Dog attacks on people?

[Goldens4ever]

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Hi all, hope im posting in the right place.

I unfortunately witnessed a dog attack today on my street , i was inside and outside my home is a cul de sac across and inbetween the rows of houses in the cul de sac is a medium sized field that the kids play on. I was in my front garden ( which is fenced) doing the garden and i was facing the kids and was watching them play and enjoy themselves while doing my gardening when i saw a pitbull (owner admitted it was a pit) walking down the road no owner in sight and as soon as he saw the kids he ran over to them and grabbed one of the kids and was just shaking him lime he was a toy the others ran away i ran inside to get a rope lead that i had and others were already there hitting the dog , pulling his legs up , pouring water ect, i know what i did was cruel but i wrapped it round the dogs throat and started to strangle the pit as he would not let go of the boy after i started to strangle him he let go and we got the boy out of there i then used the lead the drag him to my back garden which is fully secure and locked him in until the police came and took him .

I told the police what happened and they found who the dog belonged to and he has been arrested.

But reflecting on what happened im confused why he attacked you always here that dogs dont just attack and that theres always a reason but it really looked like as soon as he saw the kids he saw prey and wanted to kill them.

As i want to learn about behavior i wanted to ask why dogs attack people what are the reasons people talk about?

 

[Inka]

Often especially with children their play is excited, moving about/running around, high pitched voices and that can over excite some dogs into an attack

 

[Hemlock]

And if a dog has previously been tormented by children, it will generalise and be antagonistic to all of them. Lots of people let their children torment dogs and think it's funny. Internet is full of examples of that.

 

[Goldens4ever]

If a dog had been tormented by children why do they always go straight to attack when they see children why not just walk away?

Like yesterday this pit was across the road from the children and he was no were near them and as soon as he saw them he just went straight for them? At least with him i dont think he was tormented by kids as otherwise why not stay across the road and not go near the kids.

And im not just talking this incident but dog attacks in general even adults who are not screaming and are just walking down the road and a dog just runs to them and attacks them?

Im trying to understand these bull breeds more as its always pits or staffies who attack and they never let go they seem to attack different to other dogs and ive seen videos were pitbulls ect have been tazered and they still dont let go.

Is part of there origins being bred to kill in pits?

I would post links to videos ive seen to help understand what i mean and for someone to tell me what the dogs body language is saying but there upsetting and i dont want to get told off.

 

[Jack-Russell-Lover]

Wow what an awful thing to witness, well done for your quick thinking and you did what you had to do to get the dog off that poor child. Do you know if he/she's okay?

It's mad some of the things that happen, I've always thought there must be a reason for attacks but I've heard a few stories like this about dogs just running up to people and attacking.

 

[Goldens4ever]

Wow what an awful thing to witness, well done for your quick thinking and you did what you had to do to get the dog off that poor child. Do you know if he/she's okay?

It's mad some of the things that happen, I've always thought there must be a reason for attacks but I've heard a few stories like this about dogs just running up to people and attacking.

I dont know if hes ok his parents have not been home all night but im praying hes ok hes only 7.

Same i have always thought there is always a reason why they attack just like theres always a reason why they attack other dogs but that attack yesterday did not look like there was a reason at all other than to kill.

The pit was wagging his tail the whole time he was attacking the boy.

And after seeing a few vids online im starting to think that bull breeds especially pits it somtimes is due to there past as fighting dogs and maybe its still very much in there genes to kill

 

[JoanneF]

And after seeing a few vids online im starting to think that bull breeds especially pits it somtimes is due to there past as fighting dogs and maybe its still very much in there genes to

First, I'm sorry you experienced this, it must have been very frightening.

But I'm afraid statements like the one I quoted concern me. Yes, there are vicious Pits, but there is also a story doing the rounds right now of a vicious golden retriever. It can happen in any breed.

And it's this sort of sweeping judgement that has landed us with BSL that is not fit for purpose. Pit Bull dogs do have a fighting background, but with other dogs, not with people. And - being logical about it, if the dog wasn't able to recognise the handler as being someone not to poke holes in, it would be eliminated from the gene pool very fast. Similarly staffies - they were adopted as being the go-to dog for adolescents wanting to look hard, but a huge element of their popularity came from the fact they are generally consummate people-pleasers. Easy to handle. Loyal and affectionate.

And, other than predatory drift (which may well be what you observed) and rogue behaviour (which can occur in any breed) there is no evidence that a dog that has fought other dogs will attack humans. The 'it could be a child next' is nothing more than a sensationalist headline to sell tabloids. Especially if it is a Pittie, because people do love to breed-bash and it sells more copy.

Can ask, where did this happen - are you not in the UK?

 

[Goldens4ever]

First, I'm sorry you experienced this, it must have been very frightening.

But I'm afraid statements like the one I quoted concern me. Yes, there are vicious Pits, but there is also a story doing the rounds right now of a vicious golden retriever. It can happen in any breed.

And it's this sort of sweeping judgement that has landed us with BSL that is not fit for purpose. Pit Bull dogs do have a fighting background, but with other dogs, not with people. And - being logical about it, if the dog wasn't able to recognise the handler as being someone not to poke holes in, it would be eliminated from the gene pool very fast. Similarly staffies - they were adopted as being the go-to dog for adolescents wanting to look hard, but a huge element of their popularity came from the fact they are generally consummate people-pleasers. Easy to handle. Loyal and affectionate.

And, other than predatory drift (which may well be what you observed) and rogue behaviour (which can occur in any breed) there is no evidence that a dog that has fought other dogs will attack humans. The 'it could be a child next' is nothing more than a sensationalist headline to sell tabloids. Especially if it is a Pittie, because people do love to breed-bash and it sells more copy.

Can ask, where did this happen - are you not in the UK?

This is why im asking as i want to learn more on why this happens and not just to kids but to adults who are just walking down the road ect and then get attacked.

Im not against pits at all and i know its the owner at fault.

Yes im in the UK and there supposed to be banned but people still have them.

Do you have a link to the Golden retriever attack you mention as i cant find anything?

Can you explain more what you mean by predatory drift?

I really do want to learn what was going on inside that pits head to attack that boy i want to understamd from the dogs viewpoint so i can understand better.

For example ive seen a video online of a post man whowas attacked and no one could get the dog off it was not letting go for awhile and seemed happy to be attacking him it took awhile to get the dog off him and to escape and what i want to understand is why would he continue to attack the postman even if the postman is no longer on his property ect.

 

[JoanneF]

The golden retriever link -

People scared to walk dogs amid claims Golden Retriever terrorising local parks

Predatory drift is explained here -

What Is Predatory Drift in Dogs? (And How to Prevent It)

 

[Goldens4ever]

Thanks for the links.

On the Golden link it didnt come up on my search engine i do wonder if it was a Staffie ect it would be all over the internet.

The fact the Goldens owner laughs when after an attack tells me all i need to know clearly hes got no control over his dog and his Golden properly hasnt had any socialization or training ect.

On the predatory drift link- so the kids making a noise could have put the pit into predatory frift so i understand that but what if theres no noise could a dog still go into predatory drift if theres no noise to set them off? The artical mentions a dog squealing can be enough but what about dogs who attack adults for example who have not made a noise ect and are minding there own business and then a dog just runs over and attacks?

I know the artical said a bit on how to prevent it with small dogs by not letting large dogs play with little ones but what about preventing it in other situations like when kids are playing and making noise ect?

I dont blame the pit for yesterdays attack by the way i blame his owner as the dog should be in the yard on his own if he can escape.

 

[Inka]

If a dog had been tormented by children why do they always go straight to attack when they see children why not just walk away?

That comes down to the individual dogs personality (same with people) 'fight(bark, snarl, attack), flight( run off/hide/avoid), freeze( stand/sit still ) or 'fool around' (grab or over mouth a toy/roll around/ join in but they are still anxious and can lead to another response)' when faced with something that creates anxiety

 

[JoanneF]

the kids making a noise could have put the pit into predatory frift so i understand that but what if theres no noise could a dog still go into predatory drift if theres no noise to set them off

Yes, as I understand it, movement can be a trigger too.

what about dogs who attack adults for example who have not made a noise ect and are minding there own business and then a dog just runs over and attacks

I think it is important to remember these situations are very uncommon. You just don’t hear about all the dogs that go through life *not attacking*. In your postman example, perhaps something triggered the dog’s memory - another person in uniform may have been unkind. Who knows.

his Golden properly hasnt had any socialization or training ect

I’m not saying you are wrong, but socialising a dog is NOT just about it learning to play nicely with other dogs and people.

 

[Goldens4ever]

I put predatory drift into google to learn more and this on another forum was the first thing to come up. https://positively.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13512&sid=5e368523c6b080ad0125f0dca6882c5d&start=30

I spent a bit of time looking at the forum and it seem the member called nettle is very highly regarded and knowledgeable on the forum and i spoted a few members there that are here like @JudyN and @JacksDad

Very interesting read and if ive read it correctly then nettle is saying that its not to do with prey its more to do with dogs fighting and on the last page she does say in reference to a pit attack

"Ref. the park/pitbull incident, we must never forget that certain breeds are genetically programmed to kill other dogs, and while such dogs can go their whole lives never knowing they have that trait, once the switch is thrown there is no going back"

 

[JudyN]

Yep, you can trust anything posted on that forum by Nettle, she knows her stuff If you saw the difference between Jasper kicking off when he spotted a cat, and his behaviour when he saw a rabbit or deer, you'd understand just how different prey drive is from aggression.

Every different case of dog aggression has different causes, and we really can't dissect what happened in an individual case without a lot of knowledge, or a video we could watch slow-mo. But some dogs have probably learnt that attack is the best form of defence - get in quick, make yourself look big and strong.

 

[Goldens4ever]

Yep, you can trust anything posted on that forum by Nettle, she knows her stuff If you saw the difference between Jasper kicking off when he spotted a cat, and his behaviour when he saw a rabbit or deer, you'd understand just how different prey drive is from aggression.

Every different case of dog aggression has different causes, and we really can't dissect what happened in an individual case without a lot of knowledge, or a video we could watch slow-mo. But some dogs have probably learnt that attack is the best form of defence - get in quick, make yourself look big and strong.

Thanks judy , shame nettles not here she seems a very knowledgeable person and the way she writes about behaviour was easy for me to understand.

Did i understand correctly Judy that she was saying that Predatory drift is not what people think it is and its nothing to do with Prey drive?

I also found it interesting that she said pretty much what i was thinking of with pits that maybe with some it is to do with them being bred to kill other dogs years ago i know that doesnt explain attacks on people but it does on dogs and i still feel that dogs bred to kill other dogs coukd be a reason like nettle explained on that forum

 

[JoanneF]

I see prey drive is more like a conscious choice on the dog’s part. He is genetically wired to chase and hunt prey, but he knows what he is doing. As I understand it, predatory drift is where a red mist comes down, the dog loses sight of what is actually the prey and reacts on pure instinct.

I think it is a little bit like where a dog redirects a bite on to the owner. The urge to bite is so powerful, but the subject of the behaviour becomes confused.

 

[Goldens4ever]

There is a link of a Rottweiler attack that show the kind of attack im talking about i wont post it but if your ok to watch it to help explain what happened then PM me and then reply back here.

You do see what the rottie was doing before the attack and i was confused of what happened to make him attack as i did not see anything to cause the attack

 

[Inka]

For example ive seen a video online of a post man whowas attacked and no one could get the dog off it was not letting go for awhile and seemed happy to be attacking him it took awhile to get the dog off him and to escape and what i want to understand is why would he continue to attack the postman even if the postman is no longer on his property ect.

Postmen being attacked is a terriorty/possession guarding issue, dog sees postman , barks as a warning for the postman to leave, he/she posts the letters which has the postmans smell on them so in the dogs eye the 'postman' has invaded inside the house, which often esculates the dogs behaviour, however the dog also sees that its behaviour/barking makes the postman leave...some dogs if they have inside access to the mail will attack the mail, jump up and attack the letter box... however in the dogs mind they are 'defending' their space, barking to warn them to leave and they leave, so the dog thinks what it does 'works' but if that same dog comes face to face with the postman they do the same to the postman that they did to the posted mail and that is when the nip/attack happens............ which is why when someone gets a dog it is important to stop possession guarding and put the training in so postman, delivery people, binmen are not seen as the invading enermy to be attacked.

In all these situations it is the dog who suffers in the end and can end with being PTS because the owner didn't secure them properly, or didn't put them on a lead or train them.

 

[Jack-Russell-Lover]

That Goldie story is shocking, those owners are awful for standing back and letting it all happen, it's like they're proud of it
I agree with @JoanneF - it can happen in any breed, and can have many underlying causes - like the Goldie story proves, owners a lot of the time are the issue.

 

[Goldens4ever]

Postmen being attacked is a terriorty/possession guarding issue, dog sees postman , barks as a warning for the postman to leave, he/she posts the letters which has the postmans smell on them so in the dogs eye the 'postman' has invaded inside the house, which often esculates the dogs behaviour, however the dog also sees that its behaviour/barking makes the postman leave...some dogs if they have inside access to the mail will attack the mail, jump up and attack the letter box... however in the dogs mind they are 'defending' their space, barking to warn them to leave and they leave, so the dog thinks what it does 'works' but if that same dog comes face to face with the postman they do the same to the postman that they did to the posted mail and that is when the nip/attack happens............ which is why when someone gets a dog it is important to stop possession guarding and put the training in so postman, delivery people, binmen are not seen as the invading enermy to be attacked.

In all these situations it is the dog who suffers in the end and can end with being PTS because the owner didn't secure them properly, or didn't put them on a lead or train them.

Ok that makes sense it might appear that theres no reason to attack especially if the postman is NO longer on there property but the postman will smell of the post so they attack due to smell that i can understand.

But the rottweiler attack makes no sense at all to me but i know i coukd be missing somthing that more experienced people may see in the video that im not seeing