British And American Whippets

[UKUSA]

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Since I have been a member of K9 I have accepted various members invitation to visit their websites and how impressive many of them are, all singing and dancing, whistles and bells, it is easy to see how Joe Public could be easily impressed. One in particular, however caught my eye with its claim of being"quite unique in the U.K as we breed a more American type" As someone who lived for many years in the U.S and put 8 Whippets through quarantine, some of them champions, I would have to ask why would you want an American type of Whippet? The British and American standards differ in many areas. I can understand taking the best of both and combineing in which case this particular kennel would would not be the first to do this. My young dog that I am showing at the moment is a mixture of English and American, the top Whippet in the country has American blood. The U.K is the standard that is accepted in most countries around the world with ofcourse the exception of the U.S Please dont get me wrong, I love the American Whippet, style, elegance, movement, when they get it right boy do they get it r

ight but my feeling is when in Rome............... Our standard calls for a different dog.

Nicky

 

[05whippet]

Ms Warner,

I think I am right in saying that it is my website you are referring to? For those who don’t know, it is infact MOSSBAWNHILL.

You ask why someone would want an American type of whippet? I can only speak for myself, surely personal taste & choice may have something to do with this? There are many dogs & kennels I admire from the US for a variation of different reasons I don’t see why there should be a problem in admiring a different type?

I am sure the Americans think along the same lines & admire some of our dogs which is why there have been a number of our English bred dogs exported out there too and not forgetting the several influential English kennels that have imported American bred dogs.

Are we all to be so blinkered that we can only see stock from our own country of origin & dismiss all else? I for one think not and I am sure I am not alone in casting my mind back to a very recent American imported whippet that subsequently gained their English title,thus proving that although the English and American standards do differ in areas as you have highlighted, a US bred dog can obviously still conform to the English breed standard.

I happen to like a certain type which is my choice BUT it appears not to be just mine alone as my breeding programme since I began in 2005 has so far produced just 2 litters of which 9 dogs have graced the show rings in Ireland, England & on the Continent.

So far in their short careers they have been awarded between them 2 CC's, 5 RCC's, 16 Green Stars, 17 Reserve Green Stars,5 Stud Book Numbers,several BP's & BPIB's as well as numerous Grp wins. As the second litter are not long out of puppy I am more than pleased with all their success's & the fact that they have been so obviously admired & considered correct to the ENGLISH & FCI breed standard by a multitude of judges both in England, Ireland & Europe, even though they are in fact mostly of American breeding.

I think perhaps it is a case of each to their own, if you are happy with what you are breeding & showing & achievng good results then I personally think that the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

I do not normally feel that I should have to justify my views or my breeding but felt that as you had specifically quoted wording from my website and asked a particular question,I felt it only polite to reply.

Hope this clarifies the situation.

 

[UKUSA]

You have completely missed the point. Surely you should be breeding Whippets to the breed standard of the country that you are exhibiting in after all arent we all trying to get as close to the breed standard as possible? I lived in the u.S.A for14 years, my bloodlines incorporated, amongst others ,BOHEM, STONEY MEADOWS ETC so obviously I am very familar with the American dogs but when I returned to this country I had to breed to the British standard. Going along with your theory we would be left with a stylised hound that does not fit either standard. You mention a recent American import who gained her title well the only one that I can think of would be Sporting Fields Winged Dove over Dumbriton , ask Patsy why Dolly came to England

Ofcourse it is your perogative to have whatever you like but blinkered I am not and it didnt take me long to realise that I had to retrain my eye and seriously had to rethink my breeding program. Ihave been in Whippets for 30years and have bred champions on both side of the Atlantic and I appreciate Whippets from all over the world but this is the country that Ilive in now and this is the standard that I try to breed too. As proud as I was of AM.CH FAIRWAY RIPTIDE I was under no illusion that I could have made him up here

NICKY.

 

[05whippet]

No,I don't believe that I have missed the point at all? There is very little difference other than height and an emphasis on pigment and eye color between the two standards and as my dogs are all within the desired English height they do actually conform to the standard. As I mentioned previously it is all a matter of individual taste,some people prefer a finer,lighter built whippet more along the lines of the racing or coursing whippet whilst others prefer the slightly heavier built cobbier whippet but BOTH are classed as English whippets,so who is right or wrong?

