Bbc 1

[fewterer]

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But do these pinpoint stud dog/brood bitch?  Could be of great help to breeders.

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No, and this won't be possible until DNA profiles (that identify unique individuals and verify their relationship with other close relatives) become compulsory as part of KC registration process. Until then everyone has to take the good word of others for both pedigree integrity and good health, or do their own private research to profile the pattern of disease/identify carriers.

 

[ROSIE MEADOWS]

But do these pinpoint stud dog/brood bitch?  Could be of great help to breeders.

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No, and this won't be possible until DNA profiles (that identify unique individuals and verify their relationship with other close relatives) become compulsory as part of KC registration process. Until then everyone has to take the good word of others for both pedigree integrity and good health, or do their own private research to profile the pattern of disease/identify carriers.

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If the form was printed with the dogs reg no. then it's parentage would be available, unles as you suggest the breeder falsified the ped the pup was registered with

 

[bertha]

IMO the BBC should pull out of screening Crufts, then perhaps it could return to a dog show without all the Flyball, Agility and all the other things that are screened. After all it is only another championship show with loads of trimmings, it now has little to do with actual dog showing.
No field officers are allowed to visit Crufts, it would fail dismally.

So let it revert to what it was intended to be, just s dog show.

I still don't agree with the way that program was done, it was so biased. There is no going back from it however, but there should be a program made to give a more balanced outlook on dogs and breeding them.

Personally I have always found the KC very helpful on the phone, being a breed club secretary I do have to contact them from time to time and have found them very polite.

As for photo copy pedigrees, you don't have to buy a pedigree if you don't want one!!!!!! You don't have to take out KC insurance if you don't want it. It is up to you to refuse it all!

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You have totally missed the points raised! And what you have to say about the pedigrees and insurance makes no sense and is suspiciously defensive on behalf of the KC!

The programme makers obviously know that a lot of good breeding and dog ownership is out there but they only had an hour to tell this story (which has needed telling for MANY years) and so obviously concentrated on what needed to be said. Is the NEWS full of good news? No, there is not time - it tells us what we need to know and informs us of what is MOST urgent. This is what Pedigree Dogs Exposed did!

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I wasn't being suspiciously defensive on behalf of the KC on pedigrees and insurance, I was just stating the facts, nobody forces you to buy their insurance or copy of pedigrees.

IMO you haven't a clue what you are talking about with reference to that point and misunderstood me.

 

[fewterer]

If the form was printed with the dogs reg no. then it's parentage would be available, unless as you suggest the breeder falsified the ped the pup was registered with

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It has been known, sometimes accidents can happen without anyone being aware, as more than one dog can mate a bitch successfully. DNA markers are the only absolute proof of unique identity.

 

[bertha]

If the form was printed with the dogs reg no. then it's parentage would be available, unless as you suggest the breeder falsified the ped the pup was registered with

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It has been known, sometimes accidents can happen without anyone being aware, as more than one dog can mate a bitch successfully. DNA markers are the only absolute proof of unique identity.

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It would be impossible to dna test every single KC registered dog, there are too many and the cost would be astronomical.

In an ideal world it is the way to go, but this is not an ideal world so we have to do the best we can to ensure we breed sound healthy puppies!

 

[affieluver]

im not too sure about that ann my friend breeds horses hanoverians and the foals when they are about 6 months old have to have the vet come out to do an identity sheet marking down all the different markings and take some tail hair for dna

all this has to be done before they can be registered with the society and for them to be of any use breeding wise they have to be graded with the relevant studbook

i do understand that people still dont do it but as a potential breeding horse unregistered stock are useless also the germans will not allow any close mating what so ever

why cant we get some scheme in place in this country to protect our good dog breeders i just dont get it surely something could be put in place

 

[fewterer]

It would be impossible to dna test every single KC registered dog, there are too many and the cost would be astronomical.

The KC currently encourages people do this voluntarily for a fee of £15 when they register their ownership of a new pup, and many people have already taken up the offer. From a breeder's viewpoint, it is the only way to safeguard yourself against potential disputes in the future; as a buyer, it guarantees that you have exactly the breeding that you have paid good money for.

 

[quintessence]

I have been troubled by this programme since viewing on Tuesday. I have tried several times to put my feelings into print but on each occasion I have failed.

