Breeding To Keep.

[Seraphina]

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The OP asked why some people object people breeding from their pet dogs, and that is what I am trying to explain.

People who state here that their little unregistered pet is the "perfect example of the breed" are in fact the perfect examples why people should not breed without first having deeper understanding of their dogs anatomy. The fact is that there is not such a things as a perfect dog, the winner of BIS at Crufts is not perfect. It takes the knowledge of your dog's faults to give you the ability to find suitable mate. It is also necessary to know where your dog's weaknesses and good points come from = know the 2-3 generations of the dogs' pedigree, and i do not mean to be just able to recite the dogs' names. Correct skeletal structure is not just a thing of a beauty, it is healthy, variations can cause problems. For instance; correct bite is not just somebody's whim, as somebody above suggested. Pups with significantly overshot mouth may not be able to suckle properly, later they may have serious problems with their teeth.

I agree with the person who said that once he/she pays for her dog it is her/his what to do or not with their dog. However it depends on what conditions the breeder sold the dog. When somebody comes to me to buy a puppy I ask them what do they wish to do with it. There may be a puppy in the litter I would like to be shown and possibly bred from, there may be a puppy I, for some reason, would not want to be bred from. My pet pups are sold with limited register papers, under the condition that they are not to be bred from, although I have to admit that if any pet buyer would approach me couple of years later and ask me, I would most likely give them the main register papers, provided I think the bitch is good enough, and they will let me help them to find the right dog for her. I would also help them to place the pups.

 

[Ridgesetter]

Rosie, I wasn’t sure of what you were seeking in your posts so I reread them and have the following comments:

“I started this topic to see why there was such prejudice against pet owners breeding from their dogs.”

With respect, Rosie, this is definitely a two-way street.

“the outcasts from a "show bred"”

“why breed so many show litters. The people that do so are hungry to win”

“sometimes the best interest of the individual is not always paramount”

“a dog is for life (unlike many show animals) and companionship and loving”

You are generalising and appear to be lumping show breeders into one melting pot. Such comments are, in my opinion, inflammatory. :angry: You infer that a pet puppy from a show breeder isn’t as good /loved as much as a puppy from a BYB and that ‘show’ breeders don’t love their dogs unless they win and that we don’t have much loved oldies at home. NOT TRUE!

People always want to put labels to things and in particular, crossbred owners always want to be able to say their dog is from an X and Y yet in reality, those breeds could be very distant in the ancestry of the dog and it could be debated whether they are even present. Whilst it may not have been intentional, you sought acceptability / respectability for your future puppy by pointing out your puppy is from “very well bred dogs (a Dumbriton sire and a Courthill bitch”.

And I'm sure many 'show' breeders have stories of pet owners ringing up with specific criteria - specific colour, sex, markings, age. Do they care about my gorgeous outgoing solid brindle litter puppies? No. They think we can breed puppies to specification. :rant: But that's their choice to seek that.

Choice is a wonderful thing. I don’t like the sport of boxing. It’s legal but I find it barbaric and stupid. A close girlfriend loves it. My choice is not to watch it but I also respect my friend’s choice and I don’t object about her passion for the sport. The same applies to showing and breeding. If you don’t think it’s for you, don’t participate.

“Looking at past posts on here there is a most definite divide”

Is there really? I didn’t interpret that from the posts. But what else can you expect from someone upside down on the other side of the world? :teehee:

“Perhaps fewer "show dogs" should be bred”

On what basis? And why stop with ‘show dogs’? What constitutes a ‘show’ dog – exhibited weekly, monthly or yearly at a club champ show or based on pedigree? And who will make the decision?

I’m sure the UK is no different to us here in Oz. There’s virtually no statistics on the number of pets in the country, not all owners register their pets with their local councils, and certainly no statistics on pet litters – only how many purebred puppies are registered and racing greyhounds with their control board. And looking at the stats, numbers have been steadily declining for purebred puppies yet numbers of abandoned and surrendered dogs are progressively increasing in shelters and pounds. So you tell me, where are they all coming from? :- "

My comments are not meant to be derogatory, attack or inflame this topic but merely seek explanation and post my point of view and to give food for thought – especially my last paragraph.

Cheers

 

[trish 9]

The OP asked why some people object people breeding from their pet dogs, and that is what I am trying to explain.  People who state here that their little unregistered pet is the "perfect example of the breed" are in fact the perfect examples why people should not breed without first having deeper understanding of their dogs anatomy.  The fact is that there is not such a things as a perfect dog, the winner of BIS at Crufts is not perfect.  It takes the knowledge of your dog's faults to give you the ability to find  suitable mate.  It is also necessary to know where your dog's weaknesses and good points come from = know the 2-3 generations of the dogs' pedigree, and i do not mean to be just able to recite the dogs' names.  Correct skeletal structure is not just a thing of a beauty, it is healthy, variations can cause problems.  For instance; correct bite is not just somebody's whim, as somebody above suggested.  Pups with significantly overshot mouth may not be able to suckle properly, later they may have serious problems with their teeth.

I agree with the person who said that once he/she pays for her dog it is her/his what to do or not with their dog.  However it depends on what conditions the breeder sold the dog.  When somebody comes to me to buy a puppy I ask them what do they wish to do with it.  There may be a puppy in the litter I would like to be shown and possibly bred from, there may be a puppy I, for some reason, would not want to be bred from.  My pet pups are sold with limited register papers, under the condition that they are not to be bred from, although I have to admit that if any pet buyer would approach me couple of years later and ask me, I would most likely give them the main register papers, provided I think the bitch is good enough, and they will let me help them to find the right dog for her.  I would also help them to place the pups. 

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if you are refering to me i did not say perfect bitch i said ideal specimen as in excellent temperament good with children right shaped head correct colouring correct scissorbite correct weight height no abnormalities etc i am well aware nothing is perfect dog nor man :angry:

 

[beaker]

when i bred my first (and only)whippet litter i was fairly new to the breed, i'd only done a little bit of competing in some of the whippet diciplines, so could probably be classed as a pet breeder. I didn't have breed mentors to help me, the internet and it's many forums for support or endless wealths of information available to me.

I researched dogs and pedigree's behind mine as best as i could and tried to be as objective as posible when veiwing my own dogs and their good and bad points, i was lucky enough to have the most amazing litter that i wouldn't change one thing about, i was however naive about who would possibly want my "excess"

i thought i'd secured fab homes for my precious pups but got duped by one and have had endless heartache ever since, maybe if i'd had more experience it wouldn't have happened

i've learn't some very hard lessons, but at a dogs cost.

no matter how honourable people think they are, breeding your dogs in most part is a selfish act and unless you are armed with knowledge and experience you are likely to do more harm than good.

so even if i was looking for a purely pet whippet i would rather go to a show,race or coursing breeder for a pup simply because in general they are breeding armed with a wealth of experience behind them, knowledge of their lines and with the future of the breed in mind

 

[Seraphina]

Well said Beaker. Also people who breed KC registered dogs have to be members of KC and so have some rules to uphold. If dogs from one particular breeder would start appearing in pounds, we would all soon know about it - our club rescue has a network of people liaising with pounds and shelters. So far the vast majority of our rescue dogs come from backyard breeders, out of some 50+ last year only 2 came from KC registered breeders.

 

[Seraphina]

Not that i would want to judge breeder whose 1 dog ended in pound. Everybody can get fooled, does not matter how well you screen people you can always get sucked in by somebody who knows the right answers.

Many years ago I had a lovely sounding man to look at my pups. Sounded perfect home, until he mentioned that he plans to have the dog on a chain with running line. :rant:

Next I heard he got a pup from somebody else, the poor breeder was horrified when i told him why i refused to sell this guy a pup. Of-course he knew better than talking about chains when he went to see this next litter. The breeder drove up to this man's property, took the pup of the chain and shoved a cheque in the mail box . The only reason the breeder found out because in show circles people know each other and let each other know useful info. When i bred black Danes, any black/blue appearing in a pound and i knew about. None were mine, but i used to bail them out and rehome them anyway.

 

[Seraphina]

People who state here that their little unregistered pet is the "perfect example of the breed" are in fact the perfect examples why people should not breed without first having deeper understanding of their dogs anatomy.

