An Opinion

[echo]

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The last thread was block because I guess it was becoming bitter.

I think that it is important that a point of view is explained with no finger pointing at anyone.

Nobody has to agree or disagree, it is an opinion.

The reason behind the comments about puppy prices, because the price has shot up in recent years but the quality of the breeding is not going the same way. 'An opinion'

Breeding,

Its seems people feel that after a short time in the breed that they should breed from their dogs as some form of progress within the breed, this makes for a lot of pups born that have to find homes for the next 13 or 14 years. Many seem so sure that they can do this.

The question could be asked, would you take a dog back at two or three or even older if the new owner didn't want it anymore.

Highly unlikely, but could you cope with the return of say six dogs. half of, say 2 litters.

It is hard to understand why many people only seem to breed for the want of a pup or puppies I didnt see anyone explain what they are giving back to the breed in terms of progress, now it would be short sighted to expect this to be the main reason for breeding, but you would expect at least some reference made to this.

Many lines have taken years to get to the stage they are and it would seem some expect to be able work some kind of magic in a such a short space of time.

The last point is that all the posts & pictures about cute puppies in the nest and how enjoyable it is, (and yes it is enjoyable) adds fuel to the fire and encourages people do the same. How many posts do you see about people changing their minds about pups and homes wanted? too many.

 

[phill]

You should have just said all that in the first place? It would have been a lot easier and i agree this is a forum and EVERYBODY is entitled to a viewpoint,Whether people agree or disagree is the whole idea of a forum/debate?

But not to attack people and "fan the flames" 8) :blink:

 

[*Lesley*]

That is very true Phil

Everybody is entitled to their oppinion Echo you are right there, but most give a reason/s for having these oppinions, you on the other hand seem feel very strongly about breeding but do not say why you are so concerned about it, are you wanting to buy a puppy, are you a breeder??? you want to know what people think yet you are not prepared to answer any of the questions that you were asked :unsure:

Your oppinions are valid Echo but don't expect people to be open and honest with you if you are not prepared to give them same curtiousy :thumbsup:

 

[bashful]

Yes , echo , why wont yu say who you are ?

You know what they say about people who write anonymous letters , :rant: you posting on here and and not saying who you are is much the same thing in my eyes , Do you have something to hide or are you ashamed of who you are How long have yu been in the breed ? have you bred a litter of whippets and/or do you intend to breed ?

and why should people be trying to `improve ` the breed , surely it already has a standard that people try to breed for , how will it benefit improving ?

From what I read on here most of the puppies shown are already have homes and those that come back ,do just that , back to the breeders as it should be o

Dont blame K9 for extra pups being born Computers are here to stay Im afraid , Gone are the days when we were younger and just had radio and word of mouth .

Its called progress , whether you like it or not .

Try not to be so negative and cynical about fellow whippet lovers , theres a good chap

:cheers:

Old Man phil ( lots of us about eh Phill )

 

[alfyn]

The last thread was block because I guess it was becoming bitter.

Well that was hardly surprising,was it? :blink:

Perhaps you won't get so 'Grumpy' this time,or feel the need to have the 'Last word' :- "

 

[EJW]

Even though Echo has raised some interesting & valid points I suspect that he/she is just here to cause trouble!

Echo's previous posts on other topics also seem to indicate this!

I think he/she may have a nasty touch of Trollitus

 

[phill]

Less of the old :- " :lol:

 

[echo]

That is very true Phil
Everybody is entitled to their oppinion Echo you are right there, but most give a reason/s for having these oppinions, you on the other hand seem feel very strongly about breeding but do not say why you are so concerned about it, are you wanting to buy a puppy, are you a breeder??? you want to know what people think yet you are not prepared to answer any of the questions that you were asked :unsure:

Your oppinions are valid Echo but don't expect people to be open and honest with you if you are not prepared to give them same curtiousy :thumbsup:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Is everyone asked who they are before posting? or just those that go against the grain? in fact I don't know who is who as all are using code names!

nobody was asked directly to answer any pionts that is up to the individual.

Why is it a requirement to have a personal agenda to post an opinion. Is the overall welfare of the breed not a reason.

