Bendy Feet

[storm1]

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THAT LOOKS VERY DRASTIC TO ME DOES ANYONE KNOW

IF COLIN/ALISONS NO LIMIT DOG[ANDREW] OK

 

[wild whippies]

Storm 1 they all do it, it's a natural action of dog locomotion and if their legs didn't bend whilst running the forces exerted would surely break their legs.

 

[Vicky]

Brookhill Maggie is exactly the same, if you look at her pic she looks like she's up to the wrist in sand.

 

[billyboy45]

Tried to do a slideshow to save you all clicking but won't let me use all images, sorry.

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Whats the story behind Deenside Belle's foot,as it looks smashed or summit. ...Billy...

 

[milly]

Tried to do a slideshow to save you all clicking but won't let me use all images, sorry.

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Whats the story behind Deenside Belle's foot,as it looks smashed or summit. ...Billy...

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If you look at the photo of Deneside Belle after him winning the No Limit final, his foot looks ok. Theres no swelling, he doesn't seem to be holding it up or in any discomfert :thumbsup: Does anybody think that Colin & Alison would knowingly run him off in the supreme final with a smashed foot? The owners of this dog are knowledgable whippet racers, I spoke to my vet about the angle of this dogs foot, and he said its a physical impossibility. He said its a trick of the camera!

Have you tried to bend a dogs foot to this angle? IMPOSSIBLE!

PS No offence Jacs

 

[wild whippies]

Nah I'm not offended at all Geoff, the reason I thought it was physically bending is because I've got so many piks of dogs doing it, even pups! :lol:

I'm glad if anything you've posted with an explanation because personally I was concerned that people would think I would post a pik of a dog getting injured deliberately when we know that's just not the case. Thanks

 

[billyboy45]

Would it be summit like double jointedness in human's or what.Ive seen dogs with realy well laid back pasterns,that didnt look right,and i judged one at a time,who had the tendons completely gone on a wrist,and when you would stretch his leg out in front of him,from the wrist down just hung there.Never tried bending the other way though.The owner convinced me that it done him no harm,and that the dog was an exelent jumper,over any hight.I refused to believe him,till the dog came 2nd in the simulated ,and that was with jumps n all.So these unexplainable occurances do crop up from time to time,and it was a chance in a million,that it was captured in a photo.Exelent work Jac. If you dont mind,i would like to show this to a few Greyhound mates,which would mean printing it out. ...Billy...PS.Will wait for you're go ahead first though.

 

[Tony Taylor]

The owners of this dog are knowledgable whippet racers, I spoke to my vet about the angle of this dogs foot, and he said its a physical impossibility. He said its a trick of the camera!Have you tried to bend a dogs foot to this angle? IMPOSSIBLE!

PS No offence Jacs

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This particular photo was taken at 1/1250 of a second. Point being that this is more than fast enough to completely freeze the action, It's impossible to see this with the naked eye as it's happening too fast. This is no trick of the camera and that is how Deneside Belle was posistioned at the time. This is not a unique one off picture and all photos of dogs at this stage of their running action show a similar degree of flex at the wrist.

I had a whippet that snapped the ligaments in it's wrist and had no problems bending it's foot to that angle. The wrist of the dog is designed so that it only bends when loaded in a particular direction. If you try and bend it by grabbing hold of the leg it won't budge but if you press down at the shoulder you will see the wrist flex. Older running dogs that have had a lot of running often drop at the wrist due to streching of these ligaments. The amount of force a 50lb+ dog running at 40mph generates is enormous, witness the results of one of them running into you at speed, and all this force is being absorbed by the ligaments in the wrist. It's not suprising they bend. The average person has no chance of being able to generate the same levels of force on the limb.

To be fair I wouldn't have believed they bent to such a degree either withot seeing the pics but having seen such a large number of photos like this the only conclusion I can reasonably make is that is how much the wrist can flex (w00t)

 

[billyboy45]

Witness one of them running into you at speed.Been there ,wore the t shirt,and will now limp happily ever after.And it was'nt a wee Whippet,as the bitch was a 65 lb greyhound and took my knee to pieces,which will eventualy have to be completely rebuilt.She was given the racing name,DISLOCATER.And was one of the best early paced bitches in Ireland.So when she hit me at full speed,she hit me.

 

[milly]

The owners of this dog are knowledgable whippet racers, I spoke to my vet about the angle of this dogs foot, and he said its a physical impossibility. He said its a trick of the camera!Have you tried to bend a dogs foot to this angle? IMPOSSIBLE!

PS No offence Jacs

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This particular photo was taken at 1/1250 of a second. Point being that this is more than fast enough to completely freeze the action, It's impossible to see this with the naked eye as it's happening too fast. This is no trick of the camera and that is how Deneside Belle was posistioned at the time. This is not a unique one off picture and all photos of dogs at this stage of their running action show a similar degree of flex at the wrist.

I had a whippet that snapped the ligaments in it's wrist and had no problems bending it's foot to that angle. The wrist of the dog is designed so that it only bends when loaded in a particular direction. If you try and bend it by grabbing hold of the leg it won't budge but if you press down at the shoulder you will see the wrist flex. Older running dogs that have had a lot of running often drop at the wrist due to streching of these ligaments. The amount of force a 50lb+ dog running at 40mph generates is enormous, witness the results of one of them running into you at speed, and all this force is being absorbed by the ligaments in the wrist. It's not suprising they bend. The average person has no chance of being able to generate the same levels of force on the limb.

To be fair I wouldn't have believed they bent to such a degree either withot seeing the pics but having seen such a large number of photos like this the only conclusion I can reasonably make is that is how much the wrist can flex (w00t)

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I can't agree with your explanation Tony, I'm 16 stone and can't get the dogs wrist to flex anywhere near that angle, will ask Robert Meek is opinion.

Geoff ps lets get real here, just take another look at the angle

 

[wild whippies]

My theory. I don't think all dogs can do it I think it's comparable to humans who are ''double jointed''. Humans can get a syndrome called Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, as well as being able to bend joints abnormally they also have skin that can be stretched excessively. This syndrome is at the far end of the scale but there are others (like myself) who can also bend joints back abnormally, what I've also noticed is the more often I do this, the greater the laxity of the joint increases. Young children usually have quite lax joints too with the ligaments being softer than in an adult (you can try this out yourself by bending your thumb back and seeing if you can touch your wrist) like below

View attachment 42291

If you can do this you have a degree of hypermobility (now try getting your legs round your neck) (w00t)

I did a spot of googling using 'dogs, carpal and laxity' which revealed this to be a recognised trait in certain breeds of dogs, although these were more severe cases where the dogs had problems with general walking (i.e. the canine equivalent of Ehlers-danlos syndrome) Going on this, my theory is that dogs, like humans can have varying degrees of ligament flexibility - it doesn't mean there's anything wrong, more a matter that some can and some can't. It would explain why dogs also have a carpal pad (hock pad)

I'd love to here what Robert Meeks has to say because I was thinking the same as you Geoff in that if anyone would know then he would.

X-ray of Carpal Luxation if anyone is interested.



I also came across an agility article about how dew claws apparently stabilize the carpal joint for this sole reason when a dog is running and that hunting / racing and agility dogs shouldn't have them removed although I personally disagree with this.

Tony if what you say is true and you can demonstrate this then I want you to show me so I can add some piks.

 

[fallenangel]

I have no idea if this is right or not but i have seen quit a few pics like this there have been a few on k9. i think devon last year there was a pic or 2 but dont quot me on that. what ever the reson it looks very odd

 

[Tony Taylor]

I can't agree with your explanation Tony, I'm 16 stone and can't get the dogs wrist to flex anywhere near that angle, will ask Robert Meek is opinion.                      Geoff ps lets get real here, just take another look at the angle

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Perhaps Jac can produce a bendy leg picture CD for you and Rob Meeks et al. I've found several other examples and maybe Jac can post these. The pics are a true representation of what is happening.

As Jac says that's what the "stopper" pad is for.

Remember the forces involved are enormous; more than a 16 stone man would produce and increases with the square of the speed so that the force on the wrist is 4 times greater at 40mph than 20 mph.

 

[Scotty]

Great Pics, and yes they do bend that far, I have several photos with the same flex,

 

[fallenangel]

can you put them up please

 

[Tony Taylor]

Jac found this in one of her Mums old books " Dog Locomotion and Gait Analysis" by Curtis M. Brown.

 

[ahorsnall]

heres one of my monkey at the tyrone :thumbsup:

 

[stormydog]

View attachment 42297

hope this comes out...number 11 shows this action again...id say the amount of pastern-deflection depends on the lbs/sq" being exerted

john

 

[stormydog]

and again as the dog speeds up..

 

[Keith Earnshaw]

1 of must be magic doing the same ( flash in red jacket )