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if you are refering to me i did not say perfect bitch i said ideal specimen as in excellent temperament good with children right shaped head correct colouring correct scissorbite correct weight height no abnormalities etc i am well aware nothing is perfect dog nor man :angry:

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?????

Oxford Dictionary

IDEAL

i·de·al /aɪˈdiəl, aɪˈdil/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ahy-dee-uhl, ahy-deel] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun

1. a conception of something in its perfection.

2. a standard of perfection or excellence.

3. a person or thing conceived as embodying such a conception or conforming to such a standard, and taken as a model for imitation: Thomas Jefferson was his ideal.

4. an ultimate object or aim of endeavor, esp. one of high or noble character: He refuses to compromise any of his ideals.

5. something that exists only in the imagination: To achieve the ideal is almost hopeless.

6. Mathematics. a subring of a ring, any element of which when multiplied by any element of the ring results in an element of the subring.

–adjective

7. conceived as constituting a standard of perfection or excellence: ideal beauty.

 

[trish 9]

People who state here that their little unregistered pet is the "perfect example of the breed" are in fact the perfect examples why people should not breed without first having deeper understanding of their dogs anatomy.

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if you are refering to me i did not say perfect bitch i said ideal specimen as in excellent temperament good with children right shaped head correct colouring correct scissorbite correct weight height no abnormalities etc i am well aware nothing is perfect dog nor man :angry:

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?????

Oxford Dictionary

IDEAL

i·de·al /aɪˈdiəl, aɪˈdil/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ahy-dee-uhl, ahy-deel] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun

1. a conception of something in its perfection.

2. a standard of perfection or excellence.

3. a person or thing conceived as embodying such a conception or conforming to such a standard, and taken as a model for imitation: Thomas Jefferson was his ideal.

4. an ultimate object or aim of endeavor, esp. one of high or noble character: He refuses to compromise any of his ideals.

5. something that exists only in the imagination: To achieve the ideal is almost hopeless.

6. Mathematics. a subring of a ring, any element of which when multiplied by any element of the ring results in an element of the subring.

–adjective

7. conceived as constituting a standard of perfection or excellence: ideal beauty.

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i dont wish to argue with you this is a friendly forum we all love our dogs and will do the best for them you are entitled to your opion as so am i . As for kc registered dogs i know of a puppy farmer who is a accredited breeder with the kennel club who keeps her whippets out side in small enclosures in all weathers they are not her beloved pets she merely uses them to breed with only please dont critise other people who have the odd pet litter who love their dogs keep them in the warm well fed and part of the family when their are people out their who are suppose to be accredited breeders with the kennel club whose dogs are not as well looked after as ours--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[June Jonigk]

Well said Beaker.    Also people who breed KC registered dogs have to be members of KC and so have some rules to uphold.  If dogs from one particular breeder would start appearing in pounds, we would all soon know about it - our club rescue has a network of people liaising with pounds and shelters.  So far the vast majority of our rescue dogs come from backyard breeders, out of some 50+ last year only 2 came from  KC registered breeders.

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I find your post quite confusing :wacko:

"People who breed registered dogs have to be members of the KC"

Where does this information come from - not true at all :wacko: Any person on the earth can breed a KC registered dog, as long as the pups have two registered parents. If you mean accredited breeders then that's an entirely different matter.

"So far the vast majority of our rescue dogs come from backyard breeders, out of some 50+ last year only 2 came from KC registered breeders".

How on earth could you possibly know - did they turn up with their pedigrees tied round their necks?????? Maybe you mean that only two happened to be tattooed or microchipped?

By the way, what is your definition of a "backyard breeder"?

I am not an accredited breeder, although I do hold an affix. I have no breeding bitches at all now - I did however breed 3 litters from 1988 - 2002 (14 years) I had no interest in showing them - does that make me a "backyard breeder"?

I already mentioned in a previous post that the first bitch I bred from was almost all Shalfleet/Nimrodel breeding, but was not a good show specimen (it mattered not to me) - are you saying that I was wrong to breed from her? There are far more points to consider when breeding from a whippet than show qualities - eg Does she come from a line of easy whelpers? Will she be a good mother? Does she have a good temperament? Is she intelligent - does she learn quickly? These points and many more are much more important to consider than its show attributes. These points are important when you have to live with the dog in the house as part of the family. :huggles:

Answer me this question - if all the top show breeders are striving to improve the whippet, then why are we seeing these oversize heavy boned greyhound types in the ring these days? Nothing to do with selling them abroad eh??

Come on you show breeders - leave the pet person alone - the majority are breeding for love of their dogs - not for monetary gain - there will always be the exception, but don't be so hard - every breeder starts somewhere you know :- "

 

[aslan]

What most show breeders don't like about many pet breeders is this ...

We become involved in showing to have fun competing. We become involved in breeding to improve on the dog we started with and hopefully being able to get some good ones into the ring and to provide beautiful, healthy pets to good homes with the others. We become experienced and knowledgeable breeders by doing our time, learning as much as we can, researching dogs and pedigrees, health issues etc, and spending lots of money in the process - trying to breed the best we can breed; always learning, always trying to improve on what we've got.

It is most annoying when buyers refuse to pay for a showbred pup from such a breeder but will pay a similar price (and in some cases a good deal more) for a pup from someone who has just thrown their pedigree dog and bitch together, with no knowledge about their backgrounds other than they are pedigreed, has not paid a stud fee, has not travelled half way across the country to take the bitch to the dog that best suits her, has not taken any special care with the dietary needs of the bitch whilst she's in whelp, has not had the pups vet checked, has not vaccinated or wormed them etc etc. (I could go on) And I'm not just talking about pet whippet breeders either, I'm talking about the many of the so-called designer dog breeders (those that are jumping on the band wagon), those that breed mongrels and those that breed breeds that don't even exist (eg there is no such breed as a "Mini Foxie" but people here in Australia will pay a good money for such a dog when really they are just "bitsas". (Does the rest of the world use that term for mongrel? Bitsa = bits of this and bits of that). The dogs that owners proudly bellow are "Mini Foxies" do not resemble a Fox Terrier in miniature at all - they look more like overgrown chihuahuas with foxie colouring. I really do have an issue with people making money on litters of the above descriptions whilst show breeders who have put time, thought, effort and money into a litter have trouble finding good homes for their pups.

There was a comment something to the effect of "many of us can't afford to buy a KC registered pup" - it's not just the KC registration that puts the cost on a pedigreed pup from a reputable show breeder - it's all the other things I mentioned. And VERY FEW of us ever do more than break even on a litter. For most of us, the sales do not cover the cost of the litter.

Rosie, I am NOT saying that the person you're buying from is a pet breeder of the type I've described - I'm just saying that this is why many show people are anti backyard breeders in general.

 

[T Hoare]

Labradoodles cost £800+!

What are they Labrador X Poodle & designer dogs.

We have had people not willing to pay a quarter of that for a pedigree, they do not have ours, we don't drop, there is always other avenues.

 

[June Jonigk]

The trouble is Lana that the prices of whippets over here has gone up such a lot over the last few years. I would personally pay anything I could afford to get the dog I wanted, but there are many families with small children around who just cannot afford the prices that the show people are asking, for a dog they want as a pet. Racing bred puppies are a little bit cheaper, but even then, to the average family they cost a great deal.

From the time I met my first whippet at 13 years old I was desperate to own one. I bought my first whippet in 1977 when I had left home at 17 years old, she cost me £10 (I think that was probably half a weeks wages), and although I saw her mother who was an obvious whippet, she had no pedigree. I was told the father was a purebred, but I later doubted it. I lived with a friend in a flat, and we didn't have much money left after paying bills, probably in a similar situation to the average family today. I could never have afforded a show price whippet in those days, although I was desperate to own one. I have always had at least one whippet ever since, but had that pet breeder not been around in those days, I would never have learnt about the pleasure of owning whippets, until much later when I married my rich (not) husband :lol:

Many pet breeders do as much for their prospective litters as show people do, but if they don't have the big names behind them on their pedigree, they probably feel they can't ask as much for them. There's a lot to be said for a complete outcross whippet healthwise, which is more likely to happen in a pet home. I agree with you on the designer dog front though - crossing breeds and calling them pure is really fraudulent.

I just feel the need to stand up for the responsible pet whippet owners who are breeding for love not money, as I did when I bred all three of my litters.

 

[kris]

tbh ive never met a pet breeder yet who screens and checks their stock for health defects.maybe its just the ones ive met but when i see adverts for pet pups for sale from pet bitches i never seem to see hip scores eye tests etc etc. :- " before i bred a litter i had my stud dogs x rayed for hip dysplacia,cervical spondylosis,pra and any other relevant health problems.same with my bitches.i dont know what it cost now but it used to cos me a few hundred pounds for each dog.i vaccinated all my pups before they left me and i never ever let a puppy go before 8 weeks of age.i gave insurance for 6 weeks with each puppy a full diet sheet and set of instructions that laid out everything from why you shouldnt over feed the pup and stick to the diet sheet to why you shouldnt use your male dog at stud if someone asked you could they use him on their bitch.i gave a lifetimes free advice and help i was always at the end of a phone for all my puppy owners and i would always take a pup back not just as a pup but at any age for the rest of the pups life.i had the room,time and money to be able to do so.its ok saying ill always take a pup back but the reality of it is that times change and sometimes you might not be able to take a male dog back if youve got a male stud dog on your premises that hates other males and will fight with them.sometimes if you take a female back it hates the sight of your females, what do you do then?

i havent bred a litter for many years now,i could pick and choose where my pups went to and i did.i personally wouldnt let apup gpo to anyone who worked all day.nowadays most people have to work in order to pay the bills so i dont want to breed as for one thing i dont have waiting lists any more as i havent shown for some time and i couldnt pick and choose like i had the ;luxury of but also and i think this is the most important reason is that theres far too many dogs being bred.with no thought or care of what happens to them or where they go or are the people suitable to have a dog in the first place.when i see cruelty or neglect cases i think some poor breeder sold them that dog (i would be so upset if a dog id bred ever ended up like that)

i personally dont think the price of whippets is particularly expensive. :thumbsup: i see most around the 350-400 mark with non ped racing pups around half of that.in this day and age its not an extortionate amount to pay for a lifetimes love and companionship. a lot of rescues charge 100 plus for a dog so i disagree with this.i think if you take into account that the dog may live 10-15 years its a bargain!less than 30 - 40 quid a year! and think of all the years of joy,love,devotion and happiness that dog will bring in all those years.how many other things can you think of that last so long and give so much pleasure?

 

[Seraphina]

I find your post quite confusing  :wacko:
"People who breed registered dogs have to be members of the KC" 

Where does this information come from - not true at all :wacko:   Any person on the earth can breed a KC registered dog, as long as the pups have two registered parents.  If you mean accredited breeders then that's an entirely different matter.

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Here in Australia you have to be member of the KC to be able to register your prefix (we do not have affix), you have to be financial member to register your litter and both parents have to be registered on the KC Main register, the bitch has to be in the breeder's name. And we have rules and code of conduct.

"So far the vast majority of our rescue dogs come from backyard breeders, out of some 50+ last year only 2 came from  KC registered breeders".
How on earth could you possibly know - did they turn up with their pedigrees tied round their necks??????  Maybe you mean that only two happened to be tattooed or microchipped?

These figures are just for the state of Victoria. The dogs that come through our club rescue service are mostly types that are quite unlike what we see in a show ring. In ant case, after years of experience breeders are able to tell which show lines a particular dog most likely came from. We also have access to records of litter registered with the KC. Microchipping has been compulsory now for couple of years here, so it is not difficult to find out who originally owned a dog. I for instance microchip every pup before i sell it, have done so for years, so if any of my pups would end up in pound, I would know.

 

[aslan]

Many pet breeders do as much for their prospective litters as show people do,
This  I do not doubt, and the lady that Rosie is buying from  is quite possibly one of those.  But there are also MANY (and my guess is many more ) - especially here in Australia - who do not.  We see and hear evidence of this so often.

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[June Jonigk]

I find your post quite confusing  :wacko:
"People who breed registered dogs have to be members of the KC" 

Where does this information come from - not true at all :wacko:    Any person on the earth can breed a KC registered dog, as long as the pups have two registered parents.  If you mean accredited breeders then that's an entirely different matter.

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Here in Australia you have to be member of the KC to be able to register your prefix (we do not have affix), you have to be financial member to register your litter and both parents have to be registered on the KC Main register, the bitch has to be in the breeder's name. And we have rules and code of conduct.

"So far the vast majority of our rescue dogs come from backyard breeders, out of some 50+ last year only 2 came from  KC registered breeders".
How on earth could you possibly know - did they turn up with their pedigrees tied round their necks??????   Maybe you mean that only two happened to be tattooed or microchipped?

These figures are just for the state of Victoria. The dogs that come through our club rescue service are mostly types that are quite unlike what we see in a show ring. In ant case, after years of experience breeders are able to tell which show lines a particular dog most likely came from. We also have access to records of litter registered with the KC. Microchipping has been compulsory now for couple of years here, so it is not difficult to find out who originally owned a dog. I for instance microchip every pup before i sell it, have done so for years, so if any of my pups would end up in pound, I would know.

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Sorry ladies - I was forgetting you are in Australia. Sounds like your KC system is probably more effective than ours over here. Not nearly so many rules here - but I think they will come in time.

 

[Ridgesetter]

I would be very surprised if the price of a whippet was that dissimilar in the UK to what we experience in Australia. Some breeders charge more than others. Shop around but prices are often dictated by what prospective owners are prepared to pay. :- "

I have never charged as much as some other breeders and have a policy of the one price regardless of whether the pup is for a show home or a family pet. In fact, I’ve given free a couple to show homes and I know of other breeders who have given show dogs for free. :thumbsup:

My concern with a prospective owner who says they can't afford the price of the a dog, how then can they afford the upkeep, maintenance and any unforeseen veterinary bills?

The original thread to this post was pet vs show breeders and I really believe that any stigma is in the minority and to be honest, I’ve read more pet breeders negative about show breeders than the other way around. :unsure:

Something in favour of the show breeders in Oz is they network and in my experience, whenever there’s a dog needing rescuing or rehoming, it’s the clubs and registered show breeders who are contacted. In my experience, when an owner no longer wants a dog for whatever reason (divorce, moving, health, etc.) they contact the Club as they feel embarrassed to contact the breeder or have lost their details. So it is the Club and its members who take on the responsibilty of these dogs and rehome them. Our Rescue Co-ordinator had over 20 whippets from one pet breeder about 3 years ago and one of the girls was 8½ wks pregnant! The owners’ family didn’t want the dogs so it was the Club that got the call and show breeders who helped house, whelp, feed and transport the dogs around the country to their new homes. Whilst a pet breeder might have every good intention, they aren’t in the ‘loop’ and easily identifiable and contactable when such occurrences arise.

I’m sure we all agree that there is good and bad in all things. There are certainly show breeders who I have no respect for just as I am appalled at some of the pet breeding I have come across, but the trick is not to generalise.

Judging by the number of hits for this thread, it's definitely interesting to many. :cheers:

 

[trish 9]

I would be very surprised if the price of a whippet was that dissimilar in the UK to what we experience in Australia.  Some breeders charge more than others.  Shop around but prices are often dictated by what prospective owners are prepared to pay.  :- "
I have never charged as much as some other breeders and have a policy of the one price regardless of whether the pup is for a show home or a family pet.  In fact, I’ve given free a couple to show homes and I know of other breeders who have given show dogs for free.      :thumbsup:

My concern with a prospective owner who says they can't afford the price of the a dog, how then can they afford the upkeep, maintenance and any unforeseen veterinary bills? 

The original thread to this post was pet vs show breeders and I really believe that any stigma is in the minority and to be honest, I’ve read more pet breeders negative about show breeders than the other way around.  :unsure:

Something in favour of the show breeders in Oz is they network and in my experience, whenever there’s a dog needing rescuing or rehoming, it’s the clubs and registered show breeders who are contacted.  In my experience, when an owner no longer wants a dog for whatever reason (divorce, moving, health, etc.) they contact the Club as they feel embarrassed to contact the breeder or have lost their details.  So it is the Club and its members who take on the responsibilty of these dogs and rehome them. Our Rescue Co-ordinator had over 20 whippets from one pet breeder about 3 years ago and one of the girls was 8½ wks pregnant!  The owners’ family didn’t want the dogs so it was the Club that got the call and show breeders who helped house, whelp, feed and transport the dogs around the country to their new homes.  Whilst a pet breeder might have every good intention, they aren’t in the ‘loop’ and easily identifiable and contactable when such occurrences arise. 

I’m sure we all agree that there is good and bad in all things.  There are certainly show breeders who I have no respect for just as I am appalled at some of the pet breeding I have come across, but the trick is not to generalise. 

Judging by the number of hits for this thread, it's definitely interesting to many.  :cheers:

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Someone mentioned earlier on this thread that if people can not afford a kc dog then how can afford to pay for vet fees well the people i was reffering to would most likely be on some kind of benefits which would entitle them to pdsa vet care to which they would give a voluntary contribution of what they could reasonably afford there are also neutering schemes available at reduced cost and micro chipping schemes also so the fact they wouldnt be able to care properly for their pets is not strictly true in fact they could afford them better than most of us who pay through nose for our vet care :thumbsup:

 

[wild whippies]

The way I look at it, if your going to make a business out of breeding dogs, it's far more lucrative to use KC registered dogs. The discrepancy between a KC registered whippet and a non KC can be between £200-300. I'm not familiar with the current prices for registration but I expect it's below £50 so there's an excellent profit margin here. The only other overhead I can see is stud fees but even at £300 a pop, the amount is minimal when distributed between the litter produced. However, I imagine the more frugal puppy farmer would invest in a KC dog for stud duties thus increasing their profit margins.

Any litter of pups runs a risk of expenses but there's a greater chance of recouping your losses with KC registered puppies furthermore, a breed such as the whippet is quite an attraction due to it's relatively low incidence of health issues.

So taking these factors into consideration, when it comes to breeding for financial gain, it's far more attractive to use KC registered dogs. The problem for those who are not breeding for financial gain is there is no identifying factors in place that differentiate you from puppy farmers. Personally, I hold the Kennel Club to blame for not instigating a more stringent form of legislation to their registrations but I also feel that reputable breeders themselves should be ensuring their offspring don't leave their premises without breeding restrictions being enforced on them.

I do have to say there's a lot to be said for breeding for purpose. Non-ped racing whippets are certainly not over bred in my eyes with the most desirable puppies coming from older dams and sires who've prooved their worth on the dog track. Many people will have pups reserved well in advance (me being one of those currently)

The pups will have excellent characters (non-peds have a remarkable bond for their owners as a lot run to them in raceing and obviously the most devoted, try their hardest to win) The more aggresive usually highlight their issues in training with other dogs due to tackling and if they can't curb this then of course they will never see a dog track. Health issues are very low with the only recurrant anamoly being cryptorchidism, interestingly something that is not a concern to the non-ped breeder but is to the pedigree KC whippet yet both show incidences of it regardless.

It's also interesting on here that when a pedigree whippet ends up in rescue, no-one seems to jump up and recognise the breeding. However the rare times I've seen a non-ped racer end up in rescue on here there's been many who have identified the dog's breeding and racers as a whole have took a vested interest in the re-homing of the dog concerned.

So will there ever be puppy farming in the non-ped world? I seriously doubt it, if the dog doesn't fit the purpose it won't be bred from and there won't be the market for it. Furthermore the racers themselves are quite a feisty bunch who will shoot you down, openly and publicly if they feel your out of order, probably because it is such a small circle of individuals involved in raceing.

There is an interesting irony in that a governing body was developed to regulate breeds of dogs and yet all it seems to have achieved is an ability to generate money and even create detriment to some breeds through warped perceptions of the breed standards they alone created.

Wheras a totally unregulated breed has carried on breeding to it's own standard with only one purpose in mind and it has remained physically unchanged, slightly improved (speed wise) and still has a healthy physical profile.

Jac