Would it make an opinion more or any less valid by knowing the person or persons behind the words?

You could ask the question why only a few 10years plus show people post to the forum.

This could be that honesty & open debate is not really wanted.

Have these posts attacked anyone personally? That is not the aim.

The aim is to hopfully get people thinking a little more about breeding in general.

As for fanning flames, these are imotive subjects but we should not shy from the debated.

 

[fewterer]

I didnt see anyone explain what they are giving back to the breed in terms of progress, now it would be short sighted to expect this to be the main reason for breeding, but you would expect at least some reference made to this. Many lines have taken years to get to the stage they are and it would seem some expect to be able work some kind of magic in a such a short space of time.

What are your terms for success or 'progress' as you term it? Health, soundness, good temperament or merely a number of show accolades; the two aren't necessarily synonymous even in 'lines that have taken years to get to this stage', whatever that stage is (you haven't been very specfic).

 

[echo]

and why should people be trying to `improve ` the breed , surely it already has a standard that people try to breed for , how will it benefit improving ?

Why should we improve the breed?

Who will it benefit improving?

And you tell me I need to progress!!!!!!

 

[echo]

I didnt see anyone explain what they are giving back to the breed in terms of progress, now it would be short sighted to expect this to be the main reason for breeding, but you would expect at least some reference made to this. Many lines have taken years to get to the stage they are and it would seem some expect to be able work some kind of magic in a such a short space of time.

What are your terms for success or 'progress' as you term it? Health, soundness, good temperament or merely a number of show accolades; the two aren't necessarily synonymous even in 'lines that have taken years to get to this stage', whatever that stage is (you haven't been very specfic).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Health, soundness, temperament, breed standard will lead to show or working accolades.

Lines, take any of the top four show or working lines.

 

[fewterer]

Health, soundness, temperament, breed standard will lead to show or working accolades.Lines, take any of the top four show or working lines.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Interestingly succinct reply - would you care to expand on this with some concrete examples for the sake of argument?

 

[phill]

"Is everyone asked who they are before posting? or just those that go against the grain? in fact I don't know who is who as all are using code names!"

I don't use a code name!? It's Phill(my name) and you can even see what i look like on my profile

Echo,You seem to be enjoying this anyway :- "

 

[kris]

the problem i have here is this is going to turn into another argument and personal attacks.can we just debate the motions that have been raised please?why is it so neccessary to find out who the person is asking the questions?what are we afraid of?ive stated it once and ill state it again,i dont have a problem with anonymity.if you dont have anything to add to the debate apart from asking who this person is then please dont post any more ,cos i for one am getting fed up with the quest to know who this person is.lets say its a person called fred bloggs.are you any better off now for knowing that?friendly and open discussion is a part of the british system and to keep harping on about this is not getting to the root of the discussion and isnt answering any questions that newbies would perhaps like to know?please keep this thread on track it could be an interesting and informative debate

 

[dragonfly]

Yawn

 

[quintessence]

I think I've lost the plot somewhere, are you saying Echo that: K9 is responsible for whippets being numerically strong and lacking quality, that K9 is responsible for too many litters being born, that K9 is responsible for people asking unreasonable prices for their puppies. How do you equate that to what happened to Afghans in the 70's, the breed exploded, people jumped on the bandwagon and a lot of poor quality puppies were produced and high prices were the order of the day, there was no internet then and yet that's what happened.

I don't think the breed is in as bad a state as you portray, I also think there are some bright young exhibitors and breeders who understand the breed and will cherish it, of course people come and go, that's life but I really don't think there is too much to be grumpy about.

Jenny

 

[Seraphina]

Health, soundness, temperament, breed standard will lead to show or working accolades.Lines, take any of the top four show or working lines.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Considering that we are breeding to the standard for little bit over 100 years and many breeds are almost unrecognizable from those of 100 years ago, many are so exaggerated they are all but useless for their original purpose, I think your statement is highly suspect.

In my experience the person who keeps shouting he/she is breeding to improve the breed is usually the most inexperienced. [SIZE=14pt]Breeders suppose to be the guardians of the breed. They should not attempt to change it. [/SIZE]

I use avatar, because when i joined this forum that what people did, but i also included my website as my signature, put my photo in the "Be Brave" thread as soon as i came across it and everybody knows my name. While you just refuse to show your credentials, or maybe lack off??? :- "

 

[*Lesley*]

That is very true Phil
Everybody is entitled to their oppinion Echo you are right there, but most give a reason/s for having these oppinions, you on the other hand seem feel very strongly about breeding but do not say why you are so concerned about it, are you wanting to buy a puppy, are you a breeder??? you want to know what people think yet you are not prepared to answer any of the questions that you were asked :unsure:

Your oppinions are valid Echo but don't expect people to be open and honest with you if you are not prepared to give them same curtiousy :thumbsup:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Is everyone asked who they are before posting? or just those that go against the grain? in fact I don't know who is who as all are using code names!

nobody was asked directly to answer any pionts that is up to the individual.

Why is it a requirement to have a personal agenda to post an opinion. Is the overall welfare of the breed not a reason.

Would it make an opinion more or any less valid by knowing the person or persons behind the words?

You could ask the question why only a few 10years plus show people post to the forum.

This could be that honesty & open debate is not really wanted.

Have these posts attacked anyone personally? That is not the aim.

The aim is to hopfully get people thinking a little more about breeding in general.

As for fanning flames, these are imotive subjects but we should not shy from the debated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I don't personally care who you are, or how many experienced show people are on here, do you know why? because I don't show, although if it meant I'd get a chance to meet such godly knowledge as yours I would be surely tempted :- "

If you read peoples posts you might be surprised to find that people put a lot of thought in to breeding of a litter, even god forbid that they might want a puppy for themselves (w00t) they are entitled to do that just because they can :thumbsup:

I think you will find on here we all have the best interest of the breed top of our lists Echo, each and everyday when we love and care for them,you see for me Whippets are 'perfect' already, so I don't have that added burden of always striving for something else.

Or maybe thats because I haven't been in the breed for donkeys years and just see them for what they are a gorgeous creature that is a joy to own :wub:

So you ask away and carry on your 'debate', and if it makes you feel better then at least something good will have come out of it for you :thumbsup:

 

[kris]

to get back on track,i think there are good newcomers to a breed and bad experienced people in a breed.ive met them all.ive also met the two minute wonders who ive sat at the side of the ring and heard them repeating word for word what they heard me saying the day before at another show.ive also met folk who have been in the breed for 20 odd years and tbh they havent got 20 odd years experience,theyve got one years experience theyve repeated 20 times.being passionate about the breed helps,as does having someone who you respect for what theyve achieved (and i dont mean just in show wins)and can talk to and ask those questions that arent in any of the books(maybe cos noone wants to recognise the problem so dont talk about it)im talking generalities here as i dont own or show whippets.so ill give my twopennysworth.when i bred a litter i was trying to improve on the parents and produce something not that was their equal but that was better.we can always improve a breed no matter what that breed is.if say its got a problem with luxating patellas or cervical spondylosis then try to breed pups that are top show specimens and are also healthier and have a better chance of a life that is free from health problems and pain.im sure other folk can put it better than me but i want to breed an allround dog.a superb specimen of the breed,good health and good temperament. its easier said than done though! :thumbsup:

 

[Seraphina]

we can always improve a breed no matter what that breed is.if say its got  a problem with luxating patellas or cervical spondylosis then try to breed pups that are top show specimens and are also healthier and have  a better chance of a life that is free from health problems and pain.im sure other folk can put it better than me but i want to breed an allround dog.a superb specimen of the breed,good health and good temperament. its easier said than done though! :thumbsup:

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​

Trying to eliminate health problems, is NOT what I call "improving the breed", that should be called "eliminating health problems". Of-course, we should all strive to breed pups that are better than the parents, but that is where the problem starts, as somebody may think that extremely long neck is an improvement, while others recognize it as a potential problem ( as it predisposes dogs to the Wobbler Syndrome). To me improvement is if the pups have better angulation, topline or movement etc, than my bitch. I strive to improve my line, not to change the breed.