I can see your point, but I thought that live vaccines were superceded many years ago :unsure: Also, rather than spending money on book I would have my dogs' titre tested, then i know if they have enough immunity or not. Theory is great, but each dog is different, some respond to vaccination better than others.jayp said:
Right - so you're saying the study undertaken by the vaccine company to PROVE that their vaccine didn't need to be done every year, so they now advise it to be three-yearly rather than annually puts money in their pockets? Actually it was quite risky to do this. It means that they're NOT pushing and selling annual vaccines, they're selling them less often and risk losing money, so they put the health of the dogs ahead of their profits.jayp said:
May I reasure you 100% I was not a Monorchid at 13 weeks. I want to thanks all the honest folks that have responded to my question. Oh by the way the ones I had were actually GSD's and not Whippets. I just wish Breeders were open and came out of the cupboard and said Yes I have one in my last litter and we are trying to fix it. All we get though is blank looks. As a breeder would you desex a puppy if it's testicle didn't come down either 1 or both even though you have placed that puppy in a good home, Would you as the breeder pick up the tab ?dawn said:At 13 weeks I am sure they will be up and down like yo-yos.
Why do people worry about this problem at such an early age, give them a chance to drop.
I bet u were a monorchid at 13weeks
in fact the vaccine manufacturers only decided this after an independant study was done in america and published. early vaccination in certain suseptable breeds can result in testicles not completely descended being retained permanently.chelynnah said:
I wholeheartedly agree. If all relatives of cryptorchids were excluded from breeding, that would leave a very narrow gene pool in whippets, and let's face it - there are a number of conditions that are a lot worse for the dogs themselves than cryptorchism that could (and most likely would) result from such a policy.Seraphina said:
stress in any form can cause testicles to withdraw as can happen at a pups first show.vaccination is a major assault on an immature immune system and should not be done before 12 weeks at the earliest and only when testicles are fully descended jan.beaker said:a few years ago i was talking to a couple at a show and admiring one of their dogs,the dog was there ''not for competition'' the owner said she had brought him along to accompany their other dog but he couldn't be shown himself as his testicles had disappeared when he was a year old
she said that he had gone for his booster injection, had a bad reaction with accompanying high temp and one of the results was his nuts had disappeared
whether they had withdrawn inside or not i don't know, if i'd have had more time i would have tried to find out more but was a bit rushed,
i've never heard of this before or since but just wondered if a high temp could have caused this or an over reaction of his immune system?
I always thought that if i sell a puppy, it should have all it's bits in right places, so i would feel responsible if there was a huge cost of operation needed to find missing testicles. But I would like to be part of the process, I would like to know the moment his testicles were noticed missing, and I would liked to have the opportunity to try to bring them down myself. When the people only told me months after the dog was castrated i did not feel the need to offer contribution to the cost.mikadene said:
Yes, they can withdraw, it is a natural reaction to danger, but they do not disapear permanently into the abdomen unless there is a problem - like the testicle being too small.jayp said:stress in any form can cause testicles to withdraw as can happen at a pups first show.vaccination is a major assault on an immature immune system and should not be done before 12 weeks at the earliest and only when testicles are fully descended jan.beaker said:a few years ago i was talking to a couple at a show and admiring one of their dogs,the dog was there ''not for competition'' the owner said she had brought him along to accompany their other dog but he couldn't be shown himself as his testicles had disappeared when he was a year old
dessie said:
mikadene said:
hallelujah sense at lastSeraphina said:Yes, they can withdraw, it is a natural reaction to danger, but they do not disapear permanently into the abdomen unless there is a problem - like the testicle being too small.jayp said:stress in any form can cause testicles to withdraw as can happen at a pups first show.vaccination is a major assault on an immature immune system and should not be done before 12 weeks at the earliest and only when testicles are fully descended jan.beaker said:a few years ago i was talking to a couple at a show and admiring one of their dogs,the dog was there ''not for competition'' the owner said she had brought him along to accompany their other dog but he couldn't be shown himself as his testicles had disappeared when he was a year old
That dog Beaker mentions had his gone misssing after booster given year after the baby inoculations, so he would have been more like 14 months old. nothing to do with immature immune system.
As far as vaccinating dogs before 12 weeks goes; I remember when there was not vaccine that could be given to pups under 12 weeks, and i also remeber people loosing whole litters. Thirty odd years ago I lost third of a litter from distemper when people next door did not vaccinate their dogs and my pups became sick just day before they turned 6 weeks and were to be vaccinated. The vet still gave the shots to those that were not sick, half of these never developed distemper, the other half got bit ill but recovered, those who were the first to show signs all died, horrible painful death.
I looked up the Driscol person, she claims that her dogs were dropping dead left, right and centre when she vaccinated and fed them commercial food, now she does not vaccinate and feed raw and dogs from the same lines are picture of health. Just buy her book and she will explain it to you. While i agree that there are better ways to feed dogs than kibble, i know lot of dogs who lived pretty healthy lives till their old age on kibble and being vaccinated every year.
interesting quote from genetics book by bjackie isabell ; almost every breeder has heard of tales of ; disappearing testicle; in a male in which both testicles could be definately palpated by the age of seven weeks but then one suddenly disappears this is often associated with being shipped by air or other simlarly upsetting experiences. until the testes are too developed to pass through the inguinal ring puppies can withdraw the testes from the scrotum, usually when exited or stressed. occationally a retracted testicle becomes entangled with the spermatic chord and never appears again. There are also various teratogenic agents that are suspected to cause cryptorchidism in dogs and these should be considered before it is assumed to be genetic. antibiotic acromycin,chloramphenical,oxytetracyclineSeraphina said:Yes, they can withdraw, it is a natural reaction to danger, but they do not disapear permanently into the abdomen unless there is a problem - like the testicle being too small.jayp said:stress in any form can cause testicles to withdraw as can happen at a pups first show.vaccination is a major assault on an immature immune system and should not be done before 12 weeks at the earliest and only when testicles are fully descended jan.beaker said:a few years ago i was talking to a couple at a show and admiring one of their dogs,the dog was there ''not for competition'' the owner said she had brought him along to accompany their other dog but he couldn't be shown himself as his testicles had disappeared when he was a year old
That dog Beaker mentions had his gone misssing after booster given year after the baby inoculations, so he would have been more like 14 months old. nothing to do with immature immune system.
As far as vaccinating dogs before 12 weeks goes; I remember when there was not vaccine that could be given to pups under 12 weeks, and i also remeber people loosing whole litters. Thirty odd years ago I lost third of a litter from distemper when people next door did not vaccinate their dogs and my pups became sick just day before they turned 6 weeks and were to be vaccinated. The vet still gave the shots to those that were not sick, half of these never developed distemper, the other half got bit ill but recovered, those who were the first to show signs all died, horrible painful death.
I looked up the Driscol person, she claims that her dogs were dropping dead left, right and centre when she vaccinated and fed them commercial food, now she does not vaccinate and feed raw and dogs from the same lines are picture of health. Just buy her book and she will explain it to you. While i agree that there are better ways to feed dogs than kibble, i know lot of dogs who lived pretty healthy lives till their old age on kibble and being vaccinated every year.
not as strange as you think > taken from net doctor05whippet said:
Yes but they only retract, they do not travel all the up to where they came from originally. In an adult they ought to be far too big for thatmasta said:
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