Champions Only ?

[*Mark*]

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I have seen the results published each year, ( I think Dawn posted them quite recently), of how many CC's individual dogs/bitches have won.  There usually seems to be quite a long list so it seems that the tickets are not continually being won by the same dogs.  Incidentally, how many tickets are available in Whippets each year?

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37 CC available in 2008

 

[Millie]

I voted yes for a Champions class, reason ............

A dog is a Champion on winning 3 CCs, he/she is no more a champion winning any more, he/she doesn't become a super Champ. :- "

Ask most multiple CC winners why they want to win............... its to get in the group, for higher things.

If we had a Champion class they could still win BOB but not take away the chance of winning the CC to all the other wonderful dogs out there !

Yes I have made up 5 Rough collie CHs, No Whippets, but have bred one that has two res. :thumbsup:

 

[quintessence]

I voted yes for a Champions class, reason ............
A dog is a Champion on winning 3 CCs, he/she is no more a champion winning  any more, he/she doesn't become a super Champ.  :- "

Ask most multiple CC winners why they want to win............... its to get in the group, for higher things.

If we had a Champion class they could still win BOB but not take away the chance of winning the CC to all the other wonderful dogs out there !

Yes I have made up 5 Rough collie CHs, No Whippets, but have bred one that has two res.  :thumbsup:

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At present a dog who wins 3 CC's is a Champion because he defeated all the other dogs of his sex on three separate occasions, under a different system you could have a dog who is a Champion but who has never won Best of Sex in his breed, having always been defeated by the winner of the Champion Class who happens to be the same sex.

 

[zafonic]

Having been there with a gsd winning 2 cc,s & 5 res cc,s,i have to agree with Maggie on this one,i think so many cc,s (maybe 3)should equate to a cc,but i think that a dog must have won a cc to become a champion  :thumbsup:

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I whole heartedly agree!! as long as a dog has at least one ticket and perhaps even two then an option to use 3 res cc's would be fair?? what do you think.

zafonic

 

[patsy]

Having been there with a gsd winning 2 cc,s & 5 res cc,s,i have to agree with Maggie on this one,i think so many cc,s (maybe 3)should equate to a cc,but i think that a dog must have won a cc to become a champion  :thumbsup:

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I whole heartedly agree!! as long as a dog has at least one ticket and perhaps even two then an option to use 3 res cc's would be fair?? what do you think.

zafonic

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If this happened the whole system would have to be changed, when you give out a R.C.C .you do sign that they are worthy of the title of Ch. in the event of the C.C. being disqualified.

 

[maggie217]

, when you give out a R.C.C .you do sign that they are worthy of the title of Ch. in the event of the C.C. being disqualified.

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It's exactly because of this that I think RCC's should go someway towards a dog being made up.

 

Pauline

 

[Vanna]

Now Mark, I will try my best, In a moment when I was very down I packed all my records away. Now being a pensioner the grey matter is dieing slightly.( no comments from you JAX )   the dog record was held for over twenty five years by Ch Robmaywin Stargazer of Allways and Ch Samarkands Greenbrae Tarragon they were both on 17 C.Cs.

The ones I am not clear on are Ch.Nimrodel Wanderer and his Son Ch WElstar Royal Mint, who both went on winning C.Cs from veteran and I think they did both hold the dog record for a time. The record was then taken by Ch. Tilegreen Tornado, but can not remember how many he got, and now the record holder,  is Ch Khabaray Single Malt at Dumbriton owned by myself and Sue Ross, on 36 or 38 not sure. I am sure though if the great Pencloe Dutch gold had been shown on he would have been a strong contender.

  In bitches, Ch Harque The Lark, Ch Dondelayo Roulette, then Ch Selinko Another Lady on 25 C.CsThen along came the lovely Ch Nutshell of Nevedith who broke all records with her groups and dog of the year all breeds,and she only wanted one point to win it for a second year but she did not take the  breed, so it can happen. That said I don't think that her record will ever be beaten. So there you have the winners not many spanning forty years.

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Cheers Patsy, but I'm not going to let you off that easily, 8)

These are the breed record holders over the past 40ish years and excellent examples of the breed they were.

However, it would be interesting to know during the rein of these record holders how many others were made up, if you take Ch Khabaray Single Malt at Dumbriton as an example I'm sure others were made up into champions?

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Well, I was campaigning a dog at the same time as Single Malt, just a few months younger, and I was able to make him up - it took a little time, partly because Patsy is so hard to beat in the ring and partly because I continued to course him because that was what I had bred him to do and he tore a gracilis muscle when I ran him after failing to notice that he had pulled it in other "country pursuits". So if a hopeless handler like me can win with a dog that is bred to course, not show, I doubt that any good dogs were prevented from getting their titles.

Gay

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Mark, that is a impossible task at least for me it would take hours, and I have just let my old books go to a good home, so have no chance of working back, sorry

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I'm not sure if my records are 100% accurate, but 7 other dogs were made up in 2002. I'm not sure how many were made up in 2001, but it was at least 3 others.

 

[Vanna]

If you are able to make up a champion while one of the "greats" is being campaigned, it somehow makes it even more special. I'm sure Gay feels that about her wins when Single Malt was in the ring, and I know how we felt when we made up Ch Ringmore Thief of Time. Not only was he an unusual colour, but he was also in the ring with both Dutch Gold and Tornado. Yes, it was frustrating waiting and hoping and getting yet another Res CC, but if he had won the CC, and then had Dutch or Tornado beat him from a Champions Class, it wouldn't have been as satisfying - he would still have been "second best" just as he was when he got a Rec CC.

 

[JAX]

The Challenge Certificate does NOT say its the BEST of that SEX ,or BOB

Just that the judge thinks that it is worthy of being a Champion :huggles:

 

[patsy]

The Challenge Certificate does NOT say its the BEST of that SEX ,or BOB
Just that the judge thinks that it is worthy of being a Champion :huggles:

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Have just noticed on the C.C. for Manchester, the new wording.

HAVING ASSESSED THE DOGS AND PENALISED ANY FEATURES OR EXAGGERATIONS WHICH I CONSIDER DETRIMENTAL TO THEIR SOUNDNESS, HEALTH OR WELFARE, IAM CLEARLY OF THE OPINION.......AS OLD WORDING.

No Jax it does not say on the certificate, but in guidelines to judges that the best of sex receives the C.C.

 

[T Hoare]

As I have not won a CC for a while, I looked on some I have ready for the end of this year. The sex is printed on them at the top.

 

[*Mark*]

The Challenge Certificate does NOT say its the BEST of that SEX ,or BOB
Just that the judge thinks that it is worthy of being a Champion :huggles:

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But if you took this to the extreme you could have 2,3,4 or more CC's for each sex at each show. Or just a point system like Europe.

I don't award CC's but how many times does the Judge say places could change, etc, etc, but on the day you place what you feel is the best dog or/and bitch.

What about the placings in the classes should you have 5 first just in case you think they all are worthy. 33+ placings for the big classes

We could end up giving CC's away like sausages to veterans.

 

[T Hoare]

Going of track slightly but I hear/read time and time again and with a little experience of my own :b . At champ shows some classes are so hotly contended that 5 prize cards are not enough. Some of said classes you could quite easily award 10 places. This does refer to whippets but i'm sure in some other breeds with large entries, the same might be said.

 

[anniewhippet]

Another point with regards RCC's, which goes against my first point about RCCsand before anyone kicks off this is not aimed at any dog or owner or kennel it is just a thought, but if a Whippet has won many RCC's and only one or two CC's over its time as a show dog which could be around eight years under many different judges of the breed then would this suggest that the dog is of very nice quality but has not got that little extra quality to become a Champion. After all it is highly unlikely that it has been beaten to the CC by the same dog all its show life.

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[SIZE=14pt]the breed record holder in whippets won something like 44 ccs or so. Spanning over maybe a few years. So it could be that during that time there were other whippets who may have been lucky enough on occassions to have won ccs, even some maybe gaining their titles? BUT how many others won maybe 1 or 2 ccs or even several rccs but never gained their actual title? just food for thought as in any breed like with Dobes once a dog amasses many ccs and is set for the breed record etc it is often near on impossible for other breed contestants to get passed it no matter how worthy they are.[/SIZE]

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Yes Nutshell won many CC's all under different Judges.

44 CC's over how many years?

We have around 30+ CC's available each year she wasn't at every show. It took a few years for her to accumulate this number as it did with the Dog CC holder.

Yes she stopped some good bitches but that’s showing it doesn’t make it wrong.

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I can remember being at one General Champ show where Nutshell and the then Top winning dog were being shown.

If I remember it Nutshell was thrown out of open bitch before the cut, and the then top winning dog Tilegreen Tornedo got reserve in open dog.

So only just shows that every dog has its day - and same can be said for the judge

I believe that every dog is there to be beaten - :thumbsup:

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Its the dog on the day.....if the judge honestly believes the ticket is deserved elsewhere that day, than so be it. The top winners merits are there to be seen & admired, after all alot of hard work must go into them to keep them in tip top show condition. And as said its not every show surely and every year, frustrating yes, but there to aim for.

 

[anniewhippet]

If you are able to make up a champion while one of the "greats" is being campaigned, it somehow makes it even more special.  I'm sure Gay feels that about her wins when Single Malt was in the ring, and I know how we felt when we made up Ch Ringmore Thief of Time.  Not only was he an unusual colour, but he was also in the ring with both Dutch Gold and Tornado.  Yes, it was frustrating waiting and hoping and getting yet another Res CC, but if he had won the CC, and then had Dutch or Tornado beat him from a Champions Class, it wouldn't have been as satisfying - he would still have been "second best" just as he was when he got a Rec CC.

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:thumbsup: Vanna I think you have just answered the voting question for those 'not sure', a good first hand experienced answer. :thumbsup:

 

[patsy]

The Challenge Certificate does NOT say its the BEST of that SEX ,or BOB
Just that the judge thinks that it is worthy of being a Champion :huggles:

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Have just noticed on the C.C. for Manchester, the new wording.

HAVING ASSESSED THE DOGS AND PENALISED ANY FEATURES OR EXAGGERATIONS WHICH I CONSIDER DETRIMENTAL TO THEIR SOUNDNESS, HEALTH OR WELFARE, IAM CLEARLY OF THE OPINION.......AS OLD WORDING.

No Jax it does not say on the certificate, but in guidelines to judges that the best of sex receives the C.C.

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Sorry missed a bit out, the sex is printed in the left hand corner, when you go BOB you are given the red one as well that says BOB on it

 

[anniewhippet]

Out of interest.......in 1989 when the lovely Nutshell was awarded 20 CC's, 14 more bitches won 17 CC's, with 3 of those bitches taking 2 CC's each, 2 of those already Champions & I made up in 1990.

 

And in 1990, when Nutshell took 16 CC's, 15 more bitches took 21 CC's between them, 4 of those taking 2 each and 1, the lovely Spider Orchid, taking 3 CC's.

I think my adding up is correct :blink: