Biting Help Needed Please

[jue332]

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My Evie was a biter too , she was an only dog at the time,

we did the ignoring thing, the saying NO in a firm voice and walking away. All of which helped and she soon got the massage

When we got Gracie she hardly ever tried biting but she did have Evie as well to tell her NO.

I'm sorry you are having such a tough time, but I promise she will grow out of it and it sounds like you are doing the right thing :thumbsup:

Just another thought you don't think it could be the name EVIE do you :lol:

 

[alilemur]

Having read this thread I think all the advise is good. It is so sda when you feel you can't do anything to remedy a situation, especially when you love your dog so much. Just one addition - have you ever watched The Dog Whisperer with Cesar Milan? I know some people don't agree with his methods but he seems to know his stuff (I read the book too). Anyway, our Buffy was a bit of a biter and I tried the thing where you pin her down by the neck (that sounds aweful - I didn't do it in an agressive way honestly!) and get her to lay on her side - you have to be confident though ('calm, assertive energy' as Cesar puts it). She submits and if you attempt to move your hand away and she is still hyped up your re-apply gentle force to keep her down and so on until you remove your hand and she still lays there submissive and calm for a few seconds. It is best if you see it in real life as it honestly isn't being aggressive of hurting her (I would never do that to my babay Buff!! :wub: ). This did the trick after a couple of times. Buffy is now 1year old and occassionally she gets over excited and goes to snap at me (especially if I have been winding her up playing too excitedly!) - just a light touch on her neck and she submits and calms down. All our dogs respond to different things and I think it is useful to try as many as you can and see what works for you.

I hope you make progress soon. Fingers crossed. :luck:

Alison

 

[~Annie~]

Reading the thread no one seems to have mentioned diet as an issue. What are you feeding Evie? Some foods, e.g. Butchers, contain additives that seem to fuel this kind of hyperactivity.

We had a totally manic cocker spaniel a while back who at Evie's age behaved a bit as you describe. A lot of the time he seemed to be testing boundaries (just like kids do) and we realised that although we had rules for him our kids didn't always keep them. It wasn't easy achieving consistency as our youngest was only six at the time but we worked as hard on the four kids as on the dog and taught everyone a kind of sharp growly 'off' to snap at him if he moved to bite and made sure they all knew exactly what was permitted and what wasn't. E.g. although one daughter was keeping to the not on the beds rule we discovered the other one was encouraging him to get comfy on her duvet.

I can imagine how difficult this must be when so much in your life is topsy turvey, but although it took a little time we did stop Jasper biting and I feel sure you'll get there with Evie too.

TMC (aka Annie)

(Ooh, my first post on K9 after weeks of lurking - hi everyone)

 

[jostler]

Reading the thread no one seems to have mentioned diet as an issue. What are you feeding Evie? Some foods, e.g. Butchers, contain additives that seem to fuel this kind of hyperactivity.
We had a totally manic cocker spaniel a while back who at Evie's age behaved a bit as you describe. A lot of the time he seemed to be testing boundaries (just like kids do) and we realised that although we had rules for him our kids didn't always keep them. It wasn't easy achieving consistency as our youngest was only six at the time but we worked as hard on the four kids as on the dog and taught everyone a kind of sharp growly 'off' to snap at him if he moved to bite and made sure they all knew exactly what was permitted and what wasn't. E.g. although one daughter was keeping to the not on the beds rule we discovered the other one was encouraging him to get comfy on her duvet.

I can imagine how difficult this must be when so much in your life is topsy turvey, but although it took a little time we did stop Jasper biting and I feel sure you'll get there with Evie too.

TMC (aka Annie)

(Ooh, my first post on K9 after weeks of lurking - hi everyone)

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Hi Annie and welcome - it's a great site, full of support and laughs :cheers:

your point about Butchers interested me. I have a gorgeous little 14 week old whippie who's biting is MUCH better. But I occasionally feed him Butchers when I run out of the raw diet he adores that seems to suit him. I shall not buy Butchers now I know about the additives and be more organised about defrosting the raw diet nuggets I have in the freezer :thumbsup:

HopeRosie - I do hope Evie is causing you less grief :sweating: and life is looking up a bit :lol: :huggles: Do give us an update

 

[kell]

Hi

Some really useful advise there... I have a 10 week old whippet pup called Lily who occasionally does the biting thing... but I am consistent in saying no firmly and ignoring her, or replacing my fingers and toes with a toy. I find my biggest problem is the other members of my family who aren't so consistent... It's them I need to work on too.

I too am new on this forum-

Good luck!

 

[Trish]

Hi
Some really useful advise there... I have a 10 week old whippet pup called Lily who occasionally does the biting thing... but I am consistent in saying no firmly and ignoring her, or replacing my fingers and toes with a toy.  I find my biggest problem is the other members of my family who aren't so consistent... It's them I need to work on too.

I too am new on this forum- 

Good luck!

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welcome to the forum,im sure we all would love to see some pics of little lily,she as a beautiful name .

my pup is oliver and hes 12 weeks old today :huggles:

i can relate to what you say about other members in your family,i too have to work from time to time on my lot even the hubby as to be told of certain things :lol:

 

[HopeRosie]

Well things were going better yesterday - but today shes been the devils spawn dawg She thinks the world of my boyfriend, and he just has to point at her bed and shes in it, he growls nooo and shes sooo sorry but with me its as if shes going "yeah make me". Its not for the want of trying either, use a low determined growly voice - Ive even pinned her down on the floor and made her stay there - she looks apologetic then runs round the back of me and bites the back of my legs. We play tuggy, I ask her to "leave it" she does straight away, I then ask her to "sit" to get the toy back and I keep it at the end of the game. She sits before getting her food and I go through doors etc before she does. She doesnt sleep on my bed (she sleeps in a crate in the kitchen) and shes not allowed on the sofa either. She doesnt seem to back down with me like she does with my boyfriend. My boyfriend and I only see each other a couple of times a week and we are not going to move intogether just yet so its all down to me at the mo. Shes being walked twice a day every day rain or shine, on and off lead, she always comes back when called (I use a whistle) and her walks are between 20mins and 45 mins long each so shes getting exercise and running about time. Shes eating James Wellbeloved at the moment which she likes and is additive free and fairly simple diet, although I think I might look at Burns at some point. Raw food isnt an option as I have no freezer space. I dont feel that Im being all namby pamby with her, I am a single parent with two lively boys, and until feb I was a nursery teacher for some children with special needs, so even though Im feeling very down about everything Im not a push over type of person. Im trying to be consistent with her and assertive - but its not working at the moment.

Ive been reading the dog whisperer, and Ive tried to follow some of his ideas, Ive also had a word with my vet and Ive had a chat with their behaviourist - whos popping out tonight at 3.30 to see whats happening. We are definately having problems finding other dogs for her to run around with. One of the places I took her yesterday is one of the places ive seen other dogs and their owners. We met two collies, a highland terrier and two JRTS, they all had elderly owners and they all said, ooh dont let your pup near mine -our dogs bite/snarl/eat puppies for breakfast... it didnt help my exhaust fell off the car just as I got to the car park.........clonk - had to go back to the car park entrance to collect it more money...

Shes a really lovely puppy and I love her to pieces even though Ive cried buckets and thought OMG what have I done. If Rosie had been here she would have put her in her place and made her toe the line - having two dogs again isnt really an option as I feel that Evie needs all my attention at the moment.

 

[trac]

i'm sending big :huggles: do you think its because you are with her all the time,she is trying to dominate?

 

[HopeRosie]

Possibly trac - but there are times every day when Im out of the house (school run and shopping etc) so Im not with her 24/7 but yes I think she is trying to dominate me and when it doesnt work shes escalating things.

This lady called Paula is coming out at 3.30 this afternoon - recommended by the local vet hospital, just to see what Evie is doing and and show me what to do. We will sort this out, I just need someone that knows dog behaviour to physically see what Evie is doing and then we can work out how to stop it now.

 

[IanGerman]

I have had no experience of this so can't add anything. I did pick up on the Butcher's comments though - and my view is exactly the opposite. As far as I'm aware Butchers is the ONLY tinned dog food that doesn't bulk up its product with maize, wheat etc. What you get is 100% animal product - it may not be the choices cuts, but the whippies don't care about that!

Mine love it - especially the smelly tripe one

 

[trac]

Possibly trac - but there are times every day when Im out of the house (school run and shopping etc) so Im not with her 24/7 but yes I think she is trying to dominate me and when it doesnt work shes escalating things.
This lady called Paula is coming out at 3.30 this afternoon - recommended by the local vet hospital, just to see what Evie is doing and and show me what to do.  We will sort this out, I just need someone that knows dog behaviour to physically see what Evie is doing and then we can work out how to stop it now.