I am just so very sad, how did pedigree dog breeding get to this stage. I could go on and on and rant and rage but that will do no good. I just hope and pray that the Kennel Club and breeders decide that enough is enough, something has to be done so that puppies will not be born with inherited conditions which give them a life of unbearable pain.

Jenny

 

[bertha]

im not too sure about that ann my friend breeds horses hanoverians and the foals when they are about 6 months old have to have the vet come out to do an identity sheet marking down all the different markings and take some tail hair for dna
all this has to be done before they can be registered with the society and for them to be of any use breeding wise they have to be graded with the relevant studbook

i do understand that people still dont do it but as a potential breeding horse unregistered stock are useless also the germans will not allow any close mating what so ever

why cant we get some scheme in place in this country to protect our good dog breeders i just dont get it surely something could be put in place

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Easy with horses, they only have one, rarely two foals!!!!!! The statistics to do that with dogs would be virtually impossible!!!!!!! It would tie up vets full time.

 

[affieluver]

im not too sure about that ann my friend breeds horses hanoverians and the foals when they are about 6 months old have to have the vet come out to do an identity sheet marking down all the different markings and take some tail hair for dna
all this has to be done before they can be registered with the society and for them to be of any use breeding wise they have to be graded with the relevant studbook

i do understand that people still dont do it but as a potential breeding horse unregistered stock are useless also the germans will not allow any close mating what so ever

why cant we get some scheme in place in this country to protect our good dog breeders i just dont get it surely something could be put in place

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Easy with horses, they only have one, rarely two foals!!!!!! The statistics to do that with dogs would be virtually impossible!!!!!!! It would tie up vets full time.

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of course i hadnt thought of that :lol: but you would think that with the money the kennel club do get they would find a way to reward good breeding best i get back to the horses :lol:

 

[June Jonigk]

It would be impossible to dna test every single KC registered dog, there are too many and the cost would be astronomical.

The KC currently encourages people do this voluntarily for a fee of £15 when they register their ownership of a new pup, and many people have already taken up the offer. From a breeder's viewpoint, it is the only way to safeguard yourself against potential disputes in the future; as a buyer, it guarantees that you have exactly the breeding that you have paid good money for.

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Many of us in pedigree racing now have our dogs and pups DNA profiled. I feel it is the way forward in breeding, and £15 a pup is hardly a huge extra cost.

 

[~JO~]

It would be impossible to dna test every single KC registered dog, there are too many and the cost would be astronomical.

The KC currently encourages people do this voluntarily for a fee of £15 when they register their ownership of a new pup, and many people have already taken up the offer. From a breeder's viewpoint, it is the only way to safeguard yourself against potential disputes in the future; as a buyer, it guarantees that you have exactly the breeding that you have paid good money for.

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Many of us in pedigree racing now have our dogs and pups DNA profiled. I feel it is the way forward in breeding, and £15 a pup is hardly a huge extra cost.

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Yes the same in showing :thumbsup:

 

[bertha]

It would be impossible to dna test every single KC registered dog, there are too many and the cost would be astronomical.

The KC currently encourages people do this voluntarily for a fee of £15 when they register their ownership of a new pup, and many people have already taken up the offer. From a breeder's viewpoint, it is the only way to safeguard yourself against potential disputes in the future; as a buyer, it guarantees that you have exactly the breeding that you have paid good money for.

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Many of us in pedigree racing now have our dogs and pups DNA profiled. I feel it is the way forward in breeding, and £15 a pup is hardly a huge extra cost.

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Is there a particular reason why you DNA test the racing dogs?

 

[kirsty]

I see this programme is on Scottish bbc 1 tonight it started at 9pm

 

[Zephyr]

I have been troubled by this programme since viewing on Tuesday. I have tried several times to put my feelings into print but on each occasion I have failed.
I am just so very sad, how did pedigree dog breeding get to this stage.  I could go on and on and rant and rage but that will do no good.  I just hope and pray that the Kennel Club and breeders decide that enough is enough, something has to be done so that puppies will not be born with inherited conditions which give them a life of unbearable pain.

Jenny

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Exactly my feelings, Jenny. I had taped this and have just finished watching it, with my daughter sobbing next to me at the state of the Cavaliers who were in so much pain from syringomyelia, and the boxers fitting, and the pug with so many inherited conditions including a hugely deformed spine. I feel shocked, saddened and disgusted at the state of the show world, and whilst undoubtedly many of us love whippets because of their unexaggerated appearance and their intelligence, beauty, hunting abilities and happy natures, we surely cannot be smug about them, and think it is only other breeds that have problems. Close inbreeding is clearly causing damage to our dogs health and welfare, and it is down to the Kennel Club to enforce clear rulings before it is too late.

There have been problems with hereditary diseases in many breeds for a long time, and when I left veterinary nursing 20 years ago now we were worried sick even then, but the problems have not been addressed and are just getting worse. It is time for the Kennel Club to act, as an urgent welfare issue.

 

[Seraphina]

Where do you draw the line ? Is grand father Grand daughter also too close ?

I, personally, always had a rule that first cousins and closer are too close. But after studying my dogs' pedigrees further back and seeing how many father-daughter, mother-son, grandfather- granddaughter matings were there, and most were to the same famous dog, I also pay lots of attention how related the stud dog is to my girls in the generations past the 4th.

 

However, if I had a stunning bitch and her grandfather was the most amazing dog I have ever seen, and he was not particularly close to the rest of the dogs in my bitch's pedigree, and there just would not be another dog of the quality and type, then I would do granddaughter to her grandfather.

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[SIZE=14pt]That is still taking an unwarrented risk for the superficiality of how a dog looks![/SIZE]

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Actually, I meant to say I would consider granddaughter to grandfather. But it was bit tongue in a cheek. Usually when people ambush me telling me I need to line breed, I say : "when you show me a perfect dog, I will line breed to him"

 

My last litter was the most unrelated breeding I ever done, yet the pups were very uniform. That was because the parents are very similar type.

 

[Seraphina]

I feel shocked, saddened and disgusted at the state of the show world, and whilst undoubtedly many of us love whippets because of their unexaggerated appearance and their intelligence, beauty, hunting abilities and happy natures, we surely cannot be smug about them, and think it is only other breeds that have problems.  Close inbreeding is clearly causing damage to our dogs health and welfare, and it is down to the Kennel Club to enforce clear rulings before it is too late.
There have been problems with hereditary diseases in many breeds for a long time, and when I left veterinary nursing 20 years ago now we were worried sick even then, but the problems have not been addressed and are just getting worse.  It is time for the Kennel Club to act, as an urgent welfare issue.

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I am very much against inbreeding, but that alone does not cause the exaggerations causing these problems. They are caused by selective breeding for the exaggerations. Breeders of the round headed breeds select pups with the most pushed in faces to go on with and so gradually the breed changes. And many breeds have changed amazingly.

This is a photo of a dachshund taken in 1959. The dog was a show winner, but working dog owned by a game keeper. He had legs, his body was significantly shorter than what you see in the ring now, that is only 50 years.

 

[Seraphina]

This program is now on You Tube in its entirety, I just cried all the way though it

BBC dogs

 

[Seraphina]

Easy with horses, they only have one, rarely two foals!!!!!! The statistics to do that with dogs would be virtually impossible!!!!!!! It would tie up vets full time.

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Here in Australia DNA profiling is not done by vets, it is done by genetic testing company. The sample is collected by two mouth swabs, which only takes seconds. The actual profiling is automated.

How reliable it is, that is another question. I would not bet my life on it

And in any case it will not in this moment help much with health issues.

 

[Eceni]

Easy with horses, they only have one, rarely two foals!!!!!! The statistics to do that with dogs would be virtually impossible!!!!!!! It would tie up vets full time.

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It really wouldn't - we do (I used to do - not any more - for clarity) puppy vaccinations without it tying up all our time. As someone who did used to go round the studs and do foal IDs, puppy IDs per se wouldn't be much use - how do you distinguish between nine black labradors except by gender? but we could microchip and DNA test at the same time and it wouldn't take much longer than it used to take to dock and dew claw - and would be a start towards a national, freely available database of the pedigree and test results of every registered dog, with a facility to calculate CoI of existing dogs and hypothetical matings.

ms