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6 month old puppy still pees in crate at night but not in day!???
- Thread starter Dozza
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@merlina , I am not “the USA”.
I am not “ranked” or rated by some unnamed organization or anonymous ‘expert’, on a scorecard somewhere, after comparing me with my spozed peer in the UK, China, Brazil, Kazakhstan, etc.
I am one person, who happens to be a citizen of the U-S merely as an accident of birth; had my mother lived elsewhere at the time, I would have been born in another country, & be a citizen of that nation, instead. // So what? — it’s not as tho the U-S is the be-all & end-all of democracies, there are plenty of nations who IMO are far more democratic than the current iteration of Merika.
If U think I am a lousy owner for crating my dog during my work hours, feel free to despise me, LOL - that’s fine. It’s no skin off my nose, & my dogs have had good lives, with vet care, loads of interesting activity, dog buddies, hobbies of their own, & plenty of attention when I wasn’t at work.
As a result, I had no social life outside of dogs - I volunteered for years with rescues and shelters, & donated my time, walking dogs to help maintain their housetraining or at least their instinct for cleanliness, & doing pro bono B-Mod to help dogs become adoptable.
Sneer all U like, everyone must deal with the circs they find themselves in, & in the USA, if U are below CEO or Admin Level, & not salaried, then U can’t afford a 5-day-per-week dog walker. Flat fact.
That means U give up on dogs & keep fish or houseplants or cats, or U find a work-around in order to have a dog. :shrug: Trying to guilt-trip me is wasted time.
- terry
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@merlina , I am not “the USA”.
I am not “ranked” or rated by some unnamed organization or anonymous ‘expert’, on a scorecard somewhere, after comparing me with my spozed peer in the UK, China, Brazil, Kazakhstan, etc.
I am one person, who happens to be a citizen of the U-S merely as an accident of birth; had my mother lived elsewhere at the time, I would have been born in another country, & be a citizen of that nation, instead. // So what? — it’s not as tho the U-S is the be-all & end-all of democracies, there are plenty of nations who IMO are far more democratic than the current iteration of Merika.
If U think I am a lousy owner for crating my dog during my work hours, feel free to despise me, LOL - that’s fine.
It’s no skin off my nose, & my dogs have had good lives, with vet care, loads of interesting activity, dog buddies, hobbies of their own, & plenty of attention when I wasn’t at work.As a result, I had no social life outside of dogs - I volunteered for years with rescues and shelters, & donated my time, walking dogs to help maintain their housetraining or at least their instinct for cleanliness, & doing pro bono B-Mod to help dogs become adoptable.
Sneer all U like, everyone must deal with the circs they find themselves in, & in the USA, if U are below CEO or Admin Level, & not salaried, then U can’t afford a 5-day-per-week dog walker. Flat fact.
That means U give up on dogs & keep fish or houseplants or cats, or U find a work-around in order to have a dog. :shrug: Trying to guilt-trip me is wasted time.
- terry
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There's a big difference between disagreeing with someone's opinion and calling them a lousy owner or guilt-tripping them. I personally think 7 hours is too long for a dog to be crated for, but that doesn't make me think LfL is a bad or uncaring owner - it's obvious she is not. We just have different opinions.
All opinions are freely given here, with the sole aim of helping the person and, even more so, their dog. I consider, and am grateful for, all advice offered to me, even when it's contradictory and even when I know it's something I would never actually do. Even the person who suggested acupuncture the other day for my dog who is fear aggressive and can recognise a 'practitioner' from 100 yards. It's best just to thank people for their freely given time and effort, consider with an open mind what they say, and maybe try it rather than just ignoring it if's not what you wanted to hear.
All opinions are freely given here, with the sole aim of helping the person and, even more so, their dog. I consider, and am grateful for, all advice offered to me, even when it's contradictory and even when I know it's something I would never actually do. Even the person who suggested acupuncture the other day for my dog who is fear aggressive and can recognise a 'practitioner' from 100 yards. It's best just to thank people for their freely given time and effort, consider with an open mind what they say, and maybe try it rather than just ignoring it if's not what you wanted to hear.
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I think the OP has misunderstood the nature of this forum: it's for people who care passionately about dogs and share views, information and advice about how best to live with them as our companions. That includes disagreeing with practises that don't seem to promote canine welfare. Or what's the point?
And I agree with the last post: try the advice first.
And I agree with the last post: try the advice first.
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@Dozza ,
I wasn’t actually “agreeing” with U, as this isn’t really an issue we can take sides on... the UK is markedly different from the USA, citizens in the U-S are much more at risk than cits in Scotland, Wales, N Ireland, & Britain.
Over 75% of all personal bankruptcies in the U-S begin as medical problems -
U get sick or are hurt, U can’t work, the car is repossessed, U can’t get to work w/o it once U recover (if U recover), U are evicted for nonpayment, U can’t find housing U can afford, U can’t get a job b/c U’re homeless with no fixed address, & things rapidly go downhill.
In the U-K, medical problems do not send the dominoes crashing down the line, making it impossible to have a safe place to live, or forcing parents to leave their children in the care of relatives & move hundreds of miles away for work, or forcing pet owners to surrender their pets to shelters or rescues b/c they cannot afford to feed them, let alone provide vet-care when it’s needed.
In the aftermath of the 2008 Great Recession, hundreds of thousands of dogs, cats, rabbits, birds, herps, & other pets across the U-S were surrendered or even abandoned; houses taken by the banks, or apts where tenants were evicted, often were left with pets abandoned... for days or weeks, with no care, often with no food.
Municipal shelters were drowning in surplus pets; the hemorrhage wasn’t stemmed for several years, this was not a short-term problem. It was an ongoing nightmare.
That one factor: removing medical care from the list of catastrophes that can swamp U - that makes an enormous difference in one’s personal security. It’s one less financial reef to strike & sink Ur life.
Unemployment is also very different, in the 2 nations; after the 1981 Ronnie RayGun recession, I came within 2-weeks of losing all benefits & being left with zero income, despite desperate efforts on my part to find work.
In some regions, white men with high-school diplomas, or even with college degrees, who were in their prime earning years (18 to 35) saw unemployment rates as high as 25 to 30%, & the figures were worse for men of color. // For the 1st time ever, many homeless shelters reported having entire families, young children with both parents, in need of shelter & food.
“Normally” shelters prior to that housed overwhelmingly single men, & sometimes single women w/o children, or a rare widowed woman, but 90% of the popn needing shelter was unmarried men, or divorced men. // The 1981 recession was a watershed change in shelter demographics.
Life in the UK is also changing — & not in a good way; to become more like life in the U-S; the social safety-net is being picked apart.
I do not know if basic benefits, medical care, & other social supports will continue in the U-K. // A living wage may also become a rare benefit.
It is entirely possible in the USA to work 60 hours & more a week, yet need both food stamps & housing, b/c U cannot afford either. IMO, that shouldn’t be true; anyone who works FT & is a reliable employee should be able to provide themselves with adequate food & clean, safe, simple shelter.
That is not an unreasonable expectation. But in fact, it is bitterly true.
Pets become another unaffordable luxury when basic needs are unmet.
- terry
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@Dozza ,
I wasn’t actually “agreeing” with U, as this isn’t really an issue we can take sides on... the UK is markedly different from the USA, citizens in the U-S are much more at risk than cits in Scotland, Wales, N Ireland, & Britain.
Over 75% of all personal bankruptcies in the U-S begin as medical problems -
U get sick or are hurt, U can’t work, the car is repossessed, U can’t get to work w/o it once U recover (if U recover), U are evicted for nonpayment, U can’t find housing U can afford, U can’t get a job b/c U’re homeless with no fixed address, & things rapidly go downhill.
In the U-K, medical problems do not send the dominoes crashing down the line, making it impossible to have a safe place to live, or forcing parents to leave their children in the care of relatives & move hundreds of miles away for work, or forcing pet owners to surrender their pets to shelters or rescues b/c they cannot afford to feed them, let alone provide vet-care when it’s needed.
In the aftermath of the 2008 Great Recession, hundreds of thousands of dogs, cats, rabbits, birds, herps, & other pets across the U-S were surrendered or even abandoned; houses taken by the banks, or apts where tenants were evicted, often were left with pets abandoned... for days or weeks, with no care, often with no food.
Municipal shelters were drowning in surplus pets; the hemorrhage wasn’t stemmed for several years, this was not a short-term problem. It was an ongoing nightmare.
That one factor: removing medical care from the list of catastrophes that can swamp U - that makes an enormous difference in one’s personal security. It’s one less financial reef to strike & sink Ur life.
Unemployment is also very different, in the 2 nations; after the 1981 Ronnie RayGun recession, I came within 2-weeks of losing all benefits & being left with zero income, despite desperate efforts on my part to find work.
In some regions, white men with high-school diplomas, or even with college degrees, who were in their prime earning years (18 to 35) saw unemployment rates as high as 25 to 30%, & the figures were worse for men of color. // For the 1st time ever, many homeless shelters reported having entire families, young children with both parents, in need of shelter & food.
“Normally” shelters prior to that housed overwhelmingly single men, & sometimes single women w/o children, or a rare widowed woman, but 90% of the popn needing shelter was unmarried men, or divorced men. // The 1981 recession was a watershed change in shelter demographics.
Life in the UK is also changing — & not in a good way; to become more like life in the U-S; the social safety-net is being picked apart.
I do not know if basic benefits, medical care, & other social supports will continue in the U-K. // A living wage may also become a rare benefit.
It is entirely possible in the USA to work 60 hours & more a week, yet need both food stamps & housing, b/c U cannot afford either. IMO, that shouldn’t be true; anyone who works FT & is a reliable employee should be able to provide themselves with adequate food & clean, safe, simple shelter.
That is not an unreasonable expectation.
But in fact, it is bitterly true.Pets become another unaffordable luxury when basic needs are unmet.
- terry
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- 43
I think in the UK we probably have different ideas about pets this is probably why you are getting the replies about welfare of your dog.
The Dogs Trust, like the PDSA, recommends in their ‘Beating Boredom’ factsheet that a dog is not left for more than 4 hours a day. The Battersea Dogs & Cats Home state in their FAQ’s under “Can I rehome a dog if I have a full time job?” that dogs over 5 years of age should not be left for more than four to six hours on a regular basis. They go on to state that younger dogs can generally be left alone a couple of hours but puppies shouldn’t really be left at all when they are very young and the time they spend alone should be very gradually built up.
Also:-
It is important that potential dog owners ask two questions of themselves before they take on the responsibility of ownership;
The Dogs Trust, like the PDSA, recommends in their ‘Beating Boredom’ factsheet that a dog is not left for more than 4 hours a day. The Battersea Dogs & Cats Home state in their FAQ’s under “Can I rehome a dog if I have a full time job?” that dogs over 5 years of age should not be left for more than four to six hours on a regular basis. They go on to state that younger dogs can generally be left alone a couple of hours but puppies shouldn’t really be left at all when they are very young and the time they spend alone should be very gradually built up.
Also:-
It is important that potential dog owners ask two questions of themselves before they take on the responsibility of ownership;
- Have I got the time? and;
- Can I afford it?
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Unless U are independently wealthy & work only as a hobby, or are self-employed & set yer own hours, no one can “work FT”, yet be gone no more than 4-hrs at a stretch.
It’s oxymoronic- the math doesn’t work.
Making dog ownership only for wealthy persons, or for retirees, entrepreneurs, & disabled persons who do not work, or for the self-employed, would knock most young couples with children completely out of the dog-owning “club”.
It would become very exclusive, limited only to ppl who don’t need to worry about outside commitments necessary to earning a living.
It’s NICE never to leave one’s dog home solo for more than 4-hrs max, but it’s not IMO a realistic criterion. // Most adults work for their living, are at the mercy of other ppl’s scheduling, & if they want a dog in their lives, have to deal with this pragmatically.
- terry
.
Unless U are independently wealthy & work only as a hobby, or are self-employed & set yer own hours, no one can “work FT”, yet be gone no more than 4-hrs at a stretch.
It’s oxymoronic- the math doesn’t work.
Making dog ownership only for wealthy persons, or for retirees, entrepreneurs, & disabled persons who do not work, or for the self-employed, would knock most young couples with children completely out of the dog-owning “club”.
It would become very exclusive, limited only to ppl who don’t need to worry about outside commitments necessary to earning a living.
It’s NICE never to leave one’s dog home solo for more than 4-hrs max, but it’s not IMO a realistic criterion. // Most adults work for their living, are at the mercy of other ppl’s scheduling, & if they want a dog in their lives, have to deal with this pragmatically.
- terry
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- Messages
- 197
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- 213
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- 43
Yes like getting a dog walker/sitter in if you are working all day etc the dogs welfare needs should be put first. Putting a pup in a crate for 7 hours in the day would not meet its welfare needs and it’s the needs of the pup that are important here. If you cannot meet a puppies needs then IMO don’t have one. People always say dogs don’t think like us but imagine how we would feel shut in a room for 7 hours with just enough room to turn around in, then another 8 hours at night, don’t think we would be very happy.
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The dog's welfare should take precedence over the person's desire to have a dog. If only wealthy people can provide what a dog needs, then only wealthy people can have a dog. No one has a RIGHT to have a dog. But of course plenty of people make it work by having dog walkers, or other family members helping out so the dog doesn't have to be left.
And there's plenty of people who really struggle financially who manage to have children without leaving them alone and without care for 7 hours a day.
I dare say there are plenty of dogs who cope with being left for 7 hours a day without suffering. But there are also loads who are left for 7 hours a day and are miserable, even if they do get the care they need the rest of the time. And it just doesn't make sense to that a young pup can cope with the isolation and solitude - dogs are social animals. So when you get a dog, there is no guarantee that that particular dog will be fine left all day. Some will, for others it wll be hell, and it's no good someone in full-time work getting a dog and saying that they SHOULD be able to leave them for that long. For some dogs, they simply SHOULDN'T.
And there's plenty of people who really struggle financially who manage to have children without leaving them alone and without care for 7 hours a day.
I dare say there are plenty of dogs who cope with being left for 7 hours a day without suffering. But there are also loads who are left for 7 hours a day and are miserable, even if they do get the care they need the rest of the time. And it just doesn't make sense to that a young pup can cope with the isolation and solitude - dogs are social animals. So when you get a dog, there is no guarantee that that particular dog will be fine left all day. Some will, for others it wll be hell, and it's no good someone in full-time work getting a dog and saying that they SHOULD be able to leave them for that long. For some dogs, they simply SHOULDN'T.
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