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I do agree with what you are saying, but there are more pressing issues to be addressed IMHO .......You close down some of these crypto lines, and that line will be lost = a smaller gene pool at a fast rate ......The majority of racers hate going out to coursing or god forbid a showline to increase this dwindling gene pool (and the few that do can't sell their pups to racing folk as they are too high risk to be WCRCh's :- " ), as they like breeding for speed (and yes I do know this is the basis of breeding racing Whippets :lol: ) but if we don't breed some more complete out crosses .....I just hate to think where our beloved breed will end up ......I've heard this issue has nothing to do with human rights, so it could well go ahead after all (but who knows) .......

I can see why there is concern about AI disorders, but I haven't heard of any AI dogs being used willy nilly at stud blink.gif

I have :thumbsup:
 
wild whippies said:
ROFLMAO!! What are you two like?!! :lol: Actually me and Vicky are fascinated with Dobby's balls  :b   THEY'RE HUGE!! (w00t) They sort of have the same kind of hypnotic effect that female joggers have on men!


LOL ...... :lol: .....and you've posted that statement for all to read PMSL .....Nutters :lol:
 
Hi Tina

I think the WCRA's idea of preventing pups from cryptorchids obtaining passports applied to the bitches too - that's why I think it's a good idea. It would stop people from using cryptorchids, but wouldn't prevent cryptorchids from racing - that wouldn't be fair.

I can see someone wanting to use a cryptorchid if say it was the last of a breeding line, but we do need to do something to prevent people who don't realise the consequences of the problems they are breeding on, and indeed into the whippet as a breed.
 
June Jonigk said:
Hi TinaI think the WCRA's idea of preventing pups from cryptorchids obtaining passports applied to the bitches too - that's why I think it's a good idea.  It would stop people from using cryptorchids, but wouldn't prevent cryptorchids from racing - that wouldn't be fair.

I can see someone wanting to use a cryptorchid if say it was the last of a breeding line, but we do need to do something to prevent people who don't realise the consequences of the problems they are breeding on, and indeed into the whippet as a breed.

yes that's very sensible, I'd go along with that :thumbsup: so would you agree with a repeat mating of 2 dogs that had knowingly produced crypto and 2 retained testicals pups in the first litter? to me I don't feel that's right.
 
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Well its not right .......As soon as you start producing dogs with 2 retained testicals, then really thats the end of that line, plus if they are sterile they will be unable to reproduce :) .......I had a chat with someone befor the WCRA started the ball rolling on this subject, and I did say that the bitches should also be unable to be bred from if even 1 brother had 1 retained testical as they WILL carry this gene on ......(hmmm there really wouldn't be many lines to choose from then :- " ) ........
 
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Strike Whippets said:
Well its not right .......As soon as you start producing dogs with 2 retained testicals, then really thats the end of that line, plus if they are sterile they will be unable to reproduce  :) .......I had a chat with someone befor the WCRA started the ball rolling on this subject, and I did say that the bitches should also be unable to be bred from if even 1 brother had 1 retained testical as they WILL carry this gene on ......(hmmm there really wouldn't be many lines to choose from then  :- " ) ........
yes I agree, no repeat mating should be done if a pup is born with 2 retained testicals, the whole purpose (for me) is to improve on the breed, I bred Chance because she's everything I wanted in a dog but I wanted the whippet size, so the only way to improve on Chance (she's perfect otherwise) was to shorten her down a bit, therefore I bred her to a pure whippet which complimented her in so many other ways too, I have my perfect dog from this mating Lexi!

to knowingly breed again from 2 dogs, which has produced dogs with no testicals is very WRONG! :angry:
 
I've read this thread and it all seems interesting but quite irritating for me. I wish to breed my young bitch next year and I was looking forward to doing so as I love puppies but would not want them all of the time. I'm looking forward to producing a dog that would be faster than my old boy especially as he only has one more season to run before he joins the veterans. Now the bitch is out of Pipedream and Sunshine. Pipedream is about 90% Show breeding and Sunshine is about 95% racing.( percentages are only approximate guesses) Now i want to go to something that comes out of the traps like grease lightening and doesn't stop until it gets captured at the other end by it's owner. I want a dog that is exceptionally brave, runs true and has a nice disposition.....tall order. I would hate to think none of my pups could run at races so i'm looking very carefully at who I choose. I have approached an owner of a wonderful dog but thats my business only and isn't up for discussion but I must add this dog is entire....All of Pipedreams dog puppies have been entire. So hopefully all of Twist of Fates will be too. How far back into the generations is this going? Pipedream although she is a good and loving dog she just wasn't fast enough and I feel that is because she has a lot of show blood in her. Despite her background she gives her all,all of the time and i for one love her for the dog she is. I believe that her determination and bravery comes from her show background as she has to try harder to get there. Show dogs have their good points and shouldn't be dismissed but for the job I want i'm looking at a racing dog.

