of seconders who are not in racing, as they would have no idea of whether the pup/s looked like their relatives - which is part of the problem we had recently.

are you saying that i am not a responible stud dog owner june ? we have had are dogs chipped thats good enough for me if the wcra want to do a dna they are welcome to if they pay for it . john

 

[Mark Roberts]

as a seconder I wouldnt be 100% happy signing the DNA paper work unless the dogs I were swobbing had some form of perminant id ie: chip/tattoo but if chips were used all seconders would in theory need a chip reader so they could verify the chips number.

 

[Stripey]

as a seconder I wouldnt be 100% happy signing the DNA paper work unless the dogs I were swobbing had some form of perminant id ie: chip/tattoo but if chips were used all seconders would in theory need a chip reader so they could verify the chips number.

The cost of a battery powered reader is about £80 - not a huge amount if purchased by each club, or maybe clubs could share if practical.

 

[Mark Roberts]

as a seconder I wouldnt be 100% happy signing the DNA paper work unless the dogs I were swobbing had some form of perminant id ie: chip/tattoo but if chips were used all seconders would in theory need a chip reader so they could verify the chips number.

The cost of a battery powered reader is about £80 - not a huge amount if purchased by each club, or maybe clubs could share if practical.

IMO it should be the WCRA that supply these to seconders if thats the route they decide to go.

 

[June Jonigk]

We have had Mighty Mouse DNA profiled too, as have a lot of responsible stud dog owners, but I would be happy to have a witnessed sample taken also, and then he could be placed on a DNA'd stud dog register. IMO the only way for this to work, is that the samples be witnessed by someone who can identify the dog. A seconder in racing would be preferable - I hardly see the point of seconders who are not in racing, as they would have no idea of whether the pup/s looked like their relatives - which is part of the problem we had recently.

are you saying that i am not a responible stud dog owner june ? we have had are dogs chipped thats good enough for me if the wcra want to do a dna they are welcome to if they pay for it . john

Now would I say that about you John and Elaine? o :sweating: :huggles:

 

[June Jonigk]

as a seconder I wouldnt be 100% happy signing the DNA paper work unless the dogs I were swobbing had some form of perminant id ie: chip/tattoo but if chips were used all seconders would in theory need a chip reader so they could verify the chips number.

The cost of a battery powered reader is about £80 - not a huge amount if purchased by each club, or maybe clubs could share if practical.

IMO it should be the WCRA that supply these to seconders if thats the route they decide to go.

You wouldn't need a chip or tattoo Mark, you would have the identifying photographs when you were doing the passport. If DNA was taken at passporting, eventually, probably within a 3 years, 99% of stud dogs would be on record anyway. Other likely dogs used at stud already in racing would be identified quite easily by their passports :thumbsup: By taking DNA at passporting stage you aren't identifying the parents, just the dog you are taking DNA from. If there is any doubt of parentage later on, the profile can be used to check that dogs parentage.

 

[Mark Roberts]

as a seconder I wouldnt be 100% happy signing the DNA paper work unless the dogs I were swobbing had some form of perminant id ie: chip/tattoo but if chips were used all seconders would in theory need a chip reader so they could verify the chips number.

The cost of a battery powered reader is about £80 - not a huge amount if purchased by each club, or maybe clubs could share if practical.

IMO it should be the WCRA that supply these to seconders if thats the route they decide to go.

You wouldn't need a chip or tattoo Mark, you would have the identifying photographs when you were doing the passport. If DNA was taken at passporting, eventually, probably within a 3 years, 99% of stud dogs would be on record anyway. Other likely dogs used at stud already in racing would be identified quite easily by their passports :thumbsup: By taking DNA at passporting stage you aren't identifying the parents, just the dog you are taking DNA from. If there is any doubt of parentage later on, the profile can be used to check that dogs parentage.

But surely what we are all after is removing any doubt at all?

the only way to do that IMO is for all dos applying for a passport to be perminantly identifyable.

 

[June Jonigk]

as a seconder I wouldnt be 100% happy signing the DNA paper work unless the dogs I were swobbing had some form of perminant id ie: chip/tattoo but if chips were used all seconders would in theory need a chip reader so they could verify the chips number.

The cost of a battery powered reader is about £80 - not a huge amount if purchased by each club, or maybe clubs could share if practical.

IMO it should be the WCRA that supply these to seconders if thats the route they decide to go.

You wouldn't need a chip or tattoo Mark, you would have the identifying photographs when you were doing the passport. If DNA was taken at passporting, eventually, probably within a 3 years, 99% of stud dogs would be on record anyway. Other likely dogs used at stud already in racing would be identified quite easily by their passports :thumbsup: By taking DNA at passporting stage you aren't identifying the parents, just the dog you are taking DNA from. If there is any doubt of parentage later on, the profile can be used to check that dogs parentage.

But surely what we are all after is removing any doubt at all?

the only way to do that IMO is for all dos applying for a passport to be perminantly identifyable.

I know what you're saying Mark, but dogs should be able to be identified at the time of swabbing and passporting (at the same time) by their markings, toenail colours, etc. I know in some cases this is going to be difficult unless they have any distinguishing markings. I know there are a lot of blue dogs who look the same, but many of them have small white markings on chest or feet. Once the dog is identified by this means, and DNA taken, then that dogs profile is on record for further testing if required. I do not feel you can ask all owners to have a foreign body inserted into their dogs necks, when many of us know the possible problems associated with this. Ear tattooing is not preferable either - personally I find it horrific! They do fade, and are able to be copied - I see no difference in identifying by a tattoo number, or by coat colour/markings/toe nail colours etc. Tattoo numbers can be reproduced, but coat colours and markings can't