Cheating?

[aslan]

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I think that rule exists in many countries but it seems hardly ever to be acted upon here. Although I have heard of top-winning dogs once or twice in my lifetime being asked to leave the ring because a judge didn't like what he found in the coat (which happened to be what they used all the time here - such as chalk/hairspray)

Australia is a lot like America in the grooming dept. Australians are crazy for it. Coated breeds are moussed, sprayed, powdered, chalked, etc. Smooth coats are cremed, chalked (black and white chalk) and shined (sprays, oils)

There is even a fairy dust product here (ie glitter) to put in the coat to make it extra sparkly! It's just overkill in my opinion.

And, what would happen to the multi-million dollar grooming product industry if these rules were ever strictly enforced. (w00t) Aye, there's the rub!

 

[neave]

I was at a dog show at the weekend and an owner was putting eye linner around her Westies eyes, i thought this was taking things a bit to far but it isnt going to sway the Judge to give it a higher placing cause its got dark eyes. I think these things do go on quite alot but how do you police it and if no one is going to report these things then it will just contiue to go on................. :thumbsup:

Ave also noticed when reading catalogues that some people enter themselves at the breeder of the dog even though there aren't, is there a rule against this?

 

[nina]

At the end of the day a dog show is like any beauty contest & a bit of chalk or talc to enhance a white marking is never going to change the anatomical construction or movement of an animal in any way.

Also as its not a fault to show a dog with dirty white markings, by cleaning the white up you are not trying to alter or hide a fault so really its neither here nor there.

Any experienced, knowledgeable judge should be looking for a correct typical example of the breed not how white their markings are or are not.

Just my opinion of course :thumbsup:

 

[Seraphina]

Of course they may not take into account the fact that what has been altered for showing purposes may genetically reproduce itself when the dog is bred! 
Lanny

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Do you mean the next generation may be born coated in talk? :lol:

 

[nina]

Of course they may not take into account the fact that what has been altered for showing purposes may genetically reproduce itself when the dog is bred! 

Lanny

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Do you mean the next generation may be born coated in talk? :lol:

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Or even coated in CHALK (w00t) :teehee:

 

[Seraphina]

Of course they may not take into account the fact that what has been altered for showing purposes may genetically reproduce itself when the dog is bred! 

Lanny

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Do you mean the next generation may be born coated in talk? :lol:

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Or even coated in CHALK (w00t) :teehee:

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Meant talc :lol: It is 2 am here, probably should go to bed... :b

 

[kris]

i can still rememberr the furore many years ago when the famous top winning poodle breeder was found to have black dye in her standard poodles coat. (w00t) now this dog was the top dog of all time.i was guarded day and night and never left alone.he was a black standard and as all people know who have black dogs you sometimes get a few white or grey hairs.so its quite common for exhibitors to dye them.welll anyway someone made a complaint about this famous dog and when tested he was found to have traces of black hair dye in his coat.but guess what the kennel club found at the disciplinary hearing?the owner (who dont forget never left this dog alone for a minute so valuable was he)said she hadnt dyed him so some person unknown must have done it. o and the kennel club agreed with her! (w00t) :lol:

so what she was saying (and what the kennel club agreed with her) was that someone must have sneaked into her house and shampooed the dog in the middle of the night and then dried him and put him back in his bed all ready for the show that morning and all done unbeknown to this famous breeder and her mum and dad and all the kennel staff too. :- " now if i was as good a burglar as that id not waste my time on a dog!id be casing the bloody bank of england! :lol:

 

[wilfred]

I remember that too, kris.

I also remember watching Crufts a couple of years or so back on TV, and the film showed someone applying black eye makeup (mascara I think) to their dog's eye to "help" with its pigment; this was around the benches.

Wouldn't you think that people would remember: you never know who's filming what at Crufts?? if it's not BBC cameras it's someone videoing stuff for themselves.

:- "

 

[kris]

well exactly!if youre going to cheat try not to let the world and his wife know about it. (w00t) im old enough to remember the terrier rings that used to be full of dogs with sand and sawdust in their coats to colour it and make it harsher.ive been at the side of the ring when a dog has shaken itself and promptly disappeared in a cloud of white dust :- " ive seen poodles with egg white in their top knots as well as hair spray.they used to sell shampoos at shows called black out and special coloured ones for apricot dogs and brown ones for brown dogs etc etc .dunno if these are still on sale? :blink: i heard a rumour many years ago about a particularly well known westie that had done a lot of winning and a friend in westies told me he had unpigmented toe nails so the owners painted them with black nail polish :- "

there always used to be some really good meaty scandals in poodles. like the 2 champion white standards who when mated produced a litter of blacks,or was it the other way around? :blink: anyway the bitches owner took the stud dogs owner to court and showed that it was a genetic impossibility so they were awarded damages as the bitches owner had left the bitch there to be mated and she was obviously mated to the wrong dog............... o

 

[05whippet]

well exactly!if youre going to cheat try not to let the world and his wife know about it. (w00t) im old enough to remember the terrier rings that used to be full of dogs with sand and sawdust in their coats to colour it and make it harsher.ive been at the side of the ring when a dog has shaken itself and promptly disappeared in a cloud of white dust :- " ive seen poodles with egg white in their top knots as well as hair spray.they used to sell shampoos at shows called black out and special coloured ones for apricot dogs and brown ones for brown dogs etc etc .dunno if these are still on sale? :blink: i heard a rumour many years ago about a particularly well known westie that had done a lot of winning and a friend in westies told me he had unpigmented toe nails so the owners painted them with black nail polish :- " there always used to be some really good meaty scandals in poodles. like the 2 champion white standards who  when mated produced a litter of blacks,or was it the other way around? :blink: anyway the bitches owner took the stud dogs owner to court and showed that it was a genetic impossibility so they were awarded damages as the bitches owner had left the bitch there  to be mated and she was obviously mated to the wrong dog............... o

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Some of those are real classics Kris!! :thumbsup: (w00t)

 

[nina]

Meant talc :lol: It is 2 am here, probably should go to bed... :b

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:lol: No wonder "talc" & "chalk" became "talk" if its 2am, maybe you are sleepwalking :lol: (w00t)

 

[oakmoorehill]

I know a woman who used to go to ring craft at the same place as me and she quite happily sprays hairspray on her poodles topnot .f you ask her it is only water but the topnot is rock hard .He alsohas a tiny white spot on his chest as one parent was black and one white so she pluckes the white hairs of his chest

I once had a black whippet who had a white spot on the top of his nose a scar from eating a marrow bone he kept sticking his nose in the end and marked his nose .It healed pink. Some one told me to put black lipstick on his nose to cover the scar

 

[ja jumper]

are we allowed to use chalk then? i have used it in past with the horses in show ring ? some people say yes it is allowed in the dog ring others say no it isnt? my whippet is all brindle so that wouldnt affect me but my ig lad has white legs and if the need ever arose to use chalk i would like to know if this was allowed or not?  :thumbsup:

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we use lots and lots of chalk on our horses to give them the look at me factor,when turning them out,you turn out to win,i dont think its cheating its making an effort

 

[posh totty]

are we allowed to use chalk then? i have used it in past with the horses in show ring ? some people say yes it is allowed in the dog ring others say no it isnt? my whippet is all brindle so that wouldnt affect me but my ig lad has white legs and if the need ever arose to use chalk i would like to know if this was allowed or not?  :thumbsup:

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we use lots and lots of chalk on our horses to give them the look at me factor,when turning them out,you turn out to win,i dont think its cheating its making an effort

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thats how i saw it with the horses, but this thread has made me think differently with the dogs, still havent had an answer as to if it is allowed or not in dog showing :thumbsup:

 

[kris]

the simple answer is no youre not!you arent allowed to use anything that alters the colour,texture or substance of a dogs coat.simpler not to use anything cos if say you won a ticket and bob and someone complained youd altered the colour of your dog and they took a sample and chalk/talc was found in it youd have the award taken away from you.im not sure about what disciplinary action could follow too. i used to use baby oil on my manchester terriers and dobermanns coats to make them shine and also painted their nails with clear nail varnish to make them sparkle and gleam,and ive even been known to use lip gloss on their noses to make them glisten.i know a few other tricks too but im not revealing any more of my trade sectrets. :- " youll have to wait till i write my best selling book on the dirty dog game!

 

[saraquele]

the simple answer is no youre not!you arent allowed to use anything that alters the colour,texture or substance of a dogs coat.simpler not to use anything cos if say you won a ticket and bob and someone complained youd altered the colour of your dog and they took a sample and chalk/talc was found in it youd have the award taken away from you.im not sure about what disciplinary action could follow too. i used to use baby oil on my manchester terriers and dobermanns coats   to make them shine and also painted their nails with clear nail varnish to make them sparkle and gleam,and ive even been known to use lip gloss on their noses to make them glisten.i know a few other tricks too but im not revealing any more of my trade sectrets. :- " youll have to wait till i write my best selling book on the dirty dog game!

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you naughty naughty woman Kris (w00t)

well i dont use chalk / talk for 2 reasons

1) i would end up coverd in it or not making any difference cos i dont know how to use it properly (w00t)

2) because i would be the one end up getting caught :sweating: just my luck

 

[beaker]

i've never used chalk on mine, though i was very tempted when my nearly all white dog got black permanent marker all over him the night before crufts :lol:

i wouldn't use it to enhance anything, thats just my choice,

I can however see me having to use talc on the legs of my puppy Amos,

he is the first of my boys that pee's up the back of his front legs, and if he does piddle up them before going into the ring, mopping them up with a tissue might not be enough.

drying them out properly with talc is surely more preferable than allowing a judge to get **** on their hands :x

 

[Vianne]

the simple answer is no youre not!you arent allowed to use anything that alters the colour,texture or substance of a dogs coat.simpler not to use anything cos if say you won a ticket and bob and someone complained youd altered the colour of your dog and they took a sample and chalk/talc was found in it youd have the award taken away from you.im not sure about what disciplinary action could follow too. i used to use baby oil on my manchester terriers and dobermanns coats  to make them shine and also painted their nails with clear nail varnish to make them sparkle and gleam,and ive even been known to use lip gloss on their noses to make them glisten.i know a few other tricks too but im not revealing any more of my trade sectrets. :- " youll have to wait till i write my best selling book on the dirty dog game!

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PMSL! :lol: :huggles:

 

[ladyp]

IN THE REGULATIONS.ANY OTHER SUBSTANCE (OTHER THAN WATER)WHICH MAY BE USED IN THE PREPARATION OF A DOG FOR EXHIBITION MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO REMAIN IN THE COAT OR ANY OTHER PART OF THE DOG AT TIME OF EXHIBITION. :- " :- " :- "

 

[maggie217]

Although the rules say there must be no substances in the coat when the dog is in the ring I still think that it should be okay to use talc or chalk as a cleaning agent. AS LONG AS IT IS ALL BRUSHED OUT. And that isn't a pointless exercise as the originator of this thread seems to think, it will help leave the skin & hair clean. And I definitely would not consider it cheating [although some enhancements, such as dyes and things which alter the colour/texture as used on some other breeds may be]. The purpose of chalking isn't to alter the colour or to fool the judge but to make the dog look as sparkingly clean and as good as he can.

It is entirely possible to bring dogs spotlessly clean to shows nowaday with car travel, but we often used to travel on buses, trains and even boats to get to shows. Even when bathed and setting out clean dogs often needed cleaning up a bit on arrival.

Even when showing horses the chalk should NOT be left in the coat.

Pauline