Breeding To Keep.

[ROSIE MEADOWS]

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The point I was making was that Showing alone doesn't make you an expert.

As to registered breeders I would be curious to know how many show people that breed litters are registered. Do you need to be registered if you breed a litter for the show ring? :unsure:

Thanks for the good wishes :cheers:

 

[*Lesley*]

I'm not sure why you are getting a puppy from this litter Rosie if you are unhappy about things :unsure:

Pet homes in my oppinion are the only homes I would let my puppies go to because then if they follow any other persuit and do well at it then it will be a bonus for the owner not an expectatation.

I have 2 show bred girls from top kennels and have no interest in showing nor will have,I don't they have ever suffered because of this

In the same respect I wouldn't buy a pup with conditions of sale on, once a dog is mine it is 100% mine and I will make all decisions for it which are obviously always with the best of intentions, thats just my choice though.

I think if you are unhappy about what the breeder is asking maybe you should think about a puppy from elsewhere :thumbsup:

No-one is an expert because all dogs are different, knowlegable yes, expert no :thumbsup:

 

[ROSIE MEADOWS]

I'm not sure why you are getting a puppy from this litter Rosie if you are unhappy about things :unsure:
Pet homes in my oppinion are the only homes I would let my puppies go to because then if they follow any other persuit and do well at it then it will be a bonus for the owner not an expectatation.

I have 2 show bred girls from top kennels and have no interest in showing nor will have,I don't they have ever suffered because of this

In the same respect I wouldn't buy a pup with conditions of sale on, once a dog is mine it is 100% mine and I will make all decisions for it which are obviously always with the best of intentions, thats just my choice though.

I think if you are unhappy about what the breeder is asking maybe you should think about a puppy from elsewhere :thumbsup:

No-one is an expert because all dogs are different, knowlegable yes, expert no.: :thumbsup

I am very happy with the prospect of a pup from this litter and with the breeder.  She has asked me questions about the normal, making sure everything will be OK for the pup.  I wouldn't have been happy if she hadn't.  The topic was not meant to be specifically about this breeder (in fact she has phoned me and asked me to "keep her out of it") but I was unwise enough to use her as an example.  I am sorry for this :sweating:

I started this topic to see why there was such prejudice against pet owners breeding from their dogs.

Thanks for your comments and I wish all the best for you and your dogs.

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[rubywhip]

Merry Christmas to all and their Whips :cheers:

Not posted on here of late, but this topic drew my attention ! !

My Whippets are firstly and foremostly pets, but I like to show them also, liking the people we meet on our days out,

So when I decide to have my next Litter which Camp should I place myself in ? ? ?

Take Care

Heather and the Khabaray Whippets

 

[*Lesley*]

Merry Christmas to all and their Whips :cheers:

Not posted on here of late, but this topic drew my attention ! !

My Whippets are firstly and foremostly pets, but I like to show them also, liking the people we meet on our days out,

So when I decide to have my next Litter which Camp should I place myself in ? ? ?

Take Care

Heather and the Khabaray Whippets

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Whichever one you are comfortable with I'd say :thumbsup:

 

[kris]

i dont see why there has to be a 'camp' theres good and bad in both show and pet breeders. :thumbsup: being a show person doesnt automatically qualify you as an expert or a good breeder.conversley being a pet breeder breeding purely for the pet market doesnt make you an idiot or a puppy farmer.i think its all to do with intent and care.i do have to say though that if your breeder says they will take the dog back at any time in the future then i personally think shes a rarity for the 'pet breeder' type of person as the rescue centres are full of dogs that have come from pet breeders who dont want to take responsibility for the pups theyre bred for the rest of their lives.i think the vast majority of show and working people will always take a dog back theyve bred.at least youve done your research and are buying from an individual who will always provide a safety net for your dog if ever anything happens and you cant keep him.good luck to you with your new pup :luck:

 

[ROSIE MEADOWS]

i dont see why there has to be a 'camp'

This is the question I was posing. Looking at past posts on here there is a most definite divide. The show people and the others. Happily it doesn't appear that everybody thinks that way. :cheers:

 

[June Jonigk]

I have seen a lot of people posting that they would like to breed from their dogs, as they wish to keep a puppy, and they have been jumped upon and chastised for bring too many dogs into the world.

I have to say that the whippet as I know it is perfect, and therefore saying you are breeding to improve the breed is just an excuse. We all have our own reasons for breeding or wanting our dogs used at stud, and no one should ever diss someone for their reason. As far as I'm concerned, breeding for money is the most mercenary reason, but even then I know those who do it responsibly, although I would never condone it. As long as we all find good caring responsible owners for our pups, I don't think the reason for breeding has anything to do with anyone else.

I bred my first whippet litter in 1988 - my only reason for breeding was that I was totally besotted with my Shalfleet whippet 'Dixie' (who was probably one of those bred to improve the breed, but unfortunately did not turn out to be a good show specimen!), my puppies went to the most wonderful people, who became lifelong friends. I kept a bitch who was show quality until she grew too tall (would have been dwarfed by todays show whippets ), and I bred from her 5 years later, because I loved her and wanted one of her puppies, I fell in love with them all and ended up keeping two!! - the other 5 again went to wonderful homes. Personally I have problems selling to homes who want pups for a particular discipline, as it's anyone's guess on whether they will be suitable, and I would worry that the pup would be discarded if it did not come up to scratch.

I have only ever bred a litter if I want a puppy myself, and firstly and foremostly as a pet. My dogs race now as I have no interest in showing, and strangely enough there doesn't seem to be quite so much snobbery about why people are breeding in racing. All of my dogs whether fast or slow have a home with me for life - it stands to reason that if you are breeding because you want a puppy to keep as a pet - you're less likely to get rid of it. My whippets are my family.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, but it strikes me that the reason a lot of people criticise others for breeding, is more than likely that they are concerned about the market being saturated, and them not being able to sell their own pups

Far too much emphasis is being put on this striving to improve the breed rubbish :rant: Why would anyone think a whippet is only perfect when it has the correct shaped neck, or rose shaped ears etc etc. A whippet has a personality, they are little people - would you get rid of your children if they didn't look just perfect? If you had a child with goofy teeth - would you tell her not to have any children? Can you tell I'm getting slightly heated here :rant:

Please do not criticise other people for breeding if they have a different reason to your own - we all have an opinion, but it should not be shoved down other peoples throats.

Sermon over :- "

 

[trish 9]

I have seen a lot of people posting that they would like to breed from their dogs, as they wish to keep a puppy, and they have been jumped upon and chastised for bring too many dogs into the world. 
I have to say that the whippet as I know it is perfect, and therefore saying you are breeding to improve the breed is just an excuse.  We all have our own reasons for breeding or wanting our dogs used at stud, and no one should ever diss someone for their reason.  As far as I'm concerned, breeding for money is the most mercenary reason, but even then I know those who do it responsibly, although I would never condone it.  As long as we all find good caring responsible owners for our pups, I don't think the reason for breeding has anything to do with anyone else. 

I bred my first whippet litter in 1988 - my only reason for breeding was that I was totally besotted with my Shalfleet whippet 'Dixie' (who was probably one of those bred to improve the breed, but unfortunately did not turn out to be a good show specimen!), my puppies went to the most wonderful people, who became lifelong friends.  I kept a bitch who was show quality until she grew too tall (would have been dwarfed by todays show whippets ), and I bred from her 5 years later, because I loved her and wanted one of her puppies, I fell in love with them all and ended up keeping two!! - the other 5 again went to wonderful homes.  Personally I have problems selling to homes who want pups for a particular discipline, as it's anyone's guess on whether they will be suitable, and I would worry that the pup would be discarded if it did not come up to scratch.

I have only ever bred a litter if I want a puppy myself, and firstly and foremostly as a pet.  My dogs race now as I have no interest in showing, and strangely enough there doesn't seem to be quite so much snobbery about why people are breeding in racing.  All of my dogs whether fast or slow have a home with me for life - it stands to reason that if you are breeding because you want a puppy to keep as a pet - you're less likely to get rid of it.  My whippets are my family.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, but it strikes me that the reason a lot of people criticise others for breeding, is more than likely that they are concerned about the market being saturated, and them not being able to sell their own pups  

Far too much emphasis is being put on this striving to improve the breed rubbish :rant: Why would anyone think a whippet is only perfect when it has the correct shaped neck, or rose shaped ears etc etc.  A whippet has a personality, they are little people - would you get rid of your children if they didn't look just perfect?  If you had a child with goofy teeth - would you tell her not to have any children?  Can you tell I'm getting slightly heated here :rant:  

Please do not criticise other people for breeding if they have a different reason to your own - we all have an opinion, but it should not be shoved down other peoples throats.

Sermon over :- "

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hi everyone i am finding this topic very interesting i am a pet owner with two puppies due any day these are yorkshire terriers my bitch is not kc registered but is an ideal specimen of the breed who was bred with a another ideal specimen kc registerd dog there are a lot of people out there who would love a beautiful pedigee dog for pet homes only but cannot afford kc registered prices iwas asked by many people if i would breed my dog it took me a year to make up my mind and i have more than enough homes offered to these puppies i will not be advertising them and they will not be sold at a high price however there will be a contract stating that the puppies be returned under what ever circumstances back to me if it doesnt work out this the first litter i have bred and i have kept dogs for sixteen years.

 

[AnnSa]

I have seen a lot of people posting that they would like to breed from their dogs, as they wish to keep a puppy, and they have been jumped upon and chastised for bring too many dogs into the world. 
I have to say that the whippet as I know it is perfect, and therefore saying you are breeding to improve the breed is just an excuse.  We all have our own reasons for breeding or wanting our dogs used at stud, and no one should ever diss someone for their reason.  As far as I'm concerned, breeding for money is the most mercenary reason, but even then I know those who do it responsibly, although I would never condone it.  As long as we all find good caring responsible owners for our pups, I don't think the reason for breeding has anything to do with anyone else. 

I bred my first whippet litter in 1988 - my only reason for breeding was that I was totally besotted with my Shalfleet whippet 'Dixie' (who was probably one of those bred to improve the breed, but unfortunately did not turn out to be a good show specimen!), my puppies went to the most wonderful people, who became lifelong friends.  I kept a bitch who was show quality until she grew too tall (would have been dwarfed by todays show whippets ), and I bred from her 5 years later, because I loved her and wanted one of her puppies, I fell in love with them all and ended up keeping two!! - the other 5 again went to wonderful homes.  Personally I have problems selling to homes who want pups for a particular discipline, as it's anyone's guess on whether they will be suitable, and I would worry that the pup would be discarded if it did not come up to scratch.

I have only ever bred a litter if I want a puppy myself, and firstly and foremostly as a pet.  My dogs race now as I have no interest in showing, and strangely enough there doesn't seem to be quite so much snobbery about why people are breeding in racing.  All of my dogs whether fast or slow have a home with me for life - it stands to reason that if you are breeding because you want a puppy to keep as a pet - you're less likely to get rid of it.  My whippets are my family.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, but it strikes me that the reason a lot of people criticise others for breeding, is more than likely that they are concerned about the market being saturated, and them not being able to sell their own pups  

Far too much emphasis is being put on this striving to improve the breed rubbish :rant: Why would anyone think a whippet is only perfect when it has the correct shaped neck, or rose shaped ears etc etc.  A whippet has a personality, they are little people - would you get rid of your children if they didn't look just perfect?  If you had a child with goofy teeth - would you tell her not to have any children?  Can you tell I'm getting slightly heated here :rant:  

Please do not criticise other people for breeding if they have a different reason to your own - we all have an opinion, but it should not be shoved down other peoples throats.

Sermon over :- "

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[SIZE=14pt]A very nice sermon it was too :lol: [/SIZE]

 

Seriously though you have put a lot of my thoughts into words :thumbsup:

 

[kris]

i think we all look at our dogs as the most beautiful/cleverest/best pedigree etc we tend to look at our dogs with rose coloured glasses.i think show and working breeders tend to look at their dogs with a harsher eye(at least i always did!)and can see their dogs so called faults and virtues and so want to try to improve both on the looks and maybe the health of their breed.i think where a lot of the problems start is as someone else said that a lot of people think more is better.so if the breed standard calls for a lot of wrinkle they think well more would be better when patently it wouldnt. moderation in all things should be the watchword.i think a dog who is not exaggerated but is a pleasing overall example of the breed with no exaggerations is a far better prospect than one that has say an average body and movement but a fabulous coat and a superb head.but which would win in the ring?yes if the dog with exaggerated breed points wins then we have to look at the judges and say maybe they arent looking for a pleasing overall picture maybe they are looking for a dog with exaggerated breed type so thats what i should be breeding for?so we then go back to the post that rosie meadows said about what makes us so sure that the type that is winning in the ring is the correct type?is it healthy?can it fulfil the duties it was originally bred for?patently a lot of pedigree dogs arent healthy and cant fulfil the original purpose they were bred for.but what alternative do we have?the kennel club lays down the rules and regulations and the breed standard is ruled to be the blueprint by which a judge must judge the breed.at least with show breeders they have an idea of the blueprint of the breed and want to try to breed closely to it.can the same be said for pet breeders who might have less than a nodding aquaintance with the breed?i think what you have to think about also is what FeeFee said in her original post.when 8,000 dogs are being put to sleep every year you have to ask yourself if you want to breed a litter off topsy cos in YOUR OPINION shes a good example of the breed mightnt it be a better, more socially responsible thing to do NOT to breed from topsy and instead to home a dog that is sitting on death row cos none wants it?theres a saying in rescue circles,'don't breed or buy while healthy dogs die'unfortunately not many people are taking notice of it.im not knocking people who want to breed a litter here im just saying please think seriously about your reasons for doing so and if you cant search your heart and come up with a better reason than I WANT a litter from my bitch,then think of this.THE PUP YOURE SELLING IS TAKING A HOME FROM A DOG THATS GOING TO DIE.its as simple as that.ill sit back now and wait for all the knives in my back! :sweating:

 

[urchin]

No knives Kris, and i really do get the maths but....

most of us on here including the pet owners, have pure breeds. We all could've had rescue dogs, we all know there are thousands out there looking for good homes - but we all have our reasons for getting the dog we did instead.

I wanted whippets - one of mine is pedi the other has a smidge of beddy in him - and I would have got another pure bred whippie if Dij's best mate hadn't needed a home.

There really aren't many rescue whippets to be had (and that is a good thing!) although of course there are many other lovely dogs in rescue centres - But I wasn't looking for a whippet-sized dog, or a whippet-temperament dog ..... had I not got a whippet I would've had no dog at all I think i'm not alone in this, and laudable though the sentiments are, I do not agree that a bought dog is necessarily taking the place of one that's waiting in rescue.

 

[*Lesley*]

I agree Charlie, and hats off to people who rescue :thumbsup: but I too chose to have a whippet, so for that one dog in rescue I have given a home to 4 whippets,

I don't think its fair to put that sort of pressure on people not to breed,most of the people if not all who have bred a litter on here have put a lot of thought into trying to make sure their puppies go to the best forever homes, I'm not sure many of them would have got a rescue, had the litter not been bred :unsure:

 

[T Hoare]

I have not read all of the posts but my dogs are pets first and I happen to enjoy the Hobby of showing them.

I/We(my mother) have a litter of pups when we wish to, my last litter was 3 years ago then previous to that was 2 years(2 litters in 5 years).

There are far too many Whippets being born wether it is from people who Show, Race, Course or who do none of the above.

You can't stop people from breeding, whatever.

 

[T Hoare]

I have just read a little of post 32 by Urchin.

As far as I know it is not Policy of places like Battersea/RSPCA to contact the breed rescue ie Whippet Rescue so there may not be ones in Whippet rescue(Good) but there may be some in other places(Not good).

I think it is ludicrous if breed rescues have people wanting pups they can't be linked.

 

[kris]

im not saying that everyone who keeps a particular breed would have got a rescue dog if they couldnt have that breed.obviously there are people who only like a particular breed to the exclusion of all others.im thinking of mainly pet owners who didnt have any particular breed in mind when they decided they wanted a dog but had maybe looked at a few breeds and decided they like the look of say a shar pei or an irish setter but couldnt get one might be satisfied with a cross breed or another breed that were in rescue centres galore.im not trying to say noone should breed and im not saying that people shouldnt breed unless they are show people.all im saying is id like people to really think about what theyre doing and to plan what theyre doing and maybe if they cant think of a good reason to breed than maybe its not a good idea to do so.until theres no dogs on death row and theres not thousands of dogs dying cos of mans greed and selfishness then perhaps we ought to think is it really neccessary for me to breed another litter? i know im preaching mainly to the converted here in that i ought to be going to the south wales puppy farms and asking them to stop breeding but we all know they wont as its their main source of income.and i suppose if responsible breeders stop breeding then the puppy farmers will just step into the gap and fill it. i dont know whats the answer but it has to start somewhere as if it doesnt then dogs that are healthy happy examples of mans best friend are going to keep on dying.i couldnt work on death row in these rescue centres as to me its an abomination to keep killing healthy dogs just cos theres not enough homes for them.i dont love one breed to the exclusion of all others,i love all dogs,ive had terrier,working and utility breeds.theyre all different and theyre all dogs that ive loved not cos theyre a cetain breed but cos theyre dogs and i just love dogs.big ones,small ones,shaggy ones,smooth ones,long, tall, short, fat or thin, pedigree and mongrels. i hate to think that this year will not see a change, the killing will just go on

 

[T Hoare]

Sorry kris I just have to say that not all puppy farms are in South Wales and not all people who breed in South wales are puppy farms but I think i know what you mean. :thumbsup:

 

[urchin]

iall im saying is  id like people to really think about what theyre doing and to plan what theyre doing and maybe if they cant think of  a good reason to breed than maybe its not  a good idea to do so.

and i agree with you wholeheartedly! :thumbsup:

 

[kris]

Sorry kris I just have to say that not all puppy farms are in South Wales and not all people who breed in South wales are puppy farms but I think i know what you mean.

well obviously not, theyre all over the place but i have to say that south wales is notorious for puppy farming.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/2987490.stm

 

[June Jonigk]

I have seen a lot of people posting that they would like to breed from their dogs, as they wish to keep a puppy, and they have been jumped upon and chastised for bring too many dogs into the world. 
I have to say that the whippet as I know it is perfect, and therefore saying you are breeding to improve the breed is just an excuse.  We all have our own reasons for breeding or wanting our dogs used at stud, and no one should ever diss someone for their reason.  As far as I'm concerned, breeding for money is the most mercenary reason, but even then I know those who do it responsibly, although I would never condone it.  As long as we all find good caring responsible owners for our pups, I don't think the reason for breeding has anything to do with anyone else. 

I bred my first whippet litter in 1988 - my only reason for breeding was that I was totally besotted with my Shalfleet whippet 'Dixie' (who was probably one of those bred to improve the breed, but unfortunately did not turn out to be a good show specimen!), my puppies went to the most wonderful people, who became lifelong friends.  I kept a bitch who was show quality until she grew too tall (would have been dwarfed by todays show whippets ), and I bred from her 5 years later, because I loved her and wanted one of her puppies, I fell in love with them all and ended up keeping two!! - the other 5 again went to wonderful homes.  Personally I have problems selling to homes who want pups for a particular discipline, as it's anyone's guess on whether they will be suitable, and I would worry that the pup would be discarded if it did not come up to scratch.

I have only ever bred a litter if I want a puppy myself, and firstly and foremostly as a pet.  My dogs race now as I have no interest in showing, and strangely enough there doesn't seem to be quite so much snobbery about why people are breeding in racing.  All of my dogs whether fast or slow have a home with me for life - it stands to reason that if you are breeding because you want a puppy to keep as a pet - you're less likely to get rid of it.  My whippets are my family.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, but it strikes me that the reason a lot of people criticise others for breeding, is more than likely that they are concerned about the market being saturated, and them not being able to sell their own pups  

Far too much emphasis is being put on this striving to improve the breed rubbish :rant: Why would anyone think a whippet is only perfect when it has the correct shaped neck, or rose shaped ears etc etc.  A whippet has a personality, they are little people - would you get rid of your children if they didn't look just perfect?  If you had a child with goofy teeth - would you tell her not to have any children?  Can you tell I'm getting slightly heated here :rant:  

Please do not criticise other people for breeding if they have a different reason to your own - we all have an opinion, but it should not be shoved down other peoples throats.

Sermon over :- "

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hi everyone i am finding this topic very interesting i am a pet owner with two puppies due any day these are yorkshire terriers my bitch is not kc registered but is an ideal specimen of the breed who was bred with a another ideal specimen kc registerd dog there are a lot of people out there who would love a beautiful pedigee dog for pet homes only but cannot afford kc registered prices iwas asked by many people if i would breed my dog it took me a year to make up my mind and i have more than enough homes offered to these puppies i will not be advertising them and they will not be sold at a high price however there will be a contract stating that the puppies be returned under what ever circumstances back to me if it doesnt work out this the first litter i have bred and i have kept dogs for sixteen years.

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Sounds pretty good to me :thumbsup: You will have a wonderful experience if you read up as much as possible about the birth etc. Good luck with them :luck: