Bully Whippets

[Macha]

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apparently dogs with one allele for the mutant myostatin gene are fast dogs with out having the extreme appearance of the bullies

naturally a breeder would choose to breed fast dogs, and preferably to breed a fast dog to a fast bitch. If the "bully" mutation is a factor in the dogs' speed they are likely to have some offspring which have a pair of mutant genes and exhibit the undesirable extreme bully makeup. so selective breeding is definitely a factor

the NY Times article was more about the use of DNA testing by dog breeders than about the details of "bully" genetics

DNA testing could be useful in ruling out serious inherited diseases but doesn't sound like a good idea for other characteristics as a good dog is a combination of many factors and many different genes. One breeder quoted wanted to exclude chocolate poodles from her gene pool. I thought that was extremely silly. By ordinary selective breeding she can probably get mostly blacks and the chocolate pups will still be acceptable in the show ring and desirable to some of the people who want to buy poodle pups -- and what other good characteristics might be weeded out along with the chocolate gene?

 

[Cathrine]

My Mac is a bully. He is occasionally bothered by muscle cramps, but it is under control with proper feeding and supplements. Otherwise he is your typical whippet. We love him just the way he is!

He is also overshot, as 50% of the bullies are :*

 

[Cathrine]

My Mac is a bully. He is occasionally bothered by muscle cramps, but it is under control with proper feeding and supplements. Otherwise he is your typical whippet. We love him just the way he is!

He is also overshot, as 50% of the bullies are :*

 

[Seraphina]

more about the boy in Germany

strong boy

 

[Seraphina]

The Yorkshire Post article even says "Their guess is that the gene concerned has made headway in the whippet population, through breeding from champion racers, to the point where it now regularly occurs in both parents"Bullies are not made by mutation, they are made by breeding mutated parents.

:thumbsup:

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That is true, but breeding 2 champions together has been done for centuries, so if the this mutation has been in the breed for a long while, bullys would have been popping up in just about every litter, at least in the racing dogs. I would expect 1/4 of all the pups born say in one year to be bullys. Which is deffinitely not the case.

I would not pay much attention what is the opinion of The Yorkshire Post :wacko:

 

[Cornish]

well I know mine is a pred as I did some research and followed the breeders papers back on all the boys she uses with her girls.

I am afraid I am a bit of a NIMBY on this.... each to their own

 

[Judy]

I've (hopefully) merged the 2 topics about this subject that were in this forum so that it might be a bit less confusing. The other one was called "Genetics Please Read!"

 

[boothros]

Im not ashamed to admit that before these threads started, Id never actually seen a bully whippet though I had heard of them. I had no idea how totally OTT they look, but for some reason, Im absolutely fascinated with them and cant wait to see the next pic that shows up. Oddly, they actually frighten me as well as fascinating me & I open the pics with trepidation, the same way as Id watch a horror film from behind my fingers.

 

[~Helen~]

Are there any bullies in the UK? I think I might know one, but always assumed a poor whippet had been covered by a staffie and produced... a big muscly boy

 

[Cornish]

I have Googled it and I am sorry but in my opinion they look like something out of a horror movie.... they do look very strange.... like a whippet who has taken steriods :blink:

Surely, if you mix with staffy's etc who are of a more 'uptight' nature they can be dangerous? unlike a placid whippy :unsure:

 

[*~alphabitch~*]

:unsure: This is my first post so, that being said...PLEASE don't discount my question...these "bully whippets" while not preferred understandably by whippet breeders due to abnormal traits.... Are there any available by any breeders for sale?

My husband & I are currently working on a bandog program consisting of American Bulldogs, Bully Blue-nose Pit Bull Terriers predominately but, I myself think that the bully whippet could hold extreme merit for athletisism and speed, while maintaining the "bully" traits...Or at least the possibility...Our goal is the ultimate estate/home guardian...keeping the positive traits of the American Bulldog & Pit Bull while ideally improving the health, athletisism & endurance...it may seem strange but I think that something like a bully whippet may further my goals...

Mind you, I have just heard of this phenomenon today...I am unsure if there is any downside to this other than not fitting into a certain breed phenotype(which in my case is not a concern) We have just begun this endeavor, all dogs will be honestly pedigreed & will not leave my yard until they represent consistantly what we have sought to produce...

In any case, any positive input is welcome...

Tawnya

 

[Seraphina]

I myself think that the bully whippet could hold extreme merit for athletisism and speed, while maintaining the "bully" traits...Or at least the possibility...Our goal is the ultimate estate/home guardian...keeping the positive traits of the American Bulldog & Pit Bull while ideally improving the health, athletisism & endurance...it may seem strange but I think that something like a bully whippet may further my goals...
Tawnya

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If you think that you either did not read the study into this mutation or you have absolutely no understanding of genetics. While first crosses having just single mh gene may be more athletic, further down the track when you get mh/mh animals they will not because lack of myostatin results in excessive muscle growth but impaired force generation, it also produces very short bottom jaws (in about 50% of these dogs). The double muscling causes cramping. This is undesireble mutation , there is a possibility of further health issues.

here is the link again, pleas read it;

bully research

 

[Cathrine]

Are there any bullies in the UK? I think I might know one, but always assumed a poor whippet had been covered by a staffie and produced... a big muscly boy

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Yes, there are bullies in the UK. You will mostly find them in the non pedigree whippet racing enviroment. As an owner of a bully I can tell you that except for the muscles they are just like other whippets.

View attachment 45461

 

[*~alphabitch~*]

Thank you for the link, I will read it, I read several articles, I will read as many as I can...

As I said it is/was merely a thought....I have a fantastic understanding of genetics, Which is exactly why I was CONSIDERING and RESEARCHING this mutation...

Short under jaw? How short? You did read my post about creating a bandog right? Using Bulldogs & Pit Bulls?? How short? Short for a whippet or short for a bulldog?

Cramping? Under what circumstances? Under extreme race circumstances? Or under daily living situations? I am trying to produce the ultimate home guardian,remember? Not the whippet race champion, I am doing research!

Tawnya

 

[Penny23]

Thank you for the link, I will read it, I read several articles, I will read as many as I can...
As I said it is/was merely a thought....I have a fantastic understanding of genetics, Which is exactly why I was CONSIDERING and RESEARCHING this mutation...

Short under jaw? How short? You did read my post about creating a bandog right? Using Bulldogs & Pit Bulls?? How short? Short for a whippet or short for a bulldog?

Cramping? Under what circumstances? Under extreme race circumstances? Or under daily living situations? I am trying to produce the ultimate home guardian,remember? Not the whippet race champion, I am doing research!

Tawnya

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Personally, I think that if you want to protect your property you should go get an alarm. I think it is wrong to own or breed a dog just because you think it will be the "ultimate home guardian" (not to mention asking for trouble). Whippets are definitely not aggressive, and would not excel at "close quarter combat" :lol: as this sites says Bandogs should: http://www.bandog.info/

 

[JAX]

If you were to mate a `bully` whippet with `something else to make your home guardian , what would happen to all the other crossbred dogs out of the litter that didnt `make the grade `

Whippets are loving social animals and should not be considered for mating to any other breed to make a guard dog IMO

 

[masta]

i think i may have a bully?

 

[Cornish]

i think i may have a bully?

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LOL has someone been playing around with photoshop again :lol:

 

[Tony Taylor]

Yes, except the MSTN mutation in the cells of the parent dogs is neither here nor there - they are perfectly normal looking whippets, not bullies  
The Yorkshire Post article even says "Their guess is that the gene concerned has made headway in the whippet population, through breeding from champion racers, to the point where it now regularly occurs in both parents"

As you say, genetic mutation happens for a number of reasons, some environmental, some completely random. Some mutations have physiological or psychological consequences, lots do not. This particular mutation in these fast whippets is inconsequential - they look and act completely normally.

As I said before, it is only by selectively breeding from them that you have a chance for a bully to be born. Bullies are not caused by DNA mutation, they are caused by selectively breeding from whippets with that mutated gene. There is a big difference.

I have taught Biology and Genetics for twelve years now, and it's still the case that students think 'mutation' and start thinking of Spiderman comics and fifty foot radioactive bugs      But in real life mutation happens on a huge scale every day, often with zero consequences. In nature it is only when mutations are advantageous to survival (ie: a black moth born to white parents is less likely to be eaten when sat on a black building) and then those mutated animals breed and pass on that code to their offspring that you notice any significant changes in a population.

Bullies are not made by mutation, they are made by breeding mutated parents.

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I wouldn't agree that those carrying a single allele of the mutation are aways normal looking although they are abnormal in a good way IYSWIM. I wouldn't agree that the mutation is inconsequential or that there is no effect in that they are abnormaly fast.

I would agree that selective breeding for the mutation is what is causing the bullies to be produced but this breeding does NOT appear to follow simple Mendolsonian genetics and nor would I say that the phenotypes of single and double mutated allele carrying individuals are distinctive for their genotype.

 

[Seraphina]

I wouldn't agree that those carrying a single allele of the mutation are aways normal looking although they are abnormal in a good way IYSWIM. I wouldn't agree that the mutation is inconsequential or that there is no effect in that they are abnormaly fast.I would agree that selective breeding for the mutation is what is causing the bullies to be produced but this breeding does NOT appear to follow simple Mendolsonian genetics and nor would I say that the phenotypes of single and double mutated allele carrying individuals are distinctive for their genotype.

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There seem to be some of difference between the bully whippets. Lets say Mac and this black dog. Mac has lot of muscle and his jaws looks bit snipey, but generally i would not be too concerned about his health. This black dog is carrying so much extra weight that I have to wonder how much stress is being put on his skeletal structure, as well as his heart, and possibly even other organs. According one article I read about the double mh dogs, lack of myostatin results in excessive muscle growth but impaired force generation. Cannot really think why would anybody think that this black dog would run fast. :unsure: