Breeding

[Strike Whippets]

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Should we as Whippet lovers be repeating matings of litters that produce dogs with only 1 testical ??? and even worse than that matings that have also produced a dog with BOTH testicals retained ??? and we repeat them ....WHY??........I gather theres going to be a new rule brought into place by the Whippet Club and backed by the WCRA stopping this type of mating (ie using a cryptorchid stud dog) ......not that I can say much, though ALL 6 of my boys have 2 (more luck than judgement I know) .......but then I guess if you put breeding etc ....into prespective I think the lines be it show, racing or working with the Auto Immune problems should be sorted first, as 1 - no testicals never killed anyone ......its been quiet on here for a while :teehee: .....so what are your lots views ???

 

[»Tina«]

Hannah, I agree with you that AI conditions are loads more serious than crypto, but to know that your repeat mating a dog and bitch that HAS produced dogs with 1 or no balls is totally disgusting IMHO! :angry:

and also what would that achieve in the long run? (nothing but bad comeback for the breeder, and a bad reputation!!), plus the dog some time in the future WILL have to have them removed, which is not always straight forward,

no showing of the dogs, no breeding as dogs with both retained are sterile, and I have heard that they don't race as well too (due to being uncomfortable and having lower testosterone, not 100% on this though)

so they will be classed as just pets, and it would be very devious if the breeder didn't mention this to the new owners too, and if they failed to mention this, it will one day land them in very hot water in a court of law!

so my view is NOT to repeat mate 2 dogs that have already produced this condition!! NO WAY :rant:

 

[kris]

hmmmmm.i think this is more complicated than just a blanket ban on using a dog with retained testicle/s.are you saying a dog thats produced pups with retained testicles or using a dog that has retained testicles?i also think theres worse problems than this.i mean if youre going to ban a dog that has produced a pup with retained testicles,first of all how do you know it doesnt come from the dams side and what about other faults?what about the highly strung nervous individual thats hell to live with but is a showing fool?wouldnt it be irresponsible to produce pups that are highly strung,nervy individuals and potential fear biters?what about any other faults?at that rate wed never be able to use any dog at stud! :- "

 

[Vicky]

I duno how i feel about this.

Ella produced out of a litter of 5, 1 dog with 1 retained (which i kept), i will almost certainly breed from her again, all the others left me with 2 and we spoke about the various possibilities (i also checked the pups whenever i saw them - serial bollock / dew claw checker!! lol) . The stud dog i used had two, his litter mates all had two but on Ella's side there's a few dogs with none / one.

To sell a dog which you KNOW only has the one is just plain wrong, especially if you don't tell the owner the implications.

Cutting out stud dogs which produce mon/crypto offspring would seriously decrease the gene pool which could then have other implications.

I think it all depends how you go about it as a breeder.

 

[»Tina«]

hmmmmm.i think this is more complicated than just a blanket ban on using a dog with retained testicle/s.are you saying a dog thats produced pups with retained testicles or using a dog that has retained testicles?i also think theres worse problems than this.i mean if youre going to ban a dog that has produced a pup with retained testicles,first of all how do you know it doesnt come from the dams side and what about other faults?what about the highly strung nervous individual thats hell to live with but is a showing fool?wouldnt it be irresponsible to produce pups that are highly strung,nervy individuals and potential fear biters?what about any other faults?at that rate wed never be able to use any dog at stud! :- "

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you can't use a dog with both testies retained they are sterile, and to knowingly re-mate they SAME 2 dogs that have produced pups with mono/crypto in the past is WRONG!

and I thought all whippets were highly strung/nervy dogs, or is that just Binx (w00t) he'd never bite though! (I hope)!

''To sell a dog which you KNOW only has the one is just plain wrong, especially if you don't tell the owner the implications.'' very good point Vicky :thumbsup:

 

[IanGerman]

and here comes Judy's input - she has a thing about bollocks! :- "

 

[Judy]

You mean the fact that you once boasted of having 3 Ian :lol: and I always thought you were joking

Knowing how this subject can get can I remind everyone to stick to the subject which is the breeding principle not particular breeders or stud dog owners - ie. don't make it personal. Not that you were going to of course

 

[Strike Whippets]

I've used a crypto dog as I wanted that line and he was the only dog I could use to get it ........I do think if the new ruling is brought in, it'll close down too many lines and make our gene pool much to small ........as I said the AI dogs should be sorted out first ......

 

[~whitecross whippets~]

as many have read on my thread...my little monty has 2 retained testicles....one in his groin and one in his abdomen....he is sterile and will be castrated on thursday :luck:

i bought him as a pet....the breeders i bought him from knew he was neither going to be shown or bred from...he was sold to me a a pet.....and knew that he was always going to be neutered....

they have also offered me a full refund along with vaccination costs etc.... if i wanted to return him.....

i have been offered much support .... even offering for us to take him to their vets and get a second opinion if i was at all worried by my vets decision ......

i of course love monty no matter what and he will always be my gorgeous baby with or without balls....lol :wub:

however i do not feel i know enough about genetics or breeding to comment in general on the subject but just wanted to say that i was happy with my dog and the people who bred him..... i personally do not think they could have done any more than they have to help ....

everyones situation is different of course.... this is just my personal story and i am not looking for an arguement with anyone... :thumbsup:

 

[Chien]

I'm no expert, but tend to agree that AI is a more important issue to be addressed first - would be interesting to know how it affects racing potential with retained testicle(s), ie speed, enthusiasm etc. I know from a show breeders point of view they are aiming for -but don't necessarily get -- perfection, so retained testes dogs would not be used for breeding - :thumbsup: interesting topic,look forward to reading other peopl's views/opinions :thumbsup:

 

[»Tina«]

as many have read on my thread...my little monty has 2 retained testicles....one in his groin and one in his abdomen....he is sterile and will be castrated on thursday :luck:
i bought him as a pet....the breeders i bought him from knew he was neither going to be shown or bred from...he was sold to me a a pet.....and knew that he was always going to be neutered....

they have also offered me a full refund along with vaccination costs etc.... if i wanted to return him.....

i have been offered much support .... even offering for us to take him to their vets and get a second opinion if i was at all worried by my vets decision ...... 

i of course love monty no matter what and he will always be my gorgeous baby with or without balls....lol  :wub:

however i do not feel i know enough about genetics or breeding to comment in general on the subject but just wanted to say that i was happy with my dog and the people who bred him..... i personally do not think they could have done any more than they have to help  ....

everyones situation is different of course.... this is just my personal story and i am not looking for an arguement with anyone... :thumbsup:

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really? aint you the lucky one :thumbsup:

 

[~elizabeth~]

I'm no expert, but tend to agree that AI is a more important issue to be addressed first

I think there might be a long wait for that. Medicine is no nearer to finding out what causes autoimmune problems in humans (and is infact studying dogs, as they are quiet similar to humans in their susceptibility to these diseases; the thought is the genes involved may be in those genes that are common to both species, but still this will only result in a smaller haystack to search :wacko: ).

There is no doubt in humans that there is a genetic component, and that reducing the genepool seems to increase the percentage of individuals with the problem (more common in isolated rural populations), but the pattern of inheritance is not clear, especially as it may involve quite a number of genes.

Also, genetic problems are inherited from BOTH parents, unless they are simple, autosomal dominant diseases (which neither AI and cryptorchidism are).

 

[Strike Whippets]

I'm no expert, but tend to agree that AI is a more important issue to be addressed first - would be interesting to know how it affects racing potential with retained testicle(s), ie speed, enthusiasm etc. I know from a show breeders point of view they are aiming for -but don't necessarily get -- perfection, so retained testes dogs would not be used for breeding -  :thumbsup: interesting topic,look forward to reading other peopl's views/opinions :thumbsup:

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Yes AI is much more important, though I can see the views of others on here :thumbsup: .......I told all of the new owners of my pups with the crypto dad that a) their dad was crypto so b) keep an eye on them as they grow older ( now we have a few of the boys with issues due to having been checked so often ) .......

As for

would be interesting to know how it affects racing potential with retained testicle(s), ie speed, enthusiasm etc.

I've had 1 whos now been done due to problems with his retained testical, and its had no effect on his performance or enthusiasm at all (hes still a nutter lol) ...........Yet my other 1 with a retained tesical is ok at the mo (touching wood as we speak) .........and my 1 from the crypto dad has 2 perfect testicals, just unfortunatly he lacks brains lol .......

 

[Vicky]

1 from the crypto dad has 2 perfect testicals, just unfortunatly he lacks brains lol .......

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PMSL all balls and no brains (w00t)

 

[Strike Whippets]

1 from the crypto dad has 2 perfect testicals, just unfortunatly he lacks brains lol .......

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PMSL all balls and no brains (w00t)

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LOL ....Now that just shows you hes male :lol:

 

[Vicky]

1 from the crypto dad has 2 perfect testicals, just unfortunatly he lacks brains lol .......

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PMSL all balls and no brains (w00t)

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LOL ....Now that just shows you hes male :lol:

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Actually i think my theory is right. My boy with only half his tackle is normal, the other with full blown crown jewels is a complete and utter dickhead. :wacko: :- "

 

[Strike Whippets]

1 from the crypto dad has 2 perfect testicals, just unfortunatly he lacks brains lol .......

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PMSL all balls and no brains (w00t)

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LOL ....Now that just shows you hes male :lol:

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Actually i think my theory is right. My boy with only half his tackle is normal, the other with full blown crown jewels is a complete and utter dickhead. :wacko: :- "

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Yes spot on ........My to 1/2 boys are fab (but then they are Black aswell, so I guess this makes them EVEN more perfect :wub: ) .......Yet my parti 2 balls is the badest Whippet that i've ever owned (w00t)

 

[wild whippies]

ROFLMAO!! What are you two like?!! :lol: Actually me and Vicky are fascinated with Dobby's balls :b THEY'RE HUGE!! (w00t) They sort of have the same kind of hypnotic effect that female joggers have on men!

 

[June Jonigk]

I can see why there is concern about AI disorders, but I haven't heard of any AI dogs being used willy nilly at stud :blink:

I may not be popular for saying so, but our breed needs to be protected - and there are far more cryptorchid dogs around now than there ever were (in ped racing anyway). I believe a rule which prevents puppies sired by cryptorchids from getting a passport to race was being considered by the WCRA, and I have to say I think it's a good idea. I also heard that it might have been thrown out due to problems with the human rights act - pardon the pun, but bollocks! If you can prevent a whippet over 21" in height from getting a passport, I'm sure you can regulate pups bred from cryptorchids. :- "

For the WCRA to be worried about it, they must think there is a good reason to look into it.

 

[»Tina«]

I can see why there is concern about AI disorders, but I haven't heard of any AI dogs being used willy nilly at stud :blink:
I may not be popular for saying so, but our breed needs to be protected - and there are far more cryptorchid dogs around now than there ever were (in ped racing anyway).  I believe a rule which prevents puppies sired by cryptorchids from getting a passport to race was being considered by the WCRA, and I have to say I think it's a good idea.  I also heard that it might have been thrown out due to problems with the human rights act - pardon the pun, but bollocks!    If you can prevent a whippet over 21" in height from getting a passport, I'm sure you can regulate pups bred from cryptorchids. :- " 

For the WCRA to be worried about it, they must think there is a good reason to look into it.

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I agree, but why just the males? females carry this condition too, is there a test at the vets you could use to detect this?