With all of this talk of breeding dogs for specific jobs to run around a flat track with distances of 150 yrds straight to 240 yrds bend don't we think that if made more events with different abilities to test our dogs, we would be looking for more of a varied animal with more brains and then we would vary our breeding more to meet this. We only look for a fast dog and nothing else. We are going down the same line as showing were beauty is more important than personality.

We are now at a crossroads in racing and maybe instead of just looking at breeding we should also be looking at improving the dogs abilities.

I have now removed my head from the parapet so you can shoot without damage to my person :- "
 
I never bred speed to speed in my first litter, and oh how we got laughed at :eek: .......Though I did line breed to a line that has fast disapeared :( .........I loved my 2 from this 1st mating so much, that I'd asked the stud dog owner if I could repeat this mating again .....WHY I hear you all cry, but if you could see what great dogs Eric and Connie are to live with, you'd all understand .....Oh and they were text book easy dogs to get racing :D ......and aswell as this they are both fast, I just spoilt them by running them at Cotswolds week in and week out (oh the joys of running a club) .....plus they've both had their fare share of "dodgy dogs" to run with :(

With all of this talk of breeding dogs for specific jobs to run around a flat track with distances of 150 yrds straight to 240 yrds bend don't we think that if made more events with different abilities to test our dogs, we would be looking for more of a varied animal with more brains and then we would vary our breeding more to meet this. We only look for a fast dog and nothing else. We are going down the same line as showing were beauty is more important than personality.


I agree 100% .......Our breed is capable of more than a short distance race :- " .....but as I said most racers are too scared to out cross and when they do people don't want their pups ........My Inca's dodgy though shes an out cross (much prefers live stuff) .....Yet her first litter is much better than her and touch wood when we breed on the next gen from her they'll be sounder again :D (we'll fingers crossed anyway .....we'll see :sweating: (w00t) ;) ) .......but at least they'll be Black ...perfect LOL ......
 
WHAT LINES OF SHOWING,I.E PERCENTAGE

WHAT IS RACING LINE?

MY DOGS HAVE A LITTLE SHOW BREEDING IN THEM ABOUT 25% AND THE OTHER 15%
 
>Our breed is capable of more than a short distance race .....but as I said most racers are too scared to out cross and when they do people don't want their pups ........

I own and race dogs. I own and race show/coursing bred dogs and ain't they slow and also racing breds and have been lucky to have owned two fast ones.

To be brutally honest it's hard to race really slow dogs. It's hard to clear show dogs because how the hell do you find a dog slow enough for them to pass (unless it's one of your own). How do you train them so that they don't become despondant and stop when all / most of the other dogs out there are soooo much faster. Woody decided to stop very quickly after clearing for racing (we found a tiny 10 year old racing bred bitch for him to pass once for a clearing trial) but after that all he saw on coming out of the traps was the other dogs backsides disappearing into the distance. Because not only was he slow he was also heavy and he was run off the back. After that it took us a couple of years of lure coursing and trialling with our other show bred dog (off our handicap) to get Woody so that he'd finish a race and NOT simply turn back and wait for the next race to run.

To add to the problem of racing show bred dogs they are mostly heavy so are run off the back of much faster dogs or they are too heavy to race at all.

Many's the time that Alan and I have helped out during racing and then whilst all the racers are having their lunch we are out on the track giving our show breds a run against each other. Because that was the ONLY fair way that we could handicap our dogs in terms of their ability and the clubs weren't going to do that to help us.

Until ALL clubs start to handicap based on ability and NOT on speed then what person in their right minds is going to risk buying in a potentially really slow dog (male) to race it.

So now that I'm buying in solely for racing too damn right I'm going to buy a racing bred and NOT a dog that is going to start at the back and trundle along week in week out with the other dogs getting further and further away from it until in the end it simply gives up. To watch your dog giving up on the track week in week out is pointless. The dog isn't enjoying itself that's for sure or it wouldn't be giving up. It's bad enough with a fast racing bred but at least then you have some hope but with a slow show bred who can't keep up anyway and who is stopping because it knows that it's useless for it to keep trying. You go away and do summat else with it that it will enjoy.

I appreciate that there is the odd club like South Cotswolds who really, really try their best to give non racing bred dogs a fair go but they are in the minority IMO and I have raced my dogs at a lot of clubs. :thumbsup:
 
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Until ALL clubs start to handicap based on ability and NOT on speed then what person in their right minds is going to risk buying in a potentially really slow dog (male) to race it.
As a member of a club that does time handicapping (with advance and retard) I feel Barb is spot on here. Not only could this potentially widen your gene pool, I think it would increase your club members, encourage and retain newcomers and give the dogs a better sense of well being (I don't think it's just owners that loose heart if they loose every week)

The other matter is you need these slower dogs in your clubs to help train your youngsters, I actually feel quite proud that because my peds have always been perfect dogs for training others, they've enabled all our clubs' non-ped whippets be cleared for racing. TBH if the club didn't have the format that it does I would have given up the whole idea of racing. :- "
 
BeeJay said:
>Our breed is capable of more than a short distance race  .....but as I said most racers are too scared to out cross and when they do people don't want their pups ........
I own and race dogs.  I own and race show/coursing bred dogs and ain't they slow and also racing breds and have been lucky to have owned two fast ones. 

To be brutally honest it's hard to race really slow dogs.  It's hard to clear show dogs because how the hell do you find a dog slow enough for them to pass (unless it's one of your own).  How do you train them so that they don't become despondant and stop when all / most of the other dogs out there are soooo much faster.  Woody decided to stop very quickly after clearing for racing (we found a tiny 10 year old racing bred bitch for him to pass once for a clearing trial) but after that all he saw on coming out of the traps was the other dogs backsides disappearing into the distance.  Because not only was he slow he was also heavy and he was run off the back.  After that it took us a couple of years of lure coursing and trialling with our other show bred dog (off our handicap) to get Woody so that he'd finish a race and NOT simply turn back and wait for the next race to run. 

To add to the problem of racing show bred dogs they are mostly heavy so are run off the back of much faster dogs or they are too heavy to race at all.

Many's the time that Alan and I have helped out during racing and then whilst all the racers are having their lunch we are out on the track giving our show breds a run against each other.  Because that was the ONLY fair way that we could handicap our dogs in terms of their ability and the clubs weren't going to do that to help us. 

Until ALL clubs start to handicap based on ability and NOT on speed then what person in their right minds is going to risk buying in a potentially really slow dog (male) to race it.   

So now that I'm buying in solely for racing too damn right I'm going to buy a racing bred and NOT a dog that is going to start at the back and trundle along week in week out with the other dogs getting further and further away from it until in the end it simply gives up.  To watch your dog giving up on the track week in week out is pointless.  The dog isn't enjoying itself that's for sure or it wouldn't be giving up.  It's bad enough with a fast racing bred but at least then you have some hope but with a slow show bred who can't keep up anyway and who is stopping because it knows that it's useless for it to keep trying.  You go away and do summat else with it that it will enjoy. 

I appreciate that there is the odd club like South Cotswolds who really, really try their best to give non racing bred dogs a fair go but they are in the minority IMO and I have raced my dogs at a lot of clubs.  :thumbsup:

I agree with what you are saying about clubs Barbara(can't coment on the breeding bit I know bugger all about it :unsure: ) but having two show bred dogs and a faster dog I think handicaps are very important thats why we run that way at the Lancs,we have more non race bred dogs there than race bred,Spry being coursing bred, even though she is at the back most of the time she can hold her own, but it means Callie and Sienna have a chance of catching the lure first aswell, I am always extra chuffed when they win or come close because I know the effort they put into it and granted they may be slower than pure bred racers but still deserve the chance to get the reward. :)

We are lucky that Spry has some speed because it is a bonus for us being keen on racing but it is just as important for us to see Callie,Sienna and Kane enjoy it aswell, if I ever bred Spry a dog with some speed will be a factor because of what we do but there will be a lot of other things to consider too :thumbsup: (one of those would be will I be able to part with any of the puppies :- " :lol: )
 
wild whippies said:
Until ALL clubs start to handicap based on ability and NOT on speed then what person in their right minds is going to risk buying in a potentially really slow dog (male) to race it.
As a member of a club that does time handicapping (with advance and retard) I feel Barb is spot on here. Not only could this potentially widen your gene pool, I think it would increase your club members, encourage and retain newcomers and give the dogs a better sense of well being (I don't think it's just owners that loose heart if they loose every week)

The other matter is you need these slower dogs in your clubs to help train your youngsters, I actually feel quite proud that because my peds have always been perfect dogs for training others, they've enabled all our clubs' non-ped whippets be cleared for racing. TBH if the club didn't have the format that it does I would have given up the whole idea of racing. :- "


Must have been posting at the same time :D 'retard' (w00t) is that another word for slow :lol:
 
I too will have to go more for speed but i do feel we need to find ways to give other dogs a chance for everyone to enjoy their day. My thought are that if we are aiming for speed and only speed we limiting our breeding lines and the end result is major faults we now wish to be rid of. I want the next fastest dog to improve on what I have. My older dog however has some really good points, Brains beauty and the heart of a lion ,to quote my hubby. i would hate to lose that side of my dog because that has a major attraction to me as I have to live with her. Will all of that be lost in the quest to find the next fastest thing?
 
*Lesley* said:
wild whippies said:
Until ALL clubs start to handicap based on ability and NOT on speed then what person in their right minds is going to risk buying in a potentially really slow dog (male) to race it.
As a member of a club that does time handicapping (with advance and retard) I feel Barb is spot on here. Not only could this potentially widen your gene pool, I think it would increase your club members, encourage and retain newcomers and give the dogs a better sense of well being (I don't think it's just owners that loose heart if they loose every week)

The other matter is you need these slower dogs in your clubs to help train your youngsters, I actually feel quite proud that because my peds have always been perfect dogs for training others, they've enabled all our clubs' non-ped whippets be cleared for racing. TBH if the club didn't have the format that it does I would have given up the whole idea of racing. :- "


Must have been posting at the same time :D 'retard' (w00t) is that another word for slow :lol:


what a hideous word! :(
 
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retard

Pronunciation[ri-tahrd, for 1–3, 5; ree-tahrd for 4] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–verb (used with object) 1. to make slow; delay the development or progress of (an action, process, etc.); hinder or impede.

–verb (used without object) 2. to be delayed.
 
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~whitecross whippets~ said:
*Lesley* said:
wild whippies said:
Until ALL clubs start to handicap based on ability and NOT on speed then what person in their right minds is going to risk buying in a potentially really slow dog (male) to race it.
As a member of a club that does time handicapping (with advance and retard) I feel Barb is spot on here. Not only could this potentially widen your gene pool, I think it would increase your club members, encourage and retain newcomers and give the dogs a better sense of well being (I don't think it's just owners that loose heart if they loose every week)

The other matter is you need these slower dogs in your clubs to help train your youngsters, I actually feel quite proud that because my peds have always been perfect dogs for training others, they've enabled all our clubs' non-ped whippets be cleared for racing. TBH if the club didn't have the format that it does I would have given up the whole idea of racing. :- "


Must have been posting at the same time :D 'retard' (w00t) is that another word for slow :lol:


what a hideous word! :(

It is when used by the ignorant, but Jac didnt mean it in that way Kaz

wild whippies said:
retard  Pronunciation[ri-tahrd, for 1–3, 5; ree-tahrd for 4] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–verb (used with object) 1. to make slow; delay the development or progress of (an action, process, etc.); hinder or impede

–verb (used without object) 2. to be delayed.

Thanks Jac :thumbsup:
 
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>My thought are that if we are aiming for speed and only speed we limiting our breeding lines and the end result is major faults we now wish to be rid of.

This idea that breeders are breeding for speed only is an interesting one. I hear it mentioned a lot but I don't actually know anyone who breeds just for speed. A lot of breeders I know put temperament higher.

Without the right temperament then speed is wasted.

Incidentally I was fairly saddened when the racing bred dogs proved to be 'better' at hill sprinting than the coursing lines. I was hoping that over the longer distance the coursing blood would win out. :(
 

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