The point I was making when I referred to the American import was that she obviously conformed to the English breed standard thus gaining her title,the whys and wherefores as to her being brought into the country is of no concern of mine,it merely highlights that a dog bred under the American standard does not differ so greatly to one bred under the English standard.

Personally I think we could discuss this subject all night and still not agree,I think everyone has their own interpretation of the breed standard,as has been debated on this forum many,many times before,and also their choice of "type" me personally? I just prefer a more American type and would'nt this be a very boring world if we all liked the same thing??

I feel that this subject is one that you and I may have to agree to disagree on and leave it at that. :thumbsup:

 

[seaspot_run]

I am an American who brought in an import from the UK who does NOT fit the US standard with regard to one of our very few differences from the UK standard. I did this because I felt that the strengths were going to be useful in breeding and the pigment issue was easy enough to address. It is important to give a fresh shot of new blood to your gene pool from time and time and many people all over the world do this in all breeds (despite slightly different standards) by importing dogs to bring in desirable qualities that cannot be obtained as easily through a domestic outcross.

The US standard really only differs materially from the UK standard in a few areas. First, size, but from what I have seen, your dogs are well within the size range that many of us show over here, although the larger extremes are lacking. So, that means our more moderate sized dogs would not be penalized under your standard as they would be the same size as the average of what they are up against. The other differences all have to do with the wording on pigment, eye color, and some details of head type. The US standard asks for underjaw while the UK standard does not, but that doesn't mean that a dog with underjaw is penalized in the UK, it's just not important. The US standard asks for darker eyes and nose pigment than the UK standard, but that doesn't mean that the UK standard penalizes dark eyes and noses. The UK standard does describe the shape of the head differently, asking for width between the eyes instead of width between the ears, but there is sufficient variability in heads that many English heads are fine for here and many US heads are fine for there.

So, there is no reason that based on the standards alone that there should be any marked difference between a good US and a good UK Whippet other than size, and since many US Whippets are small enough to do well there and many UK Whippets are large enough to do well HERE, it really boils down to style issues and the prevalent color/marking issues, but when your all-time top winner is a dark brindle and white bitch like Nutshell of Nevedith, I don't think there's a good case that can be made that the typical dark brindle and white particolor American show Whippet couldn't possibly have anything to add to a breeding program. It's more likely that the extreme cost and trouble (not mention the quarantines which were in effect for so long that most people did not want to subject their young dogs and puppies to) keeps more people from importing from the US.

National and regional style, now, that's another thing. South America uses the FCI standard, but their dogs are very heavily influenced by the USA look and are shown in that style. They don't look much like the English Whippets for the most part. Scandinavia has a history of bringing over dogs from the US which do really well there and work great in pedigrees, and one of the top dogs in Europe as a winner and a sire was Paris Panther, who was very American in pedigree--his sire was litterbrother to our top winning male Whippet of all time.

The big question in my mind as I look at dogs internationally is why do Whippets in Australia tend to have such a different outline from those in the UK? I see the US dogs as being closer in outline to the UK dogs, despite the fact that the Aussie dogs tend to have much more UK breeding close up. But they have a very different outline to my eye.

There are certainly people here who have been eager to buy something different, and have been happy to buy my more English style dogs. I can certainly see why a UK breeder might try to mix it up a little and breed some lines that are a bit closer to American style, while still fitting well enough into the UK standard. I think that there is a lot to be gained from working with international lines, which is why I have an interest in doing it. Other than size, none of the differences in the wording of the standards really amount to a hill of beans.

Karen Lee

 

[kris]

some top dogs from other countries come over here to compete at crufts.if their standard and their dogs were so different to ours why would their breeders bother to spend all that time, money and effort to do so if they thought they didnt stand a chance as their dogs would be so different to ours?a friend of mine called Bill O'laughlin who has the Bassbar bassets came back over here a few years back and brought some fabulous bassets back with him from italy.they swept the boards over here and have been used at stud wisely by the uk breeders who know a good thing when they see it :thumbsup:

 

[Seraphina]

There is not much difference between the UK and USA standards, but of-course we all interpret the standard slightly differently. There was a time when the US Whippets seemed to me substantially different and exaggerated. Although I have to admit, I did not spend much time going though the US websites and instead I concentrated on the UK and European ones, which had dogs more to my liking. However the US imports work very well with other lines as any extreme exaggerations even out. Here in OZ the US bloodlines were blamed for size increase, however there have been some UK imports producing very large progeny indeed.

I think we all should aim to breed healthy, sound dogs with nice temperaments, correct size, and most importantly, as ALL the Standards say all forms of exaggeration should be avoided.

When somebody says they are aiming to breed American type, that to me means that are aiming for the exaggeration that makes US Whippet different. :unsure: :wacko:

 

[seaspot_run]

There is not much difference between the UK and USA standards, but of-course we all interpret the standard slightly differently.  There was a time when the US Whippets seemed to me substantially different and exaggerated.  Although I have to admit, I did not spend much time going though the US websites and instead I concentrated on the UK and European ones, which had dogs more to my liking.  However the US imports work very well with other lines as any extreme exaggerations even out.  Here in OZ the US bloodlines were blamed for size increase, however there have been some UK imports producing very large progeny indeed. I think we all should aim to breed healthy, sound dogs with nice temperaments, correct size, and most importantly, as ALL the Standards say all forms of exaggeration should be avoided. 

When somebody says they are aiming to breed American type, that to me means that are aiming for the exaggeration that makes US Whippet different.    :unsure:   :wacko:  

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Our standard also says "All forms of exaggeration are to be avoided".

You can make an argument based on what appears in magazines, but it's hard to make an argument that our standards are that different, other than size, and frankly. the size overlaps quite a bit.

Actually exaggeration is anything that deviates materially from the mean. Which is relative.

The USA is a huge country and we have not just national style but regional style. Then, if you include Canada, I would say there's a difference between the prevailing style of BC/Alberta and Montreal and east into the Maritimes.

There are dogs here who would fit in just fine in an Aussie ring (and have). There are dogs here who could certainly win in the UK. And vice-versa. I think our differences in individual cases are real, but not in terms of the totality of what is being produced. One thing I find is that when we get UK judges here for the most part, they pick many of the same dogs who win well under the US judges, so it's not like we are worlds apart. Other than very, very superficial things (such as coat color and eye color in some cases) I really do not think we are. I think we are more apart in terms of our presentation style, which highlights and exaggerates the differences.

A good 19 1/2" bitch nowadays should be able to win in ANY country. Per the standards. In my opinion.

 

[blackbox]

A good whippet is a good whippet whether it is American, English, German, Swedish whatever the breeding. There are good & bad in both American & English lines. Apart from the differing height factor the other area's are really not a huge difference. If an American bred whippet conforms to the English standard in height & every other aspect but may appear a slightly different type there should be no problem, equally same applies to an English bred whippet in the US. "Exaggerations" can unfortunately be seen across the board from time to time & there are some exaggerated over angulated English bred whippets & also English bred whippets well oversized to the English breed standard & still exhibited. A good whippet of correct size should be able to win anywhere in the world no matter what nationality its breeding is.

 

[Seraphina]

I think we all should aim to breed healthy, sound dogs with nice temperaments, correct size, and most importantly, as ALL the Standards say all forms of exaggeration should be avoided. 

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Our standard also says "All forms of exaggeration are to be avoided".

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Isn't it exactly what I said ????

Actually exaggeration is anything that deviates materially from the mean.  Which is relative.

Absolutely, but the thing is that the mean is slightly different in the USA than in other parts of the world.

One of the things that used to be very different was the length of the neck

One thing I find is that when we get UK judges here for the most part, they pick many of the same dogs who win well under the US judges, so it's not like we are worlds apart.

Well, I imagine the judges are picking up the dog with sound conformation and good movement. That does not mean that the dogs are not slightly different type to what they have in UK.

Other than very, very superficial things (such as coat color and eye color in some cases) I really do not think we are. I think we are more apart in terms of our presentation style, which highlights and exaggerates the differences.

Of-course, i am talking about very subtle differences and if you read my post carefully you notice I say "it seems to me" , which suggests that is my observation. Of-course, you Karen have much deeper knowledge of the US lines and see the even more subtle differences. It is just like when I had a litter of 15 black and blue Danes, I could tell them all apart, they all looked different to me, while people who came to see them could only divide them by colour.

A good 19 1/2" bitch nowadays should be able to win in ANY country.  Per the standards. In my opinion.

Absolutely, although if she was in ring with another bitch of equal quality but only 18.5" IMHO the smaller one should beat her.

 

[seaspot_run]

A good 19 1/2" bitch nowadays should be able to win in ANY country.  Per the standards. In my opinion.

Absolutely, although if she was in ring with another bitch of equal quality but only 18.5" IMHO the smaller one should beat her.

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In the UK and FCI countries, without a doubt.

But I just don't find that the top winners over there are 18 1/2" in general.

They are closer to 19 1/2" and the top males are 20 1/2-21" which is in line with some of ours.

I apologise for appearing not to understand you were saying that it was all standards.

The US does have some very exaggerated Whippets, but in general, I have found that the last 15 years there has been a craze for moderation, which has become a fad in and of itself. As for our necks--well, yes. But we also show them and stack in them a way that accentuates their length and many of our exhibitors run clippers down the neck to accentuate their length and elegance.

I think more of that is grooming and presentation than one might think.

What's a normal neck here may be considered extreme elsewhere, though.

The UK standard also asks for a neck which is long. The wording of the standard is the same. It's the interpretation. Topline is another area where interpretations differ. I would definitely say they like a shorter-cast Whippet with more topline in South America than they do in the UK despite having basically the same standard. An exaggerated topline in the UK would not be exaggerated in Argentina, compared to the prevailing style.

I think we can all agree that the average UK champion looks different than the average US champion or the average Brazilian Champion. But that's not so much the standards pushing that, it's individual styles based on preferences and on the gene pool breeders are working with. Americans tend to breed a more flashy dog with a greater degree of glamour points. The UK dogs are more balanced and true to essentials, and that's why importing has worked so well for the USA through the decades, although we tend to bring over your larger, flashier dogs.

 

[Seraphina]

What's a normal neck here may be considered extreme elsewhere, though.
The UK standard also asks for a neck which is long.

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Exactly, and that is my lifelong winge about standards; it is so easy to take the meaning as longer the better. Although the <no exaggeration> clause should put brakes on it, the problem is the exaggeration does not happen overnight. If puppy has a little bit longer neck than the parent it does not seem exaggerated.

 

[05whippet]

There is not much difference between the UK and USA standards, but of-course we all interpret the standard slightly differently.  There was a time when the US Whippets seemed to me substantially different and exaggerated.  Although I have to admit, I did not spend much time going though the US websites and instead I concentrated on the UK and European ones, which had dogs more to my liking.  However the US imports work very well with other lines as any extreme exaggerations even out.  Here in OZ the US bloodlines were blamed for size increase, however there have been some UK imports producing very large progeny indeed. I think we all should aim to breed healthy, sound dogs with nice temperaments, correct size, and most importantly, as ALL the Standards say all forms of exaggeration should be avoided. 

When somebody says they are aiming to breed American type,that to me means that are aiming for the exaggeration that makes US Whippet different.  :unsure:   :wacko:  

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That is not what I am aiming for at all...I feel that my dogs are more of an American type - in fact I would be surprised if they were'nt as they have a very high proportion of American blood in the pedigrees - in the sense that they are slightly longer cast,have a slightly longer neck and also have the lovely dark eyeliner,dark eyes and black pigment that the American dogs have,and I also like the "ring prescence" that a lot of their dogs have too but as stated previously this is my preference and I shall reiterate that I believe the type you like,for there are a few differing types within the standard, is a very personal thing.I don't see the point of breeding or showing something that is not your "cup of tea" after all we do still have to live with the dogs!! but in my eyes they are'nt exaggerated in any form and obviously I am not alone in thinking this as a few critiques have stated similar and yet they do still conform to the English standard.

I would'nt have thought that my breeding preferences would have caused such controversy??? :blink:

 

[patsy]

Now in all fairness I don't think that Nicky mentioned any I site, as there are others. I have been on a post before and said how grateful I am for my American bloodlines, but it was brought in for what I considered to be a perfect blend, as most of my close freinds know that my ideal whippet must be elegant have curves in the right places with some substance, whippets are not as easy to breed as some people think, the fine line between elegance and substance is the hardest thing of all,. too much of one and not enough of the other and you loose the whippet. Yes the standards do differ and when I judged in America I studied it very carefully and I am sure that our American friends on the board will tell you that east coast dogs and west coast dogs do differ, on the east coast it was rather like stepping into a ring at home, Although the west coast dogs are bred to the American standard I am sure that they would not mind me saying they would be far too much for over here, and yes we do have our kennel club standards that we must never ignore,they are the put into place to keep breeder on the straight and narrow.It was way back when I was Judging at Trenton that an idea came to me, just a dream really, and those pretty heads and long necks never left my mind and believe me it took a lot longer than three years and two litters.I felt that our whippets were starting to be less shapely and heavy, we were loosing lengh of neck, I wa also aware that depth and front fill must be retained, and I must say that is where a lot of American dogs fail. also in spring of pastern.As I have said before I have seen many that would be champions world wideand have quoted them in articles that I have written. We must never forget that we do have breed standards, that we must try to breed as closely to as possible.

The reason that Debbie let Dolly come to England was her eye shape it was almond in shape as called for in our standard, although she has very dark eyes and has full pigment, Jason was another story and what a treasure it was love at first sight and the bonus was he was by Jazz Fest Dolly's grandsire out of a Nevedith bred bitch, so he to me is the perfect package,Dolly was mated to Peperone Solid Gold a lovely type whippet,and a son of Nevedith Rare Rogue, and yes I think I have got the blend that I was searching for. I know by the emails that I have received recently that there are a few of our American friends thinking on the same lines.

 

[ROSIE MEADOWS]

I have seen on this forum that outlines (can't spell sillouhette) of whippets have been put on for a virtual dog show. It would be interesting if somebody could put on some english champions and some USA champions to see how many people could pick out the two.

Just a thought.

 

[05whippet]

Now in all fairness I don't think that Nicky mentioned any I site, as there are others. I have been on a post before and said how grateful I am for my American bloodlines, but it was brought in for what I considered to be a perfect blend, as most of my close freinds know that my ideal whippet must be elegant have curves in the right places with some substance, whippets are not as easy to breed as some people think, the fine line between elegance and substance is the hardest thing of all,. too much of one and not enough of the other and you loose the whippet. Yes the standards do differ and when I judged in America I studied it very carefully and I am sure that our American friends on the board will tell you that east coast dogs and west coast dogs do differ, on the  east coast it was rather like stepping into a ring at home, Although the west coast dogs are bred to the American standard I am sure that they would not mind me saying they would be far too much for over here, and yes we do have our kennel club standards that we must never ignore,they are the put into place to keep breeder on the straight and narrow.It was way back when I was Judging at Trenton that an idea came to me, just a dream really, and those pretty heads and long necks never left my mind and believe me it took a lot longer than three years and two litters.I felt that our whippets were starting to be less shapely and heavy, we were loosing lengh of neck, I wa also aware that depth and front fill must be retained, and I must say that is where a lot of American dogs fail. also in spring of pastern.As I have said before I have seen many that would be champions world wideand have quoted them in articles that I have written. We must never forget that we do have breed standards, that we must try to breed as closely to as possible.  The reason that Debbie let Dolly come to England was her eye shape it was almond in shape as called for in our standard, although she has very dark eyes and has full pigment, Jason was another story and what a treasure it was love at first sight and the bonus was he was by Jazz Fest Dolly's grandsire out of a Nevedith bred bitch, so he to me is the perfect package,Dolly was mated to Peperone Solid Gold a lovely type whippet,and a son of Nevedith Rare Rogue, and yes I think I have got the blend that I was searching for. I know by the emails that I have received recently that there are a few of our American friends thinking on the same lines.

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Well I beg to differ regarding your opening line...she did mention one site in particular albeit inadvertently by quoting direct text from my site!

And also I don't doubt that it will take a lot longer than our two litters in three years to get my ideal whippet but what we have bred so far has worked for us and we are happy with how well they have done so surely that is half the battle.

