Crufts

[JudyN]

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It's that time of year again - my guilty pleasure. Is anyone else watching it?

I was so disappointed with the winner of the Utility class, a French Bulldog. The breed standard has been updated to read 'Well defined muzzle, that can clearly be viewed in profile, broad, deep and set back', but the Frenchie had no discernable muzzle that I could see. Crufts argue that it has passed the newly introduced respiratory test. It's good that they're testing (I belive this is optional this year but will become mandatory), but (a) as far as I could see, this dog didn't meet the breed standards so shouldn't have won, and (b) just because one dog doesn't have respiratory problems, that doesn't mean that this face profile is inherently healthy. Such a flat face has to be a health risk, regardless of whether some dogs are able to be healthy.

What is the problem with breeding Frenchies with slightly longer muzzles, which is how they used to look in the past? It makes no sense to me at all.

 

[Hemlock]

I don't watch and even if we did have TV I probably wouldn't, but I agree 100% with your words. Would be so easy to breed dogs with proper muzzles in all the flat-faced breeds.

 

[JoanneF]

Definitely agree with what you said, it was a real disappointment.

I prefer watching the agility, heelwork, flyball and demonstration teams. When I attended the show a few years ago I watched very little of the showing, just a few of the Scottish Terriers because the friend I was with was interested in those.

There's only so much you can watch of dogs walking round in a circle.

 

[eggr675850]

It's that time of year again - my guilty pleasure. Is anyone else watching it?

I was so disappointed with the winner of the Utility class, a French Bulldog. The breed standard has been updated to read 'Well defined muzzle, that can clearly be viewed in profile, broad, deep and set back', but the Frenchie had no discernable muzzle that I could see. Crufts argue that it has passed the newly introduced respiratory test. It's good that they're testing (I belive this is optional this year but will become mandatory), but (a) as far as I could see, this dog didn't meet the breed standards so shouldn't have won, and (b) just because one dog doesn't have respiratory problems, that doesn't mean that this face profile is inherently healthy. Such a flat face has to be a health risk, regardless of whether some dogs are able to be healthy.

What is the problem with breeding Frenchies with slightly longer muzzles, which is how they used to look in the past? It makes no sense to me at all.

I went off Crufts after a visit a couple of years ago where I met a French bull dog breeder. Whole thing did not sit right with me at all. I enjoyed the police displays and service dogs demos though, and fly ball! so I watch a bit. I agree with your point on Frenchies.

 

[Flobo]

I'm personally not a fan of Crufts...
I've worked with about 3 Frenchies over the years, all rescues and all struggled. One has since had the surgery to open up his airways, he is breathing better, but just even noisier now! A small price to pay for him being more comfortable.
The RSPCA actually do a really good info sheet on brachycephalic breeds, they talk about the breathing problems, spinal problems, eye problems etc that they are prone to. I really wish people would read things like this before breeding or buying these poor dogs They do still seem to be a popular breed to have sadly... and as said above, why not just breed them with a proper muzzle, I don't get it...in this day and age are we all still so shallow and uninformed that we desire a dog because of how they look!
(sorry always get a bit triggered re crufts...)

 

[JudyN]

I do enjoy watching the showing we get to see on telly - apart from the bits where I'm venting about the brachy dogs and waddling labs of course. Oh, and the GSDs with sloping backs and the show greyhounds...

I wouldn't mind watching some of the breed judging, but only for a very few breeds. I could probably watch salukis walk round till the cows come home. Ooh, saluki agility, that could be a thing! Think of the chaos!!

But yes, Crufts is a very guilty pleasure as there are so many things about it that are just plain wrong.

 

[eggr675850]

I'm personally not a fan of Crufts...
I've worked with about 3 Frenchies over the years, all rescues and all struggled. One has since had the surgery to open up his airways, he is breathing better, but just even noisier now! A small price to pay for him being more comfortable.
The RSPCA actually do a really good info sheet on brachycephalic breeds, they talk about the breathing problems, spinal problems, eye problems etc that they are prone to. I really wish people would read things like this before breeding or buying these poor dogs They do still seem to be a popular breed to have sadly... and as said above, why not just breed them with a proper muzzle, I don't get it...in this day and age are we all still so shallow and uninformed that we desire a dog because of how they look!
(sorry always get a bit triggered re crufts...)

Flobo, That's how I came away feeling. I enjoyed the day but came away feeling it had all become very much about the money and looks. But then I am a right sucker for a rescue, so guess I'll always be that way!

 

[Whippylove]

I've been watching crufts, I actually look forward to it.
But yes I was disappointed with the Frenchie winning and to be honest very surprised.
Please don't take offence but I'm not a fan of these brachycephalic breeds I don't get them, the not being able to breathe and noise that comes out of them is sad. Why would you want a dog with such health problems?

Loved the Irish setter from last night beautiful dog

 

[Flobo]

Loved the Irish setter from last night beautiful dog

One of the loveliest dogs I worked with was a setter/collie, really beautiful nature, but sadly no longer with us...
Yes I should of added too, no offence meant to people who have Frenchies... oops!

 

[eggr675850]

One of the loveliest dogs I worked with was a setter/collie, really beautiful nature, but sadly no longer with us...
Yes I should of added too, no offence meant to people who have Frenchies... oops!

I love Frenchies and babysit one regularly for my friend. He's gorgeous!

 

[Mad Murphy]

I havent watched Crufts for many years since before it left the BBC.

I know its great to see such a huge array of dogs in one place and the heel work and agility is great fun but when I really get thinking I see people who often see their dog as a commodity the champion title meaning they are going to get more money for their sire or the pups their bitch produces.

We have been made aware of the serious health issues Frenchies have by all sorts of dog welfare organisations and yet a flat faced dog showing none of the recommeded improvements won so we all know what next years fashion in frenchies will be..
Its sad but I think time has come for Crufts to shape up or stop.

 

[JudyN]

I was hoping the GSD's back end would look more stable than past breed winners have done, but was disappointed. If we did do away with Crufts, there is the risk that breeders wouldn't feel the need to breed dogs that can pass the health tests Crufts have introduced, and the situation could get worse. But they could do so, so much more.

 

[Hemlock]

Ideally the judges need to come on-side, because the breeders create what the judges place. But IME most don't have a clue about conformational needs (including flat faces/tiny nostrils/drooling/misplaced teeth etc.) and go for exaggeration. It seems if a flat face is good, a flatter one is better. But as judges breed and breeders judge, I don't know where the education or incentive would come from.

I was a working lurcher judge for many years. The working lurcher and terrier shows are normally judged by people with a much more acute sense of Function Follows Form and Form Follows Function.

 

[arealhuman]

I just don't get Crufts. To me, it's just a load of pompous nonsense, but each to their own.

 

[JudyN]

I did rather well in the final judging - I reckoned the Australian shepherd had a good chance, but really hoped the adorable JRT would, and they ended up being respectively champion and reserve champion.

@arealhuman, I can absolutely understand that. Crufts and the KC do do some good in promoting good ownership and having some influence on breed health, but there's still a lot wrong with it, and with the whole idea of a dog 'beauty contest' which the dogs have to go through a lot for.

There was some discussion about the flat-faced Frenchie last night. The point was made that they can't just suddenly magic up a lot of pedigree Frenchies with prominent muzzles and the right entry qualifications, so the process of changing how they are bred can't happen overnight. It would be nice to think that within a few generations we will see much healthier dogs. Sadly, though, many people still think that Frenchies are meant to have flat faces and that this is desirable :-(

 

[Flobo]

I do get that you can't just change the appearance over night, but in my humble opinion they should stop showing these breeds altogether, until they are bred without these harmful health issues... not just Frenchies, all brachycephalic breeds, along with the sloping backs of GSD's etc.. The Kennel Club and Crufts have such a huge platform in the canine world they should be banging a very loud drum re promoting better health and not making poor excuses, imo.
This is an interesting article re the Netherlands Netherlands moves to ban pets suffering 'harmful' traits

 

[RGC]

I do get that you can't just change the appearance over night, but in my humble opinion they should stop showing these breeds altogether, until they are bred without these harmful health issues... not just Frenchies, all brachycephalic breeds, along with the sloping backs of GSD's etc.. The Kennel Club and Crufts have such a huge platform in the canine world they should be banging a very loud drum re promoting better health and not making poor excuses, imo.
This is an interesting article re the Netherlands Netherlands moves to ban pets suffering 'harmful' traits

Bravo Netherlands - big respect. The cosmetic v. health controversy really hacks me off. I remember a few years ago during the G.S.D. sloping back hiatus some lady Rhodesian ridgeback breeders saying that puppies with no ridges would be euthanised. When the interviewer asked how that could be justified the response was that it was ‘to protect the breed’. If this practice became illegal they ‘could always find a vet who’d oblige’. Once again, money before humanity. However, I loved the saluki, sloughi and pharaoh hound. That Jack Russell was a heart breaker.

 

[Mad Murphy]

Moonpig greeting cards said last year they would not be using images of pugs on their cards anymore because of the suffering of the dogs.

 

[JudyN]

When the interviewer asked how that could be justified the response was that it was ‘to protect the breed’. If this practice became illegal they ‘could always find a vet who’d oblige’.

That's disgraceful. I have a problem with the 'endangered breeds' bit too - trying to preserve a breed that people tend not to want to own doesn't benefit the dogs at all. The concept of a particular breed only has value for humans - individual dogs don't suffer by their breed becoming extinct (as long as people don't persist in breeding from a vanishingly small gene pool).

It'd be great if the UK would do something similar to the Netherlands.

 

[RGC]

Yes. Too true. I really have a problem with such heartless selfishness. I’m afraid my distaste goes beyond that. People that do not appreciate the responsibility of taking on a new life and their overuse of the first person singular whether it’s nominative or possessive on dog adoption telly programs. There, I’m sure I’m now branded as a self righteous prig.