Cryptorchid

[»Tina«]

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Hi all,

as you all know my gorgeous Parkstone Zacary Binx has been diagnosed with this, I've been doing a HUGE amount of research on this since, and just wanted to let potential whippet owners know that:

this is quite common with racing/lureing/coursing lines and some show lines too and IS on the increase,

when you go to purchase your pup, please make sure for yourself that he clearly has TWO desended tesicals, and ask if this trait is in your dogs breeding line,

even when you bring your pup home please check everyday that his testies are in the scrotum, as I have found out that Binx might have retained his out of a shock, (possible knock on the head by neighbours rotton kids) as I've been told he had them down in his scrotum at 8 weeks of age.

if you notice any of the testies have been 'sucked up' (retained) you can massage them down carefully, do this daily, (see below on how to do this),

Cryptorchid dogs should NEVER be allowed to breed, this is a well-documented genetic trait, passed on to future generations.

In addition, because of the potential for an increased incidence of torsion or cancer within the retained testicle/s, it is recommended that all of these individuals be neutered,

let's try to stamp this trait out, by NOT breeding from dogs with this condition!!!

The surgery to remove a retained testicle is more involved than a routine neuter, the veterinarian must literally hunt for the testicle, which may be located anywhere from the area around the kidney in the abdomen to the muscle near the groin.

I have opted to give Binx time to grow and mature before I even consider neutering him, also there is a possiblity that the testicals will desend, but he will never be bred from, because of this trait, also with retained testicals I will not be able to show him.

usefull links to other discussions:

click here

Click me

also here you will find out how to massage tesicals down thanks to Seraphina/Lida

If you can feel them, you should be able to try to massage them down. Get him really relaxed, lying on his back. Just feel gently along the shaft of his penis. It is not easy to describe. But if you find them they should move quite easily backwards to the scrotum. I have only done this on little pups, less than 8 weeks of age. When they get older and the testes bigger they may not be so easy to move.

With little puppies, who's testicles are moving freely up and down - you know one moment they are there next one is gone- I find the easiest way is to sit the puppy next to me on my left (I am right handed). Put my left arm around him, take his front legs (under his elbows) into my left hand and lift them up, so he sits up, and I press his body towards me by my left arm and elbow. Then I run fingers of my right hand over his abdomen gently massaging the testicle down. I am not sure if that would work on older dogs whos abdominal muscles are lot stronger than in little pups.

 

[Janimal]

Sorry about Binx Tina hope we will still see lots of him on K9 - hes gorgeous anyway. Does it cause him any concerns other than an op which is bad enough.

Good Luck with him :luck: :luck:

 

[»Tina«]

Thanks Janimal, No it doesn't cause him any problems what-so-even he's healthy 100% otherwise, and is growing normally, he's a treasure to own :wub:

 

[annlouise]

Hi all,
as you all know my gorgeous Parkstone Zacary Binx has been diagnosed with this, I've been doing a HUGE amount of research on this since, and just wanted to let potential whippet owners know that:

this is quite common with racing/lureing/coursing lines and some show lines too and IS on the increase,

when you go to purchase your pup, please make sure for yourself that he clearly has TWO desended tesicals, and ask if this trait is in your dogs breeding line,

even when you bring your pup home please check everyday that his testies are in the scrotum, as I have found out that Binx might have retained his out of a shock, (possible knock on the head by neighbours rotton kids) as I've been told he had them down in his scrotum at 8 weeks of age.

if you notice any of the testies have been 'sucked up' (retained) you can massage them down carefully, do this daily, (see below on how to do this),

Cryptorchid dogs should NEVER be allowed to breed, this is a well-documented genetic trait, passed on to future generations.

In addition, because of the potential for an increased incidence of torsion or cancer within the retained testicle/s, it is recommended that all of these individuals be neutered,

let's try to stamp this trait out, by NOT breeding from dogs with this condition!!!

The surgery to remove a retained testicle is more involved than a routine neuter, the veterinarian must literally hunt for the testicle, which may be located anywhere from the area around the kidney in the abdomen to the muscle near the groin.

I have opted to give Binx time to grow and mature before I even consider neutering him, also there is a possiblity that the testicals will desend, but he will never be bred from, because of this trait, also with retained testicals I will not be able to show him.

usefull links to other discussions:

click here

Click me

also here you will find out how to massage tesicals down thanks to Seraphina/Lida

If you can feel them, you should be able to try to massage them down. Get him really relaxed, lying on his back. Just feel gently along the shaft of his penis. It is not easy to describe. But if you find them they should move quite easily backwards to the scrotum. I have only done this on little pups, less than 8 weeks of age. When they get older and the testes bigger they may not be so easy to move.

With little puppies, who's testicles are moving freely up and down - you know one moment they are there next one is gone- I find the easiest way is to sit the puppy next to me on my left (I am right handed). Put my left arm around him, take his front legs (under his elbows) into my left hand and lift them up, so he sits up, and I press his body towards me by my left arm and elbow. Then I run fingers of my right hand over his abdomen gently massaging the testicle down. I am not sure if that would work on older dogs whos abdominal muscles are lot stronger than in little pups.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

hi i am sorry to hear bout Binx, this however made really intresting reading.

we had to have our boy done recently because he had only one. the vet explained the severe complications if we had not had it done, and, i found this to be most distressing. i had no choice but to prolong his life and have it done.

i am bitter however that he can never be a dad, altho of course, he is non the wiser.

he would have made a good father, and some very handsome pups.

does this mean then that all the boys in his litter would have had the same condition, and does it mean then that his father had the condition and passed it down?

because we were novices when we first got him, had we known what to do we would have most certainly have done this

i will certainly know for the future should we decide to do it all again,

thanks again, it did make good reading.

xxxxxxx

 

[annlouise]

Hi all,
as you all know my gorgeous Parkstone Zacary Binx has been diagnosed with this, I've been doing a HUGE amount of research on this since, and just wanted to let potential whippet owners know that:

this is quite common with racing/lureing/coursing lines and some show lines too and IS on the increase,

when you go to purchase your pup, please make sure for yourself that he clearly has TWO desended tesicals, and ask if this trait is in your dogs breeding line,

even when you bring your pup home please check everyday that his testies are in the scrotum, as I have found out that Binx might have retained his out of a shock, (possible knock on the head by neighbours rotton kids) as I've been told he had them down in his scrotum at 8 weeks of age.

if you notice any of the testies have been 'sucked up' (retained) you can massage them down carefully, do this daily, (see below on how to do this),

Cryptorchid dogs should NEVER be allowed to breed, this is a well-documented genetic trait, passed on to future generations.

In addition, because of the potential for an increased incidence of torsion or cancer within the retained testicle/s, it is recommended that all of these individuals be neutered,

let's try to stamp this trait out, by NOT breeding from dogs with this condition!!!

The surgery to remove a retained testicle is more involved than a routine neuter, the veterinarian must literally hunt for the testicle, which may be located anywhere from the area around the kidney in the abdomen to the muscle near the groin.

I have opted to give Binx time to grow and mature before I even consider neutering him, also there is a possiblity that the testicals will desend, but he will never be bred from, because of this trait, also with retained testicals I will not be able to show him.

usefull links to other discussions:

click here

Click me

also here you will find out how to massage tesicals down thanks to Seraphina/Lida

If you can feel them, you should be able to try to massage them down. Get him really relaxed, lying on his back. Just feel gently along the shaft of his penis. It is not easy to describe. But if you find them they should move quite easily backwards to the scrotum. I have only done this on little pups, less than 8 weeks of age. When they get older and the testes bigger they may not be so easy to move.

With little puppies, who's testicles are moving freely up and down - you know one moment they are there next one is gone- I find the easiest way is to sit the puppy next to me on my left (I am right handed). Put my left arm around him, take his front legs (under his elbows) into my left hand and lift them up, so he sits up, and I press his body towards me by my left arm and elbow. Then I run fingers of my right hand over his abdomen gently massaging the testicle down. I am not sure if that would work on older dogs whos abdominal muscles are lot stronger than in little pups.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

hi i am sorry to hear bout Binx, this however made really intresting reading.

we had to have our boy done recently because he had only one. the vet explained the severe complications if we had not had it done, and, i found this to be most distressing. i had no choice but to prolong his life and have it done.

i am bitter however that he can never be a dad, altho of course, he is non the wiser.

he would have made a good father, and some very handsome pups.

does this mean then that all the boys in his litter would have had the same condition, and does it mean then that his father had the condition and passed it down?

because we were novices when we first got him, had we known what to do we would have most certainly have done this

i will certainly know for the future should we decide to do it all again,

thanks again, it did make good reading.

xxxxxxx

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

the vet did say that the testicle could be anywhere from his groin upwards, luckily it was lying in his groin and things were very different to what they could have been

 

[»Tina«]

Hi annlouise,

sorry to hear about your dog too

''Since this is the most prevalent inherited disorder of the canine reproductive system,''

so it is possible that your dog's father was a carrier of this gene, and it's also very possible that his other siblings will have the same condition too.

 

[annlouise]

Hi annlouise,
sorry to hear about your dog too 

''Since this is the most prevalent inherited disorder of the canine reproductive system,''

so it is possible that your dog's father was a carrier of this gene, and it's also very possible that his other siblings will have the same condition too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

oh this is very sad

 

[»Tina«]

this gene trait is passed on to the bitch too, then down to the offspring

''If two normal-phenotype dogs actually carry the recessive gene, on an average one might expect 25 percent of the litter to show the condition. But since about half of each litter is female, the average would only be 12½ percent.''

 

[Ane]

My boy's a member of the one ball club too.. Three boys in the litter and the two others have none! I initally wanted to show him and I got the one where the vet found two. But the one just wouldn't stay (suppose I didn't do enough obedience? :lol: ) It's a bummer - but at least I get most of my money back.

As far as I've read it's a fairly big problem in Whippets - more than in most other breeds I know. And as stated above it's inherited down through both sexes so that it's not enough to know daddy hasn't got the problem.. You need to know a lot about the relatives basically...

The best thing would probably be to look for the gene - so that you can take a blood sample and say if the dog is a carrier. I actually think I read about this kind of a study starting up - maybe here in Norway actually. I'm sure there might be cases that are NOT inherited - but they should not be common and thus not cause much of a problem. If you know the gene, and it's reccesive you will have a much wider gene pool available for breeding as having carriers is not a real problem when they can be identified. You'll never mate a affected dog - but you can mate a carrier to one that's not carrying the gene to produce puppies that are not affected. Some of them might be carriers(statistically about 50%) - but if you test any dog planned to be bred you'll know if you need to mate to a dog without the gene or you might use a carrier. As carriers have no problems with it there is no harm in having the gene around as long as we never let it double and cause trouble. Oh.. bad rhyme :- "

Oh lol.. the genetics-girl got started (w00t)

 

[wild whippies]

I actually think all this would make an interesting study as many say that cryptochordism is prevelant in whippets, I'm curious as to how great the incidence is. I suspect that in the show world the incidence would be much lower due to the fact that winning dogs that are bred from would have to have the full monty as it were! :b But I know for example in non-ped racing this isn't a relevant attribute in a breed program as speed and composition are. I don't think refusing to breed cryptorchids would happen as these dogs may have such desirable attributes in other areas that people would be willing to own one regardless of possible future complications. The important thing I feel though is that potential owners are aware of the situation and can so make an informed decision. Unfortunately for you Tina, it seems you had a dog with both testicles descended and circumstances changed which is of course an unpredictable situation, but for obvious cryptorchids, I do think people should be 'in the know' as it were.

 

[lalena]

My boy's a member of the one ball club too..    Three boys in the litter and the two others have none! I initally wanted to show him and I got the one where the vet found two. But the one just wouldn't stay (suppose I didn't do enough obedience?    :lol: ) It's a bummer - but at least I get most of my money back.
As far as I've read it's a fairly big problem in Whippets - more than in most other breeds I know. And as stated above it's inherited down through both sexes so that it's not enough to know daddy hasn't got the problem.. You need to know a lot about the relatives basically...

The best thing would probably be to look for the gene - so that you can take a blood sample and say if the dog is a carrier.  I actually think I read about this kind of a study starting up - maybe here in Norway actually. I'm sure there might be cases that are NOT inherited - but they should not be common and thus not cause much of a problem. If you know the gene, and it's reccesive you will have a much wider gene pool available for breeding as having carriers is not a real problem when they can be identified. You'll never mate a affected dog - but you can mate a carrier to one that's not carrying the gene to produce puppies that are not affected. Some of them might be carriers(statistically about 50%) - but if you test any dog planned to be bred you'll know if you need to mate to a dog without the gene or you might use a carrier. As carriers have no problems with it there is no harm in having the gene around as long as we never let it double and cause trouble. Oh.. bad rhyme  :- "

Oh lol.. the genetics-girl got started  (w00t)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

is this a problem with grey hounds also? just wondering, as friends have dobes, and one of the foundation breeds of these are greyhounds...

 

[wild whippies]

Laleena, My Mum (Kris on here) used to breed and show Dobes for about 20 years she might be in the know of it's prevelancy in this breed. I don't recall it being particularly prevelant though?

 

[Strike Whippets]

This is a difficult thing to resolve really .........The racer's/working types are bred on their abilities, so you say don't use the lines with testicle problems, then I'm sorry but you've lost most of these lines ........as really any *relation* to a 1 or non testicalled (sp) dog shouldn't be bred from as it is in that "line" ...........As for there being any reasoning that this problem is less previlant in the show lines :unsure: .......I think you'll find that these dogs are the ones sold to *pet homes*, so they won't be seen in the show ring ........dosn't mean the problems lesser in these lines .........I must say though at the end of the day there are many, many lines being bred that are full of AI problems, but just cos the medication works or people are sparing with the truth, these dogs/lines are being bred from .........I know what i'd prefer .......a *maybe* testicle problem isn't life threatening ......an AI disease is ............but this is just my own opinion :b

 

[»Tina«]

I truely understand what your saying Hannah, I just want people who do choose a whippet pup to understand this problem and what they might be getting themselfs into, for example:

Binx will face a major operation in the future as a dog with both testies retained is sterile and will need to be neutured to lenghten his life, but I'm waiting for him to mature first so by the time he's approx 2 years old he will have to face this

second of all my showing/breeding of him, (that's if he done well), are all dashed now because of this, ok he will still be able to race but if he turns out to be a champion I'll never have the chance to have any of his offspring

Lalena, I don't think this is a major problem in Dobes, although I don't doubt it has happened within all breeds at some point, and I'm glad you got some compensation back from the breeder :thumbsup:

I've also phoned my vet up and asked about a pup retaining his testicals after a shock, he said it's not likely to happen, it's 100% in the parents genes,

anyone know any different?

p.s Hannah I too would rather a dog with one testies than a serious disease, but then again I'd rather two healthy testicals and NO gene trait to be passed on aswell.

 

[wild whippies]

As for there being any reasoning that this problem is less previlant in the show lines  :unsure: .......I think you'll find that these dogs are the ones sold to *pet homes*, so they won't be seen in the show ring ........dosn't mean the problems lesser in these lines .........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yeah I suspected that too but I felt that a dog from show lines is more likely to be bred from than a pet home, but of course this isn't always the case.

Totally agree with you on the AI diseases, I think genetic research is more important in these areas than cryptochordism but then again that issue isn't high on my personal list of concerns but I can understand to those where it is.

 

[05whippet]

Just a thought,but are'nt there enough dogs being bred today without adding to the problem by breeding off anything that has a ? hanging over it.

Don't mean to open a can of worms on this

This is only my lowly opinion :b

 

[Ane]

This is a difficult thing to resolve really .........The racer's/working types are bred on their abilities, so you say don't use the lines with testicle problems, then I'm sorry but you've lost most of these lines ........

Exactly - it's such a widespread problem that not using these lines will narrow the genepool to nothing/almost nothing. But if it's genetic and and we find the gene/loci we'd be able to avoid the problem by breeding sensibly. Just like they do with PRA in several breeds now.

Undecended testicles might not be the worst thing that can happen - but they are more disposed to have cancer, hormonal problems an behaviour problems(hormone related) and if we can prevent dogs and owners from suffering from this it would be better. IMHO

 

[»Tina«]

if breeders can ween out this gene trait so more the better,

but I do strongly believe that new puppy owners SHOULD be told if this trait is thier pup's line and then they can have the option to buy or not,

at least then they will know the risks of a major op in the future with the pup, and how to massage the testies down to hopefully prevent the operation even happening.

 

[ILoveKettleChips]

The points made earlier about identifying the gene and being able to test for it are good ones. However, the recent issue of scrapie-testing sheep involves a similar test and guess what ...? Yep, all the worst affected sheep are the best, most valuable ones :teehee:

 

[Ane]

The good thing with identifying the gene and finding carriers and those that are free is that you can still USE the carriers for breeding - you just have to mate them to someone that's not a carrier.

And yes - I agree that a puppy buyer should know about this problem and what to do. My breeder did tell me they were not properly in place at the time of phurchase - that he was the only one the vet found both in (and both she and I could find - and still do find - both.) But massaging didn't do the trick unfortunately - it kept bouncing back up shortly after every time. And at 18months I've certainly given up. :blink: