Barking Mad

[oakmoorehill]

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Has anyone got any ideas how to stop William barking?William is my greyhound when we had him he suffered from separation anxiety with help from my vet we stopped him barking all the time by putting him on tranquilisers to control the panic attacks he suffered when left even if you left him in one room and went to the loo he isn't coming there with me. we have got this under control now but he demands that I get at 4am every day ussualy I let him out for a wee and go back to bed but then every half hour or so he starts again.The only way to shut him up is to get up and sit with him but then he has had his own way. It is only me he is after other people go down and it will not shut him up it has to be me.

We have triedan ultrasonic collar he broke that he barked that much we then borrowed an abiostop collar he liked the smell of all the sprays but als wrked out if he shook his head he could empty the spray . We have tried water pistols someone suggested putting mustard in his mouth you guest it he likes that too!!!! We are now at our witts end with him.Shouting or ignoring him makes him worse.

He is now starting to teach the pups to do it Can anyone suggest anything that might work I have thought of putting him in kennels to break him away from me but he was in kennels before we had him and the vet said this may have started the problem because he suddenly found he was getting attention he wasn't getting before He was 8mths when we had him.

I will try anything as otherwise he is a lovely dog if we can just shut him up Please help if you have any ideas I am getting desparate now I would love not to get up at 4am

 

[~JO~]

Hi -

The best thing to try would be Scullcap & Valerian tablets, give William a dose before he goes to bed every night, these will reduce anxiety and relax him and should help him sleep through the night.

In fact my friends greyhound was doing the exact same thing, she was going through an adolescent period! She found the Scullcap & Valerian worked a treat :thumbsup: Its also a common problem with collies.

Give Dorwest a ring and they will give you some advice on dosages etc

Their website!

Hope it helps and you get a peaceful night sleep soon

 

[oakmoorehill]

Hi  -
The best thing to try would be Scullcap & Valerian tablets, give William a dose before he goes to bed every night, these will reduce anxiety and relax him and should help him sleep through the night.

In fact my friends greyhound was doing the exact same thing, she was going through an adolescent period!  She found the Scullcap & Valerian worked a treat  :thumbsup: Its also a common problem with collies.

Give Dorwest a ring and they will give you some advice on dosages etc

Their website!

Hope it helps and you get a peaceful night sleep soon 

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Thanks for that he is going through that adolesent stage to he is nearly 20mths forgot to say my whippet bitch Tegan is in season so that doesn't help I've got a house full of over sexed males she normally goes to kennels but they are full due to the local factory holidays just my luck she came in a month early after her pups they were 5mths to the day when she came in season

 

[Lydia]

Certainly give scullcap and valerian a try,it may help.I wouldn't expect an immediate response to this though,he may need to take it for a week or two before you start to see an improvement.

I haven't tried it myself,but vet's do now stock a hormone based scent thing,that plugs into an electricity socket,and gives off a smell that calms dogs,that is undetectable to humans.A friend of mine used to calm a whippet,who suffered with anxiety at night,and,it worked very well for him.I'm not sure what they are called,but your vet could well supply them,also,if it is going to work on him,it should be immediate.

The only other advise I can suggest is to either have him sleeping in your bedroom with you,to see if this cures him,or,to ignore his demands and let him bark but do not go down until you are ready to get up.You would need to warn your neighbours,that it might take a few nights before he gets the message,but,the penny should drop that when he whinges and barks,you are not going to go running to his every demand.

Something else you could try,along with this method,is,take a rolled up newspaper to bed with you,when he starts at 4 a.m.,go down,complete with the newspaper.Go into the room that he is in,and have a screaming head fit,hitting the walls and furniture with the paper.Do not hit the dog,do not even make eye contact with him,after a couple of minutes of screaming and shouting and beating everything except him with the paper,abruptly leave the room and go back to bed.

If he starts to bark again,repeat the exercise.Only get up and go down once he is quiet,and has stayed quiet for a good few minutes.Also,when you go down,even if he has been quiet,do not make a fuss of him.By fussing him you are telling him by body language that he is right to be anxious and worried when you are not there.

It is a very hard thing to do,but,unless you want to be getting up at 4 am,for the rest of this dog's life,you need to be very frim with yourself and him.

The newspaper method is a very old one,that was suggested to me by an experienced dog trainer 24 yrs ago,for a greyhound lurcher that barked whenever I left it alone.Training for separation anxiety could well be different now,it might be worth giving a dog trainer whose methods you trust a ring for verbal advise,before following this method,if you did decide to give it a try.

Lyd

 

[oakmoorehill]

Certainly give scullcap and valerian a try,it may help.I wouldn't expect an immediate response to this though,he may need to take it for a week or two before you start to see an improvement.I haven't tried it myself,but vet's do now stock a hormone based scent thing,that plugs into an electricity socket,and gives off a smell that calms dogs,that is undetectable to humans.A friend of mine used to calm a whippet,who suffered with anxiety at night,and,it worked very well for him.I'm not sure what they are called,but your vet could well supply them,also,if it is going to work on him,it should be immediate.

The only other advise I can suggest is to either have him sleeping in your bedroom with you,to see if this cures him,or,to ignore his demands and let him bark but do not go down until you are ready to get up.You would need to warn your neighbours,that it might take a few nights before he gets the message,but,the penny should drop that when he whinges and barks,you are not going to go running to his every demand.

Something else you could try,along with this method,is,take a rolled up newspaper to bed with you,when he starts at 4 a.m.,go down,complete with the newspaper.Go into the room that he is in,and have a screaming head fit,hitting the walls and furniture with the paper.Do not hit the dog,do not even make eye contact with him,after a couple of minutes of screaming and shouting and beating everything except him with the paper,abruptly leave the room and go back to bed.

If he starts to bark again,repeat the exercise.Only get up and go down once he is quiet,and has stayed quiet for a good few minutes.Also,when you go down,even if he has been quiet,do not make a fuss of him.By fussing him you are telling him by body language that he is right to be anxious and worried when you are not there.

It is a very hard thing to do,but,unless you want to be getting up at 4 am,for the rest of this dog's life,you need to be very frim with yourself and him.

The newspaper method is a very old one,that was suggested to me by an experienced dog trainer 24 yrs ago,for a greyhound lurcher that barked whenever I left it alone.Training for separation anxiety could well be different now,it might be worth giving a dog trainer whose methods you trust a ring for verbal advise,before following this method,if you did decide to give it a try.

Lyd

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We have tried making a noise to distract him and shouting but the great daft idiot waits until you turn your back and starts again the penny never seems to drop .We are beginng to think he hasn't got a brain.As for taking him to bed we did that but he kicks us of the bed and refuses to lie in his bed . At the moment Tegan and Rosie are lodging in our bedroom.

 

[Lydia]

Shouting at him is giving him attention,the idea of the newspaper is you don't look at him,you don't hit him,you just go completely bananas,a major tantrum as well as hitting stuff with the paper,walls are good- as are leather sofas.

When you went down and shouted at him before,were you making contact with him,what I mean is,did he think you were shouting at him.The way this is supposed to work is,the dog doesn't think you are shouting and hitting walls because of him.

Because you've just made a really nasty unpleasant row,and ignored him,he wont want you down there with him :- " .

Lyd

 

[jan@iow]

I understand that the Bach Flower remedies can work well with dogs...I haven't had to try them yet with Fen but I use them all the time on my daughter. For general panic rescue remedy might help...4 drops in water bowl or a squirt straight into the mouth (our English bull terrier used to take it like this...) On the other hand you could try rock rose (if there an element of terror) or cherry plum (for loss of self control) If attention seeking is the real problem then chicory works for that. If the basis is fear ...mimulus or aspen. You can use 5 or 6 together no problem. It's a case of guessing at the cause and then finding the remedy to match-I use the BF Remedies repertory as a quick guide. The remedies are very gentle and can do no harm. I have seen rescue remedy calm a crying and hysterical friend :rant: almost instantly -_- ....so you never know!

 

[ILoveKettleChips]

All I would add is quite simple - prepare yourself (and your family ... and neighbours ...!) for a period of lost sleep and JUST IGNORE HIM. By all means let him out for a pee, but don't get up again until morning. And 'morning' is when YOU decide, not him!

Try the DAP diffuser (mentioned by Lydia) - it definitely helps calm some dogs. Plug it in near his bed. Scullcap and valerian is a good suggestion, as is Bach's rescue remedy - you could dose him at 4 when he gets out for the toilet.

Hopefully with a few weeks strength and perseverance he'll be ready for you to wean the 4am starts off so that he's left until 5 ... then 6 ... then 7 before he gets up! Treat him like the insecure puppy he is and you'll soon have him retrained. :luck:

 

[Seraphina]

Lydia's advice is good, but it will take a long time to work. You have to be patient and consistent. He has to learn that barking will get him something unpleasant . if you do decide to ignore him; the best way to do this is to crate him and cover the crate with heavy, sound proving material - such as couple of pieces of old carpet, sleeping bags - that way you and your neighboroughs can get sleep and sooner or later the calming remedies will work and he will settle in. :luck: :luck: :luck:

Lida

 

[oakmoorehill]

Lydia's advice is good, but it will take a long time to work.  You have to be patient and consistent.  He has to learn that barking will get him something unpleasant .  if you do decide to ignore him; the best way to do this is to crate him and cover the crate with heavy, sound proving material - such as couple of pieces of old carpet, sleeping bags - that way you and your neighboroughs can get sleep  and sooner or later the calming remedies will work and he will settle in. :luck:   :luck:   :luck:
Lida

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Thanks

He is crated already this is because he will do anything he can to get to meand also because having been in kennels and 8mths when he arrived he was not house trained This was as I thought he would not wee in his bedI thought wrong as he is a dirty dog and weeeed and then lay in it.He only does this now if no one is thereto let him out. but I never thought of covering it upto deaden the noise

 

[oakmoorehill]

I understand that the Bach Flower remedies can work well with dogs...I haven't had to try them yet with Fen but I use them all the time on my daughter.  For general panic rescue remedy might help...4 drops in water bowl or a squirt straight into the mouth (our English bull terrier used to take it like this...)  On the other hand you could try rock rose (if there an element of terror) or cherry plum (for loss of self control)  If attention seeking is the real problem then chicory works for that.  If the basis is fear ...mimulus or aspen.  You can use 5 or 6 together no problem.    It's a case of guessing at the cause and then finding the remedy to match-I use the BF Remedies repertory as a quick guide.  The remedies are very gentle and can do no harm.  I have seen rescue remedy calm a crying and hysterical friend :rant:   almost instantly -_- ....so you never know!

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Hi When the vet put him on tranqilisers to control the panic attacks I managed to over a period of time weanhim of these and on to rescue rescue remedy this did work and eventualy was weaned of that it may be worth another try although I am wandering if this barking is now more habit as he does at the same time every day

The rescue remedy does work as my whippet bitch is 10 days into her season and my males must have got her scent she is upstairs at the moment they spent the night howling .The two males doing this were both given a dose of rescue remedy and both settled down.I wil point out William did not join in nor did the male who has been used as a stud dog.

 

[oakmoorehill]

Now I know how to do it I thought you might want to see the idiot who makes the noise and causes the problem This is my daft greyhound William

 

[Smiffy@VeronnaV]

-_- That's what you wish you were doing at 4am, not letting the dog out!! But the one thing your hound is not, is daft! Very clever in fact. They are one of the most difficult breeds to train for competitive obedience work because the breed was developed to work 'alone'. The advice about going down and yelling and making a fuss but NOT making eye contact is sound advice. Because what you are doing is not giving the dog any recognition - in other words his behaviour has had a negative effect. The one thing a dog hates is being ignored. In the doggie world its the worst insult imaginable!! At least, that's what the books say!! You don't touch him either for the same reason.

I think you also need to develop new ways of handling the dog. For example, you could consider formal obedience training - partly because it will help you to work as a team, building on his need to 'be with you', but in a controlled, exercised way, partly because 15 minutes training is, so I'm told, the equivalent to a 5 mile run, so he will get tired more quickly, and partly because when amongst dog-training people, they too have ways of making them behave! I used this method with a whippet and have never looked back! I love working with my dogs, it's such fun - and tiring for them.

Finally, is the cage the problem? Does the dog feel isolated from the rest of the pack if he is crated and they are not? Would he be better sharing his space and having the companionship of another dog? I always put a new pup with one of the other dogs at bed time. If he is waking at 4am to urinate, what do you feed him? Is it too wet? Could you feed earlier to help the kidneys to excrete the excess fluid before bed? Has he got a wee infection rumbling away, not enough to show up, but enough to make urgency at 4am a problem? If all else fails, maybe you need to contact a behaviour expert - like Roger Mugford or one of his accolytes. :luck:

 

[Smiffy@VeronnaV]

-_- That's what you wish you were doing at 4am, not letting the dog out!! But the one thing your hound is not, is daft! Very clever in fact. They are one of the most difficult breeds to train for competitive obedience work because the breed was developed to work 'alone'. The advice about going down and yelling and making a fuss but NOT making eye contact is sound advice. Because what you are doing is not giving the dog any recognition - in other words his behaviour has had a negative effect. The one thing a dog hates is being ignored. In the doggie world its the worst insult imaginable!! At least, that's what the books say!! You don't touch him either for the same reason.

I think you also need to develop new ways of handling the dog. For example, you could consider formal obedience training - partly because it will help you to work as a team, building on his need to 'be with you', but in a controlled, exercised way, partly because 15 minutes training is, so I'm told, the equivalent to a 5 mile run, so he will get tired more quickly, and partly because when amongst dog-training people, they too have ways of making them behave! I used this method with a whippet and have never looked back! I love working with my dogs, it's such fun - and tiring for them.

Finally, is the cage the problem? Does the dog feel isolated from the rest of the pack if he is crated and they are not? Would he be better sharing his space and having the companionship of another dog? I always put a new pup with one of the other dogs at bed time. If he is waking at 4am to urinate, what do you feed him? Is it too wet? Could you feed earlier to help the kidneys to excrete the excess fluid before bed? Has he got a wee infection rumbling away, not enough to show up, but enough to make urgency at 4am a problem? If all else fails, maybe you need to contact a behaviour expert - like Roger Mugford or one of his accolytes. :luck:

 

[oakmoorehill]

-_- That's what you wish you were doing at 4am, not letting the dog out!!  But the one thing your hound is not, is daft!  Very clever in fact.  They are one of the most difficult breeds to train for competitive obedience work because the breed was developed to work 'alone'.  The advice about going down and yelling and making a fuss but NOT making eye contact is sound advice.  Because what you are doing is not giving the dog any recognition - in other words his behaviour has had a negative effect.  The one thing a dog hates is being ignored.  In the doggie world its the worst insult imaginable!!  At least, that's what the books say!!  You don't touch him either for the same reason. 
I think you also need to develop new ways of handling the dog.  For example, you could consider formal obedience training - partly because it will help you to work as a team, building on his need to 'be with you', but in a controlled, exercised way, partly because 15 minutes training is, so I'm told, the equivalent to a 5 mile run, so he will get tired more quickly, and partly because when amongst dog-training people, they too have ways of making them behave!  I used this method with a whippet and have never looked back!  I love working with my dogs, it's such fun - and tiring for them.

Finally, is the cage the problem?  Does the dog feel isolated from the rest of the pack if he is crated and they are not?  Would he be better sharing his space and having the companionship of another dog?  I always put a new pup with one of the other dogs at bed time.  If he is waking at 4am to urinate, what do you feed him?  Is it too wet?  Could you feed earlier to help the kidneys to excrete the excess fluid before bed?  Has he got a wee infection rumbling away, not enough to show up, but enough to make urgency at 4am a problem?  If all else fails, maybe you need to contact a behaviour expert - like Roger Mugford or one of his accolytes.  :luck:

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Hi I don't think the cage is the problem he is the same if I leave him out My other dogs are caged at night also astwo of my males will fight over the bitch she is in season at the moment and although she is upstairs at the momet the boys know and Owen and Bandit will fight over her Obviously this only when they canot be supervised.As for food he hasRed Mills greyhound food fed dryand has no access to water duing the night only a small amount .I have tried tiring him out by exercising him of a bike but that does no good We think now it has becomea habit with him aswhen my husband used to do shifts if he was on noons he would let him out before he came to bed if he was not asleep but he still barked at 4 am

 

[jan@iow]

How about a dose of Chestnut Bud (takes a long time to learn by experience-keeps repeating the same mistakes) a dose of Honeysuckle (in looking back there is fear of what lies ahead) a fear remedy such as Mimulus and a good slug of RR.... Might set you back a few quid and the results aren't immediate, needs repeating 4 times a day.. but might just be worth a try.

 

[jan@iow]

Sorry ..I forgot Chicory I think this might be William's constitutional!! (dislikes being alone, wants constant attention, very talkative, possessive love, strong willed, when thwarted becomes fretful)

 

[oakmoorehill]

:cheers: for all the advise he is now having rescue remedy and chicory. I took him to the vets as he grumbled at me one day when I touched his ear nt at all like him .Nothing wrong with him but spoke to the vet about the barking . He seems to think that as he is now 20 months and Tegan had just been in season he has in his words discovered he has got balls He also noticed he seemed very stressed and had lost a small amount of weight.

He gave me some tablets to calm him down these worked but did not stop he barking.

At the hound show yesterday I spoke to his breeder she suggested putting a dominant bitch in with him Beaker also suggested a dog that didn't like others barking. So last night Tegan went in the cage with him.

All was quiet although I still woke up at 4am expecting him to bark there was 2 greyhound barks followed by a whippet growl and all went quiteI lay in bed listening Sometime later there was another bark followed by sqealing I ran downstairs to find one greyhound male cowering with my 'dainty!!' Tegan holding the scruf of his kneck on closer examination she had not broke to skin just bit the hair and covered his kneck in whippet slobber .

They setled down again only for her to have another go later so I tok her out as this time she had broke the skin but he did not bark again

The big question is has he learnt his lesson ?? we wil find out tomorrow

I wil point out I would not have done this if I thought he would harm Tegan but she has put him in his place before and he will not have a go at her he worships her and I would not leave them together if I was not in the house at all as the idea is not to hurt him just to put him in his place

 

[fallenangel]

This can be quiet a coman problem with greyhound when they go in a home from kennls. as well as the news papper noise get a plastic pop bottel the 2 lt type put a couple of hand fulls of beads or dry peas or beans in it and through it to the ground makes a horred noies just to distract him make no eye contact and dont speak. try to to as little as possibel whith him and let other famliy members take over his dutes. we have had a lot of greyhounds in and out of here and the younger they are when they come the more difficult they can be basicaly under 3 years they think there still puppys.

The one thing I have noticed when greyhounds go in homes is that the nice quiet spocken peoepl have the most problems a greyhound soon learns who they can get to do what if they can take an inch they will. but once they know there place there wonderfull we have 5 here and have no problems at all with sepertion aniaty and barking but our cally wound have had if we had not spotted the singes when she first came and she was only 20 months when she arrived just battern down the hatches buy your nabours a bottle of plonk each and ignore him. it will work. but if you give in afetr an hour he will allso learn to go longer playing up you must not give in or it could make things worres cos he knows he can win if he keops it up

 

[oakmoorehill]

We have tried the stones in a plastic botle but it didn't realy work with him but the vet sems to think as you say it is an age thing that was not helped as he was 8 months when we had him and if we had him as a young pup would probably not have had these probs.

We were expecting a nasty note of the neighbour yesterday leaving him to go to the hound show but I didn't find one so I think he realises if we both go out thereis no point barking no one wil come so hopefuly he wil learn eventualy I don't want to use Tegan if at al posible but desparate situations need desperate solusions OH says he wil have to go if he doesn't shut up but I don't want that as in every other way he is a loverly dog