 

[petrezselyem]

I am an American who brought in an import from the UK who does NOT fit the US standard with regard to one of our very few differences from the UK standard.  I did this because I felt that the strengths were going to be useful in breeding and the pigment issue was easy enough to address.  It is important to give a fresh shot of new blood to your gene pool from time and time and many people all over the world do this in all breeds (despite slightly different standards) by importing dogs to bring in desirable qualities that cannot be obtained as easily through a domestic outcross.
The US standard really only differs materially from the UK standard in a few areas.  First, size, but from what I have seen, your dogs are well within the size range that many of us show over here, although the larger extremes are lacking. So, that means our more moderate sized dogs would not be penalized under your standard as they would be the same size as the average of what they are up against.  The other differences all have to do with the wording on pigment, eye color, and some details of head type. The US standard asks for underjaw while the UK standard does not, but that doesn't mean that a dog with underjaw is penalized in the UK, it's just not important. The US standard asks for darker eyes and nose pigment than the UK standard, but that doesn't mean that the UK standard penalizes dark eyes and noses.  The UK standard does describe the shape of the head differently, asking for width between the eyes instead of width between the ears, but there is sufficient variability in heads that many English heads are fine for here and many US heads are fine for there.

So, there is no reason that based on the standards alone that there should be any marked difference between a good US and a good UK Whippet other than size, and since many US Whippets are small enough to do well there and many UK Whippets are large enough to do well HERE, it really boils down to style issues and the prevalent color/marking issues, but when your all-time top winner is a dark brindle and white bitch like Nutshell of Nevedith, I don't think there's a good case that can be made that the typical dark brindle and white particolor American show Whippet couldn't possibly have anything to add to a breeding program. It's more likely that the extreme cost and trouble (not mention the quarantines which were in effect for so long that most people did not want to subject their young dogs and puppies to) keeps more people from importing from the US.

National and regional style, now, that's another thing. South America uses the FCI standard, but their dogs are very heavily influenced by the USA look and are shown in that style. They don't look much like the English Whippets for the most part.  Scandinavia has a history of bringing over dogs from the US which do really well there and work great in pedigrees, and one of the top dogs in Europe as a winner and a sire was Paris Panther, who was very American in pedigree--his sire was litterbrother to our top winning male Whippet of all time.

The big question in my mind as I look at dogs internationally is why do Whippets in Australia tend to have such a different outline from those in the UK? I see the US dogs as being closer in outline to the UK dogs, despite the fact that the Aussie dogs tend to have much more UK breeding close up. But they have a very different outline to my eye.

There are certainly people here who have been eager to buy something different, and have been happy to buy my more English style dogs. I can certainly see why a UK breeder might try to mix it up a little and breed some lines that are a bit closer to American style, while still fitting well enough into the UK standard.  I think that there is a lot to be gained from working with international lines, which is why I have an interest in doing it.  Other than size, none of the differences in the wording of the standards really amount to a hill of beans.

Karen Lee

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Absolutely agree!

We have some half american-half european whippets here in Hungary and now Willow is here as well. There are some american imports and american sired Whippets in our area too. These dogs can do well in European rings and breeding, are very succesful. Showing nice qualities, elegance, etc......

I have to tell that I just can't find the reason why the US and the FCI/UK standard were exluding to each other.

Karen and Seraphina just wrote the essense....

I just would like to make up this whole with my thought about the standard: it leaves quite a big elbow-room for breeding and all of us have our own tastes. That makes breeding interesting and helps us keeping the variability and the wide gene pool as well. The breed standard is the starting point, the minimum.

The standard can't be against breeders' freedom and impressions about the breed, everyone has the right of the free interpretation and constructive following.

I just would like to cite a saying by Annalisa Moschini ( HailHare kennel, Italy):

"Breed and let breed"

I don't think that we had the right to tell anybody what to do or not do.



And another thought: globalisation. I think that the future is the globalised Whippet, because the standards allow wide range of variability so we all have the chance using US, UK or even Aussie dogs in our breeding. And still fit our standards!

 

[05whippet]

I am an American who brought in an import from the UK who does NOT fit the US standard with regard to one of our very few differences from the UK standard.  I did this because I felt that the strengths were going to be useful in breeding and the pigment issue was easy enough to address.  It is important to give a fresh shot of new blood to your gene pool from time and time and many people all over the world do this in all breeds (despite slightly different standards) by importing dogs to bring in desirable qualities that cannot be obtained as easily through a domestic outcross.
The US standard really only differs materially from the UK standard in a few areas.  First, size, but from what I have seen, your dogs are well within the size range that many of us show over here, although the larger extremes are lacking. So, that means our more moderate sized dogs would not be penalized under your standard as they would be the same size as the average of what they are up against.  The other differences all have to do with the wording on pigment, eye color, and some details of head type. The US standard asks for underjaw while the UK standard does not, but that doesn't mean that a dog with underjaw is penalized in the UK, it's just not important. The US standard asks for darker eyes and nose pigment than the UK standard, but that doesn't mean that the UK standard penalizes dark eyes and noses.  The UK standard does describe the shape of the head differently, asking for width between the eyes instead of width between the ears, but there is sufficient variability in heads that many English heads are fine for here and many US heads are fine for there.

So, there is no reason that based on the standards alone that there should be any marked difference between a good US and a good UK Whippet other than size, and since many US Whippets are small enough to do well there and many UK Whippets are large enough to do well HERE, it really boils down to style issues and the prevalent color/marking issues, but when your all-time top winner is a dark brindle and white bitch like Nutshell of Nevedith, I don't think there's a good case that can be made that the typical dark brindle and white particolor American show Whippet couldn't possibly have anything to add to a breeding program. It's more likely that the extreme cost and trouble (not mention the quarantines which were in effect for so long that most people did not want to subject their young dogs and puppies to) keeps more people from importing from the US.

National and regional style, now, that's another thing. South America uses the FCI standard, but their dogs are very heavily influenced by the USA look and are shown in that style. They don't look much like the English Whippets for the most part.  Scandinavia has a history of bringing over dogs from the US which do really well there and work great in pedigrees, and one of the top dogs in Europe as a winner and a sire was Paris Panther, who was very American in pedigree--his sire was litterbrother to our top winning male Whippet of all time.

The big question in my mind as I look at dogs internationally is why do Whippets in Australia tend to have such a different outline from those in the UK? I see the US dogs as being closer in outline to the UK dogs, despite the fact that the Aussie dogs tend to have much more UK breeding close up. But they have a very different outline to my eye.

There are certainly people here who have been eager to buy something different, and have been happy to buy my more English style dogs. I can certainly see why a UK breeder might try to mix it up a little and breed some lines that are a bit closer to American style, while still fitting well enough into the UK standard.  I think that there is a lot to be gained from working with international lines, which is why I have an interest in doing it.  Other than size, none of the differences in the wording of the standards really amount to a hill of beans.

Karen Lee

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Absolutely agree!

We have some half american-half european whippets here in Hungary and now Willow is here as well. There are some american imports and american sired Whippets in our area too. These dogs can do well in European rings and breeding, are very succesful. Showing nice qualities, elegance, etc......

I have to tell that I just can't find the reason why the US and the FCI/UK standard were exluding to each other.

Karen and Seraphina just wrote the essense....

I just would like to make up this whole with my thought about the standard: it leaves quite a big elbow-room for breeding and all of us have our own tastes. That makes breeding interesting and helps us keeping the variability and the wide gene pool as well. The breed standard is the starting point, the minimum.

The standard can't be against breeders' freedom and impressions about the breed, everyone has the right of the free interpretation and constructive following.

I just would like to cite a saying by Annalisa Moschini ( HailHare Kennel,Italy)

"Breed and let breed"

I don't think that we had the right to tell anybody what to do or not do.

 

And another thought: globalisation. I think that the future is the globalised Whippet, because the standards allow wide range of variability so we all have the chance using US, UK or even Aussie dogs in our breeding. And still fit our standards!

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Very well said! and what a good "saying"

 

[patsy]

I find some of your comments a blatant disregard for our breed standard. Why when judging do so many of our top judges spend time rereading the standard. It has just been quoted that the breed standard is minimum I hope that this comment is something that has been lost in translation,The breed standard is the blue print, and I now feel those of us from the breed council who put many many hours revising it have just wasted our time.

 

[petrezselyem]

It has just been quoted that the breed standard is minimum I hope that this comment is something that has been lost in translation,The breed standard is the blue print, and I now feel those of us from the breed council who put many many hours revising it have just wasted our time.

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Maybe lost in translation, maybe not.

I just would like to express that all of the dogs should pass the standard but this not means that they should have the same look.

So the standard shows the "minimum requirements", it shows us what this breed really is. In this reading the standard is the blue print, the "foot-stone" of the breed.

But what beyond the standard is : the freedom of breeding.

This is my own opinion. :b

I don't think that You have wasted Your time, the standard is very good!