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good luck for this afternoon :thumbsup:

 

[littlenell]

Please let us know how you got on with the behaviourist. :luck: :luck:

Tina

 

[~Annie~]

I have had no experience of this so can't add anything. I did pick up on the Butcher's comments though - and my view is exactly the opposite. As far as I'm aware Butchers is the ONLY tinned dog food that doesn't bulk up its product with maize, wheat etc. What you get is 100% animal product - it may not be the choices cuts, but the whippies don't care about that!
Mine love it - especially the smelly tripe one 

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Sorry, that should have said Bakers (how embarrassed am I) :">

TMC (aka Annie)

 

[HopeRosie]

Ok so we saw the behaviourist and she spent 2 HOURS !! with us and was a complete star. She said that Evie was a very bright dog and picked things up really quickly and that Evie obviously felt good around me and we had a good bond. She said that everything I had done socialising Evie and the training I had done with her already was brilliant and that I was being fair and firm with her as I should be. She said that what had been probably been happening is that Evie just didnt know when to stop, she hasnt learnt to yet, and because of her love of tuggy games we had been playing those games with her and she had just got used to using her teeth on everything and getting rather oTT. She snatches treats and because she can get the treat by using her teeth she rewards herself. She is a rather dominant girly and Im not used to that because Rosie was soo not. Ive been using the same rules for Evie that I used for Rosie, but Evie is very quick to work things out and has worked out that maybe she has to be boss. So we have some new rules to work to:

1. Every time I enter the house Ive got to ignore her completely for a min of 5 mins, Ive got to then call her to me and praise her. (she currently goes loopy when I enter the house and nips).

2. Weve all got to eat before she does and Ive got to pretend to eat from her bowl. She got to sit and wait before I say "go on then" and she can then eat so its a bit more under my control. (she currently just sits, and as the bowl goes down, she goes for the food).

3. Nothing in life is free - to play shes got to sit or down first, to get foods shes got to earn it, to get cuddles shes got to "come" first etc.

4. Ive got to stop leaving the back door open when Im home, she currently goes in and out as she wants.

5. ive got to use the same words, eye contact tone and body language. Firm and clear commands.

6. Remove all tuggy type toys as shes got really used to using her teeth to play. Play different games with her, she currently likes chasing bubbles! Ive got to control play a bit more, so if she brings a toy to me ignore her, but initiate lots of fun and games and introduce a "finish" command so she knows when play is finished.

7. Ignore or correct unwanted behaviour and reward wanted behavior this will eventually extingish the bad stuff and make her want to do the good stuff more and will teach Evie to grow in a positive way.

8. If she uses her teeth making a louch high pitched yelp noise and turn/walk away game finished, all attention finished.

9. Ignore all whining or attention seeking behaviour.

10. Give her lots of attention when shes being calm but withdraw attention when shes going OTT.

it may seem like a lot but a lot of it is just small changes and more about me taking control of the situation rather than Evie trying to control it. We will still have lots of fun and games and loads of puppy cuddles and whippy kisses but she will have better boundaries and a bit more structure.

 

[kell]

Hi
Some really useful advise there... I have a 10 week old whippet pup called Lily who occasionally does the biting thing... but I am consistent in saying no firmly and ignoring her, or replacing my fingers and toes with a toy.  I find my biggest problem is the other members of my family who aren't so consistent... It's them I need to work on too.

I too am new on this forum- 

Good luck!

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welcome to the forum,im sure we all would love to see some pics of little lily,she as a beautiful name .

my pup is oliver and hes 12 weeks old today :huggles:

i can relate to what you say about other members in your family,i too have to work from time to time on my lot even the hubby as to be told of certain things :lol:

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I have tried to post a picture and start a new topic, but it says my files are too big, not sure how to reduce them...I keep getting error messages.. :blink:

 

[jostler]

Ok so we saw the behaviourist and she spent 2 HOURS !! with us and was a complete star.  She said that Evie was a very bright dog and picked things up really quickly and that Evie obviously felt good around me and we had a good bond.  She said that everything I had done socialising Evie and the training I had done with her already was brilliant and that I was being fair and firm with her as I should be.  She said that what had been probably been happening is that Evie just didnt know when to stop, she hasnt learnt to yet, and because of her love of tuggy games we had been playing those games with her and she had just got used to using her teeth on everything and getting rather oTT.  She snatches treats and because she can get the treat by using her teeth she rewards herself.  She is a rather dominant girly and Im not used to that because Rosie was soo not.  Ive been using the same rules for Evie that I used for Rosie, but Evie is very quick to work things out and has worked out that maybe she has to be boss.  So we have some new rules to work to:
1. Every time I enter the house Ive got to ignore her completely for a min of 5 mins, Ive got to then call her to me and praise her.  (she currently goes loopy when I enter the house and nips).

2. Weve all got to eat before she does and Ive got to pretend to eat from her bowl.  She got to sit and wait before I say "go on then" and she can then eat so its a bit more under my control. (she currently just sits, and as the bowl goes down, she goes for the food).

3. Nothing in life is free - to play shes got to sit or down first, to get foods shes got to earn it, to get cuddles shes got to "come" first etc. 

4. Ive got to stop leaving the back door open when Im home, she currently goes in and out as she wants. 

5. ive got to use the same words, eye contact tone and body language.  Firm and clear commands.

6. Remove all tuggy type toys as shes got really used to using her teeth to play. Play different games with her, she currently likes chasing bubbles!  Ive got to control play a bit more, so if she brings a toy to me ignore her, but initiate lots of fun and games and introduce a "finish" command so she knows when play is finished.

7.  Ignore or correct unwanted behaviour and reward wanted behavior this will eventually extingish the bad stuff and make her want to do the good stuff more and will teach Evie to grow in a positive way.

8. If she uses her teeth making a louch high pitched yelp noise and turn/walk away game finished, all attention finished.

9. Ignore all whining or attention seeking behaviour.

10. Give her lots of attention when shes being calm but withdraw attention when shes going OTT.

it may seem like a lot but a lot of it is just small changes and more about me taking control of the situation rather than Evie trying to control it.  We will still have lots of fun and games and loads of puppy cuddles and whippy kisses but she will have better boundaries and a bit more structure.

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Thanks so much for posting that in list form - it's helpful for us too with our pup who still occasionally gets nippy and OTT, although I don't think he's quite so keen to be top dog as your Evie. That's so helpful and hope it really works for you and Evie, who sounds like she's a great little character in the making :huggles:

 

[jostler]

Hi
Some really useful advise there... I have a 10 week old whippet pup called Lily who occasionally does the biting thing... but I am consistent in saying no firmly and ignoring her, or replacing my fingers and toes with a toy.  I find my biggest problem is the other members of my family who aren't so consistent... It's them I need to work on too.

I too am new on this forum- 

Good luck!

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welcome to the forum,im sure we all would love to see some pics of little lily,she as a beautiful name .

my pup is oliver and hes 12 weeks old today :huggles:

i can relate to what you say about other members in your family,i too have to work from time to time on my lot even the hubby as to be told of certain things :lol:

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I have tried to post a picture and start a new topic, but it says my files are too big, not sure how to reduce them...I keep getting error messages.. :blink:

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Welcome Kell, love your pup's name (my daughter is a Lily and I think it the loveliest name for any beautiful girl :wub: ) I have great trouble with resizing pics but there are some much more capable photographers on this forum who'll give you better advice. I know many use photobucket. I have an iMac and, using iPhoto, I go to the export function and there I can resize the pics (they have to be under 80 mb to post I think) but they end up rather small. There is a FAQ on the site to help too.

Good luck :cheers:

 

[maggie217]

1. Every time I enter the house Ive got to ignore her completely for a min of 5 mins, Ive got to then call her to me and praise her.  (she currently goes loopy when I enter the house and nips).

2. Weve all got to eat before she does and Ive got to pretend to eat from her bowl.  She got to sit and wait before I say "go on then" and she can then eat so its a bit more under my control. (she currently just sits, and as the bowl goes down, she goes for the food).

Although I haven't had your particular experience myself a friend of mine had a young whippet cross who was showing the same behaviour when he was young and was given the advice you have been recommended in 1] and 2].

Also it was added that everyone, stranger or friend, as well as yourselves, when visiting the house must absolutely ignore the dog for 5 minutes or so. Also the advice in 2] was followed and the dog's behavour did improve tremendously when he learnt that he wasn't the most important person around. Of course, lots of love etc. when he had quietened down. They had very young children also and the dog, now elderly, has been great with them.

Hope this helps and gives encouragement

 

[kell]

Thanks Jostler

I will have to go and see what I can do...I'm sure it can't be too difficult.. :wacko:

 

[HopeRosie]

Just a little update -

Weve been following the new "rules" for a few days now but already I can really notice the difference and shes only mouthed me once with her teeth in the last couple of days, Im not expecting miracles but I feel a lot more confident than I did. In our training class on friday she was a complete angel, really listening to me for longer than before (well as much as a 12 weekold pup could) - and there was no snatching at the treats because Ive taught her to move her nose away from my hand before I give her the treat so no more grazed fingers. She will now also wait for her food bowl , (only a couple of seconds). We do ignore her when weve come in and shes learnt that if she sits quietly she gets attention - she sort of squirms trying to will herself to sit still lol Weve stopped playing tuggy games and as the weather has been so foul the back door has been shut so she cant go in and out whenever she wants. She taught herself yesterday that if she jumps up at the back door she can jangle the keyring with keys that stays in the lock. She jangles the keys - I let her out for a wee! Weve played loads of fetch which is much more under control and lots of "find me" I hide - she finds me, and of course there are still loads of ball games and whippy kisses and cuddles.

Weve found about five different walks to go on - each with off lead bits, we are going out twice a day every day which is good for both of us (although a little damp at the mo!).

She also had a marrow bone today to chomp on - she wore herself out with that one - although she was confined to the kitchen with that one - and I had to keep an eye on her in case she got into trouble!

So all :thumbsup: so far