Breeding Practices

[05whippet]

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Personally i would NEVER have 2 litters at the same time & i dont care what the circumstances are but thats me.
I have been around too long & heard ALL the excuses under the sun but still i would not personally choose to do this, i dont care what any one says but 2 litters of pups are not going to get the same amount of attention, time & devotion as one even if you are superman/woman, also its a lot of homes to find for the pups & yes anyone can find homes BUT not always necessary the right homes & then pups are returned at a later date all very unsettling for all concerned. I know many do it in many different breeds not just whippets & they have a multitude of excuses, you cant stop them as its a free country but you dont have to agree with it.

Regarding back to back matings, i can not stress strongly enough how absolutely hideous i think this is & i dont care if the bitch had a singleton pup in the first litter i still think any bitch should be allowed a rest & a season in between.

Again personally i think 3 litters is more than enough for any bitch, to me 1 or 2 litters is ok, but why keep mating the same bitch over & over if its not for the money??

Just my opinion.

Yes & sometimes they just are'nt excuses but fact! And I disagree that you cant give the same amount of attention to two litters...it all depends on how many pups you have in total and what your lifestyle is.....cos I think that I as someone who stays at home and does'nt work would be able to offer much more time to two litters as someone who works an 8hr day can with one litter! Personally I think people should be a bit less judgemental until they KNOW all the facts regarding each individuals circumstances. And yes,I agree good homes are hard to find & no you can't guarantee that the pups you home to these homes wont come back to you at some stage but that can be said for everyone and MY opinion is if you don't have the space to take back the entire litter (ok,this most likely wont happen...but best look at it from the worst case scenario) then you should'nt be breeding AT ALL!!

Back to back matings are another subject altogether & one which I do agree with you on,as is breeding from a bitch more than twice in her lifetime...which is something that I personally would'nt do nor feel the need to do.

And that's just my opinion.

And just for the record (in case this refers to me or my posts) I am not "throwing toys out of the pram" but rather answering a relevant post that was made earlier regarding having two litters on the ground at once & that the only reason for it was money related.

 

[anniewhippet]

Wow, we seem to have abit of 'toys coming out of prams' part way through this thread..............why? Personality clashes always happen but open boards are not the place to air them.

I think my original question was justified and most of the answers referred to this, even if only in part with some, and there have been some quite interesting, and relevant replies.

We seem to have an agreement about back to back litters, and the numbers involved, being unacceptable and I, like the majority, feel a bitch deserves a season between her litters, and I also agree that I think 3 is a maximum number I would have.

Saying that I rarely breed, have only had 2 litters from 1 bitch spaced over quite a few years and breed to run on our next generation.

But I also have to agree that I am not yet comfortable with the ABS, a breeder scheme it is, but accredited?????

 

[nina]

Personally i would NEVER have 2 litters at the same time & i dont care what the circumstances are but thats me.
I have been around too long & heard ALL the excuses under the sun but still i would not personally choose to do this, i dont care what any one says but 2 litters of pups are not going to get the same amount of attention, time & devotion as one even if you are superman/woman, also its a lot of homes to find for the pups & yes anyone can find homes BUT not always necessary the right homes & then pups are returned at a later date all very unsettling for all concerned. I know many do it in many different breeds not just whippets & they have a multitude of excuses, you cant stop them as its a free country but you dont have to agree with it.

Regarding back to back matings, i can not stress strongly enough how absolutely hideous i think this is & i dont care if the bitch had a singleton pup in the first litter i still think any bitch should be allowed a rest & a season in between.

Again personally i think 3 litters is more than enough for any bitch, to me 1 or 2 litters is ok, but why keep mating the same bitch over & over if its not for the money??

Just my opinion.

Yes & sometimes they just are'nt excuses but fact! And I disagree that you cant give the same amount of attention to two litters...it all depends on how many pups you have in total and what your lifestyle is.....cos I think that I as someone who stays at home and does'nt work would be able to offer much more time to two litters as someone who works an 8hr day can with one litter! Personally I think people should be a bit less judgemental until they KNOW all the facts regarding each individuals circumstances. And yes,I agree good homes are hard to find & no you can't guarantee that the pups you home to these homes wont come back to you at some stage but that can be said for everyone and MY opinion is if you don't have the space to take back the entire litter (ok,this most likely wont happen...but best look at it from the worst case scenario) then you should'nt be breeding AT ALL!!

Back to back matings are another subject altogether & one which I do agree with you on,as is breeding from a bitch more than twice in her lifetime...which is something that I personally would'nt do.

And that's just my opinion.

As you are quoting my post i will reply, to you.

I was actually speaking in general, quoting no one, just giving my opinion.

On this we will have to agree to disagree, lets leave it at that.

 

[05whippet]

Wow, we seem to have abit of 'toys coming out of prams' part way through this thread..............why? Personality clashes always happen but open boards are not the place to air them.I think my original question was justified and most of the answers referred to this, even if only in part with some, and there have been some quite interesting, and relevant replies.

We seem to have an agreement about back to back litters, and the numbers involved, being unacceptable and I, like the majority, feel a bitch deserves a season between her litters, and I also agree that I think 3 is a maximum number I would have.

Saying that I rarely breed, have only had 2 litters from 1 bitch spaced over quite a few years and breed to run on our next generation.

But I also have to agree that I am not yet comfortable with the ABS, a breeder scheme it is, but accredited?????

I completely agree with your last sentence above.

 

[nina]

Wow, we seem to have abit of 'toys coming out of prams' part way through this thread..............why? Personality clashes always happen but open boards are not the place to air them.I think my original question was justified and most of the answers referred to this, even if only in part with some, and there have been some quite interesting, and relevant replies.

We seem to have an agreement about back to back litters, and the numbers involved, being unacceptable and I, like the majority, feel a bitch deserves a season between her litters, and I also agree that I think 3 is a maximum number I would have.

Saying that I rarely breed, have only had 2 litters from 1 bitch spaced over quite a few years and breed to run on our next generation.

But I also have to agree that I am not yet comfortable with the ABS, a breeder scheme it is, but accredited?????

Absolutely Annie, accredited its NOT!

 

[nina]

I'm not going to get into editing prior posts. Ive stated my opinion which was in general & if anyone wants to make it personal then hey if the glove fits.

It was a general comment on a wide spectrum of breeds.

 

[liza]

Personally i would NEVER have 2 litters at the same time & i dont care what the circumstances are but thats me.
I have been around too long & heard ALL the excuses under the sun but still i would not personally choose to do this, i dont care what any one says but 2 litters of pups are not going to get the same amount of attention, time & devotion as one even if you are superman/woman, also its a lot of homes to find for the pups & yes anyone can find homes BUT not always necessary the right homes & then pups are returned at a later date all very unsettling for all concerned. I know many do it in many different breeds not just whippets & they have a multitude of excuses, you cant stop them as its a free country but you dont have to agree with it.

Regarding back to back matings, i can not stress strongly enough how absolutely hideous i think this is & i dont care if the bitch had a singleton pup in the first litter i still think any bitch should be allowed a rest & a season in between.

Again personally i think 3 litters is more than enough for any bitch, to me 1 or 2 litters is ok, but why keep mating the same bitch over & over if its not for the money??

Just my opinion.

you can give the same care and attention to each litter i spend a hour on each litter

i am sorry but you can also find good homes all of my pups except 5 are all going to lovely pet home i have checked them out i know them very well i have had the people down each weekend for lunch

one husband & wife come up nearly every night to see their girl two of the pups are going to live with a barrister and he's wife they had one of jo davis pups 14 years ago and have just lost her of old age

they always have 2 together i am keeping three pups my mums having one and a friend is having one hopefully to show

about the accredited breeder scheme

i spoke to them a cople of months ago about home visits i said that was one of the reasons i joinned

they only do home checks if they get coplaints about a breeder they do put a questionairre in the puppy sales wallets for the new owners to fill out the new owners dont put their names on the form they just fill it out and send it to the kennel club itheir is only one good thing about tha accredited breeder is you breeding stock has to be D N A profiled and health checked that was why i had katie and rosie heart tested i have now got to get bill done now befor he goes to stud

 

[bertha]

The Kennel Club have allowed a golden opportunity to slip by. When they introduced their code of conduct that they expect all breed clubs to adopt, why on earth did they not apply this to their own clubs registration department???? It would instantly stop these people from over breeding, breeders from having two litters at the same time or within a couple of weeks between breeding. They could have stated that anyone breeding more than one litter in any 12 months would not be allowed to register their litter.I know it's draconian, but how can we protect our breed from people who exploit them and breed purely for cash. After all, having to litters at the same time can only be for money.

I can see why you might be concerned about breeders with multiple litters on the ground but I'm struggling to see what's wrong with breeding 2 litters from different bitches in a 12 mth period. I have a friend who this year chose to breed a second litter from her bitch and to breed from her keeper from that bitches first litter. She wasn't breeding for money and has, as intended, kept a pup from each litter. She won't be breeding at all next year, didn't last year, and has only bred these 3 litters in total, so why would her 2 litters this year be reason to disallow registration. She could have chosen to breed once from each bitch in consecutive years and would have bred the same number of puppies in total. Surely it's not how many litters in any given year (within reason) that's the problem, but how many pups overall. Personally I think bitches should be limited to 3 litters max, with at least a year between litters, but that's just my opinion.

I think you misunderstood me, two litters in the nest at the same time, not an ideal situation IMO. Why would any normal thinking person mate two bitches at the same time? I must be old fashioned in my idea of breeding, when people only bred to have a pup to bring out.

 

[starswift]

didnt think you were gonna use bill at stud as you quoted on the post about inbreeding

 

[quintessence]

I'm sorry but I'm going to lock this topic now. Earlier today I spent a good deal of time splitting the topic hoping that it could continue in a healthy manner but I regret that it does not seem possible.

Jenny

 

[quintessence]

OK, I have removed several posts and edited other posts in order to remove selected pieces. I would like this thread to continue because some good posts have been made, I will have, however, have to remind everyone of the board rules in particular:-

We require all posts to be appropriate, constructive, and on topic. We may delete or move individual posts that could ruin a good topic thread. We reserve the right to remove any topics or posts we deem inappropriate or disruptive to our community. Please note that, from time to time, posts may be removed for being inappropriate even though the individual post in that topic may have been perfectly fine. Please do not feel this reflects badly on the poster.

 

Do not use K9 Community to air your grievances. As examples: If you have a problem with a breeder, handler, partner, co-owner, or kennel keep it private; do not complain about them publicly on K9. If someone on K9 asks about a particular breeder or kennel and you have negative information about them DO NOT put that information on the board get in touch privately.

 

Threatening, flaming, rude or abusive treatment of other members, groups, persons or organisations on the Message Board or Gallery, in the Chat Room or through email or PM will NOT be tolerated. If you feel you must criticise then criticise the idea not the individual or group. Any posts criticising individuals or groups will probably get removed and those doing the criticising will probably be warned via the warning system.

Many thanks, I'm doing my best!!

 

[nina]

For obvious reasons i can't post what i want to post so i will just quote a well known saying

" A leopard never changes its spots"

 

[~Annie~]

The Kennel Club have allowed a golden opportunity to slip by. When they introduced their code of conduct that they expect all breed clubs to adopt, why on earth did they not apply this to their own clubs registration department???? It would instantly stop these people from over breeding, breeders from having two litters at the same time or within a couple of weeks between breeding. They could have stated that anyone breeding more than one litter in any 12 months would not be allowed to register their litter.I know it's draconian, but how can we protect our breed from people who exploit them and breed purely for cash. After all, having to litters at the same time can only be for money.

I can see why you might be concerned about breeders with multiple litters on the ground but I'm struggling to see what's wrong with breeding 2 litters from different bitches in a 12 mth period. I have a friend who this year chose to breed a second litter from her bitch and to breed from her keeper from that bitches first litter. She wasn't breeding for money and has, as intended, kept a pup from each litter. She won't be breeding at all next year, didn't last year, and has only bred these 3 litters in total, so why would her 2 litters this year be reason to disallow registration. She could have chosen to breed once from each bitch in consecutive years and would have bred the same number of puppies in total. Surely it's not how many litters in any given year (within reason) that's the problem, but how many pups overall. Personally I think bitches should be limited to 3 litters max, with at least a year between litters, but that's just my opinion.

I think you misunderstood me, two litters in the nest at the same time, not an ideal situation IMO. Why would any normal thinking person mate two bitches at the same time? I must be old fashioned in my idea of breeding, when people only bred to have a pup to bring out.

Apologies if I have ... and I agree, two litters on the ground together is not ideal :thumbsup:

Annie

 

[nina]

I think you misunderstood me, two litters in the nest at the same time, not an ideal situation IMO. Why would any normal thinking person mate two bitches at the same time? I must be old fashioned in my idea of breeding, when people only bred to have a pup to bring out.

Well call me old fashioned too, as i totally agree with you!

 

[liza]

The Kennel Club have allowed a golden opportunity to slip by. When they introduced their code of conduct that they expect all breed clubs to adopt, why on earth did they not apply this to their own clubs registration department???? It would instantly stop these people from over breeding, breeders from having two litters at the same time or within a couple of weeks between breeding. They could have stated that anyone breeding more than one litter in any 12 months would not be allowed to register their litter.I know it's draconian, but how can we protect our breed from people who exploit them and breed purely for cash. After all, having to litters at the same time can only be for money.

I can see why you might be concerned about breeders with multiple litters on the ground but I'm struggling to see what's wrong with breeding 2 litters from different bitches in a 12 mth period. I have a friend who this year chose to breed a second litter from her bitch and to breed from her keeper from that bitches first litter. She wasn't breeding for money and has, as intended, kept a pup from each litter. She won't be breeding at all next year, didn't last year, and has only bred these 3 litters in total, so why would her 2 litters this year be reason to disallow registration. She could have chosen to breed once from each bitch in consecutive years and would have bred the same number of puppies in total. Surely it's not how many litters in any given year (within reason) that's the problem, but how many pups overall. Personally I think bitches should be limited to 3 litters max, with at least a year between litters, but that's just my opinion.

I think you misunderstood me, two litters in the nest at the same time, not an ideal situation IMO. Why would any normal thinking person mate two bitches at the same time? I must be old fashioned in my idea of breeding, when people only bred to have a pup to bring out.

Apologies if I have ... and I agree, two litters on the ground together is not ideal :thumbsup:

Annie

hi annie

i dont breed offten yes also i have bred to keep from both of my girls if yoou have read my posts you will see i am keeping three hopefully to show

but you re not complaining about the people who also have two litters on the ground and they have already bred 7 litters in less than a year

 

[nina]

The Kennel Club have allowed a golden opportunity to slip by. When they introduced their code of conduct that they expect all breed clubs to adopt, why on earth did they not apply this to their own clubs registration department???? It would instantly stop these people from over breeding, breeders from having two litters at the same time or within a couple of weeks between breeding. They could have stated that anyone breeding more than one litter in any 12 months would not be allowed to register their litter.I know it's draconian, but how can we protect our breed from people who exploit them and breed purely for cash. After all, having to litters at the same time can only be for money.

I can see why you might be concerned about breeders with multiple litters on the ground but I'm struggling to see what's wrong with breeding 2 litters from different bitches in a 12 mth period. I have a friend who this year chose to breed a second litter from her bitch and to breed from her keeper from that bitches first litter. She wasn't breeding for money and has, as intended, kept a pup from each litter. She won't be breeding at all next year, didn't last year, and has only bred these 3 litters in total, so why would her 2 litters this year be reason to disallow registration. She could have chosen to breed once from each bitch in consecutive years and would have bred the same number of puppies in total. Surely it's not how many litters in any given year (within reason) that's the problem, but how many pups overall. Personally I think bitches should be limited to 3 litters max, with at least a year between litters, but that's just my opinion.

I think you misunderstood me, two litters in the nest at the same time, not an ideal situation IMO. Why would any normal thinking person mate two bitches at the same time? I must be old fashioned in my idea of breeding, when people only bred to have a pup to bring out.

Apologies if I have ... and I agree, two litters on the ground together is not ideal :thumbsup:

Annie

hi annie

i dont breed offten yes also i have bred to keep from both of my girls if yoou have read my posts you will see i am keeping three hopefully to show

but you re not complaining about the people who also have two litters on the ground and they have already bred 7 litters in less than a year

You know its funny listening to how some people can appear to be holier than thou & a lot of folk dont know their past history.

I've got a long memory & i forget NOTHING.

 

[T Hoare]

The Kennel Club have allowed a golden opportunity to slip by. When they introduced their code of conduct that they expect all breed clubs to adopt, why on earth did they not apply this to their own clubs registration department???? It would instantly stop these people from over breeding, breeders from having two litters at the same time or within a couple of weeks between breeding. They could have stated that anyone breeding more than one litter in any 12 months would not be allowed to register their litter.I know it's draconian, but how can we protect our breed from people who exploit them and breed purely for cash. After all, having to litters at the same time can only be for money.

I can see why you might be concerned about breeders with multiple litters on the ground but I'm struggling to see what's wrong with breeding 2 litters from different bitches in a 12 mth period. I have a friend who this year chose to breed a second litter from her bitch and to breed from her keeper from that bitches first litter. She wasn't breeding for money and has, as intended, kept a pup from each litter. She won't be breeding at all next year, didn't last year, and has only bred these 3 litters in total, so why would her 2 litters this year be reason to disallow registration. She could have chosen to breed once from each bitch in consecutive years and would have bred the same number of puppies in total. Surely it's not how many litters in any given year (within reason) that's the problem, but how many pups overall. Personally I think bitches should be limited to 3 litters max, with at least a year between litters, but that's just my opinion.

I think you misunderstood me, two litters in the nest at the same time, not an ideal situation IMO. Why would any normal thinking person mate two bitches at the same time? I must be old fashioned in my idea of breeding, when people only bred to have a pup to bring out.

Apologies if I have ... and I agree, two litters on the ground together is not ideal :thumbsup:

Annie

hi annie

i dont breed offten yes also i have bred to keep from both of my girls if yoou have read my posts you will see i am keeping three hopefully to show

but you re not complaining about the people who also have two litters on the ground and they have already bred 7 litters in less than a year

You know its funny listening to how some people can appear to be holier than thou & a lot of folk dont know their past history.

I've got a long memory & i forget NOTHING.

:thumbsup: Me too, although don't ask me what I did last week :lol:

 

[~Annie~]

The Kennel Club have allowed a golden opportunity to slip by. When they introduced their code of conduct that they expect all breed clubs to adopt, why on earth did they not apply this to their own clubs registration department???? It would instantly stop these people from over breeding, breeders from having two litters at the same time or within a couple of weeks between breeding. They could have stated that anyone breeding more than one litter in any 12 months would not be allowed to register their litter.I know it's draconian, but how can we protect our breed from people who exploit them and breed purely for cash. After all, having to litters at the same time can only be for money.

I can see why you might be concerned about breeders with multiple litters on the ground but I'm struggling to see what's wrong with breeding 2 litters from different bitches in a 12 mth period. I have a friend who this year chose to breed a second litter from her bitch and to breed from her keeper from that bitches first litter. She wasn't breeding for money and has, as intended, kept a pup from each litter. She won't be breeding at all next year, didn't last year, and has only bred these 3 litters in total, so why would her 2 litters this year be reason to disallow registration. She could have chosen to breed once from each bitch in consecutive years and would have bred the same number of puppies in total. Surely it's not how many litters in any given year (within reason) that's the problem, but how many pups overall. Personally I think bitches should be limited to 3 litters max, with at least a year between litters, but that's just my opinion.

I think you misunderstood me, two litters in the nest at the same time, not an ideal situation IMO. Why would any normal thinking person mate two bitches at the same time? I must be old fashioned in my idea of breeding, when people only bred to have a pup to bring out.

Apologies if I have ... and I agree, two litters on the ground together is not ideal :thumbsup:

Annie

hi annie

i dont breed offten yes also i have bred to keep from both of my girls if yoou have read my posts you will see i am keeping three hopefully to show

but you re not complaining about the people who also have two litters on the ground and they have already bred 7 litters in less than a year

You know its funny listening to how some people can appear to be holier than thou & a lot of folk dont know their past history.

I've got a long memory & i forget NOTHING.

:thumbsup: Me too, although don't ask me what I did last week :lol:

You've lost me ladies :blink:

 

[nina]

The Kennel Club have allowed a golden opportunity to slip by. When they introduced their code of conduct that they expect all breed clubs to adopt, why on earth did they not apply this to their own clubs registration department???? It would instantly stop these people from over breeding, breeders from having two litters at the same time or within a couple of weeks between breeding. They could have stated that anyone breeding more than one litter in any 12 months would not be allowed to register their litter.I know it's draconian, but how can we protect our breed from people who exploit them and breed purely for cash. After all, having to litters at the same time can only be for money.

I can see why you might be concerned about breeders with multiple litters on the ground but I'm struggling to see what's wrong with breeding 2 litters from different bitches in a 12 mth period. I have a friend who this year chose to breed a second litter from her bitch and to breed from her keeper from that bitches first litter. She wasn't breeding for money and has, as intended, kept a pup from each litter. She won't be breeding at all next year, didn't last year, and has only bred these 3 litters in total, so why would her 2 litters this year be reason to disallow registration. She could have chosen to breed once from each bitch in consecutive years and would have bred the same number of puppies in total. Surely it's not how many litters in any given year (within reason) that's the problem, but how many pups overall. Personally I think bitches should be limited to 3 litters max, with at least a year between litters, but that's just my opinion.

I think you misunderstood me, two litters in the nest at the same time, not an ideal situation IMO. Why would any normal thinking person mate two bitches at the same time? I must be old fashioned in my idea of breeding, when people only bred to have a pup to bring out.

Apologies if I have ... and I agree, two litters on the ground together is not ideal :thumbsup:

Annie

hi annie

i dont breed offten yes also i have bred to keep from both of my girls if yoou have read my posts you will see i am keeping three hopefully to show

but you re not complaining about the people who also have two litters on the ground and they have already bred 7 litters in less than a year

You know its funny listening to how some people can appear to be holier than thou & a lot of folk dont know their past history.

I've got a long memory & i forget NOTHING.

:thumbsup: Me too, although don't ask me what I did last week :lol:

You've lost me ladies :blink:

Hopefully you are now enlightened :thumbsup:

 

[Wayward_Angel]

Personally I don't care how many litters someone has on the ground at once. It's their ability to care for the pups and find suitable homes for them that counts, together with healthy breeding stock and careful "choices" of each mating, there shouldn't be a problem.....Some breeders shouldn't even raise one litter!!

Some bitches tend to come into season at the same time when you have a few of them in the same household . . . sometimes it's easiest to take all the time off at once and do two litters!!

In saying this I personally haven't had more then 1 litter at a time and don't think I would want more than one, as I find one litter very time consuming... big or small. Last year My 2 girls came in heat at the same time I had planned on mating one of them... (and since some on here have good memories) you will remember my Brother/sister mating (which wasn't the planned one) But this mating took place 2 days before I sent my other bitch away, In no way I was planning on raising the 2 litters at once so I was going to get the unplanned bitch desexed...Long story short the planned bitch went out of season within 3 days after being sent away with no mating... So I decided to let the unplanned litter go ahead... So glad I did too!!!

as a breeder I am prepared to take back any dog I have bred at any age.. keep any pup/s I can't find a home for (still have one from my last litter) Only sell to the best of homes. Don't sell my pups at a high price, same price for pet or show as I have put in the same effort/time/work for each puppy. I don't know how it is o/s but in NZ pig hunters are in a high demand for whippets greyhounds and I do not sell to them.. If I didn't care where my pups went it would be so easy to place pups in homes!!!

And I only breed when I want something for myself!!

This IMO and everyone has a right to their own... 8)