Dog food

[carol28]

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Advice needed regarding dog food please
I have been advised by the vet to put my dog on gastrointestinal low fat dog food. The vet recommended Royal Canin.
Nala’s a bearded collie aged 7.

Any advice would be vey much appreciated.

 

[JudyN]

Why did your dog recommend this food? Does Nala have specific digestive issues?

 

[excuseme]

Royal Canin is a very poor quality food.
Our vets are not "nutritionists". They have no dietary qualifications and have very little training about nutritional needs.
I wonder if your vet sells Royal Canin from his practice
I have attached a very interesting article for you or anyone else to read.

Myths About Raw: Is my vet really qualified to be giving nutritional advice?

..

 

[excuseme]

More information about "Nala" and pictures always appreciated

 

[carol28]

More information about "Nala" and pictures always appreciated

Nalas blood results came back with high cholesterol high fat in blood and querying pancreatitis. She’s been given antibiotic for Lyme’s as a precaution. Due to her sudden on set of lameness. She’s had quite a few ticks recently. Nala also needs to lose a bit of weight. Yes he does sell royal canin.
If you ask pets at home for advice they try and sell their brand.

 

[Tinytom]

When you read whats in Royal canin food it makes your hair curl...
Sid was on satiety for a while for his weight but when i found out what was in it i stopped. ..it has a hormone in it to make the brain think it is full
I quickly switched him back to raw with plenty of veggies

 

[JudyN]

If the aim of the diet is purely to lose weight, then there are much better options than RC - simply feeding less, for a start. But as there is a question mark over Nala's health generally, we really cannot recommend an alternative diet - she may have specific dietary needs.

I would ask your vet if they are simply trying to reduce fat/calorie intake and whether they are happy for you to research/try other foods that would achieve this.

Watch out for treats & leftovers with high fat content too.

 

[Inka]

Royal Canin is a very poor quality food.
Our vets are not "nutritionists". They have no dietary qualifications and have very little training about nutritional needs.
I wonder if your vet sells Royal Canin from his practice
I have attached a very interesting article for you or anyone else to read.

Myths About Raw: Is my vet really qualified to be giving nutritional advice?

..

Totally agree, 99% of Vets only know what they are told by the RC sales rep who supplies them and of course it provides the vets with a very good turnover by promoting RC to their clients ( unless the vet has spent another two years studying animal nutrition)...and I have to say the only thing that the sales reps know ( in the main) is more sales means more commission for them, they are not trained animal nutritionists either... most now will have done the six week Royal Canin 'animal nutritionist' company certified course also offered to vet techs so they can hang their certificte on the wall at the vets to lull a sense of false security on vet clients that they are educated professionals....

 

[Finsky]

I've had two dogs with sudden appearance of pancreatitis and each time we were recommended to put our dogs on Royal Canin diet. I know it is basically rubbish.....BUT it is quite attractive 'rubbish' if you dog is not very willing to eat much. That can be case if they've had tummy pains as they quickly associate the pain with eating. I only bought few cans of the stuff, just to get the dogs to eat again and then soon starting to blend it with low fat raw meat mince with added slightly cooked veg as 'carbohydrates' ( slightly cooked because it make digestion easier). The recommendation was also to avoid big meals as digestion already a challenge, so few smaller meals are easier for the tummy.
AND I started to give some digestive enzymes after each meal too. After couple of weeks, as the dog started to feel much better I reduced the enzymes just once a day and same time giving slightly larger and fewer meals.
While this was going on our dogs were having anti-inflammatory/ painkiller medicine once a day for couple of weeks and after that 'as needed'.
With each dog it took about 3-4 weeks to get back their normal selves again. BUT....I will have to be careful with their diet rest of their lives as too rich food and too big meals can potentially bring the pancreatitis on again.
I bought ordinary & plain human 'digestive enzymes' that have the same 3 enzymes as animal one's have, but the human ones are much cheaper.
I also find that raw fat is easier to digest than cooked one in a meat, hence I try to avoid cooked meat as much as possible, but because our dogs can be 'funny' eaters...sometimes I do have to tempt them to eat their dinner with little added temptation of warm and nice smelling meat , but if I do that it will have to be very low fat meat and only quickly 'warmed up' rather than thorough browning on a pan Other than that they now eat 'normal' food but I keep eye on that their fat intake is not to much so any rich meats like lamb is given in small quantities blended with something like chicken mince (with minced bone) that tends to be quite low on fat. During the recovery period, I aimed to keep their food fat content bellow 10% and now they tend to get around 15-20% as standard. If they occasional do get richer meal, I still give enzyme tablet to accompany it...for 'just in case'
Our oldest one has been without any symptoms for over 2 years now...and the second one had it earlier this year after enjoying eating our pup's rich food...but she soon got over it and it has not repeated since...so far so good.....

 

[Finsky]

Nalas blood results came back with high cholesterol high fat in blood and querying pancreatitis. She’s been given antibiotic for Lyme’s as a precaution. Due to her sudden on set of lameness. She’s had quite a few ticks recently. Nala also needs to lose a bit of weight. Yes he does sell royal canin.
If you ask pets at home for advice they try and sell their brand.

If you are not one for feeding her with raw, you could quite easily make your own cooked and much healthier version of 'Canin' using skinless chicken/chicken or turkey mince and little liver to make food smell and taste tempting. You can also cook carrot or sweet potato and blend it all together. You food might not have all the 'chemical addition' that the tin food has but it is not a bad thing.
Poultry meat is generally quite easily digested so it is good protein starter option for early days of recovery. After a week or two you could slowly add low fat beef or white fish. Natures menu has lot of different plain mince option, some with minced bone and other without. You can mix and match them to get your dog's poo to right 'firmness'...if too loose, add more the meat containing minced bone. Those minces are meant for raw feeding but nothing stops you giving them quick cook over or maybe blending with meat that you get from your supermarket/shop.
But feeding raw is something I would encourage you to try...at least partially raw to start with to see if it agrees with your girl. It might make her more satisfied with her food so she doesn't need or want to eat too much....she could loose some weight by just doing that change!

 

[Inka]

Dog food........ my advice is raw/bone BUT you need to research it properly before you feed it and there are lots of good quality advice ( on here) and online but do not get sucked into dog food company selling websites you need muscle meat, organs and calcium (bone/egg shells) fish and occassional baked potato/sweet potato/cooked greens like cauli/cabbage.
Dogs fed raw is a natural diet and you have control over everything you give and you need to source quality food, it takes a very short time to absorb the food nutrients and very little waste to pick up as you are feeding what their body needs.
It is never recommended to mix feed raw/cooked/kibble, make your choice and stick to it simply as kibble takes twice as long to break down and go through the dogs gut as raw does so all you will be doing is creating stomach issues for your dog.
If you decide to feed kibble then again research first and not with dog food sales reps, pet shop sale assistants or vets if I was forced to feed kibble I would be looking at Orijen and as for losing weight feed in the morning so the dog can use up the caleries during day time hours and two thirds what you feed now and up the exercise...same with putting on weight split the meals into smaller ones even feeding the same amount will put weight on the dog without feeding additional stodge/fillers

Also make food a 'job' so the dog earns its food, so a stuffed kong daily rather than a filled bowl, a hard boiled egg and roll it so the shell cracks and give the whole egg shell and all to the dog, beef rib bones from your local butcher ...this makes food fun, it works and earns its food, that builds confidence in the dog and take time to get...no more 'treats' espeically commercially made ones they are full of fat and other rubbish... a raw carrot is a great 'treat'
or toy and if you have trained your dog that treats are normal then chop it up and dry bake some liver and use ONE piece for the whole time you train only giving it at the end of the session, dogs will work harder to achieve if not free fed treats...so a smell or a lick but kept tighly in your hand will keep your dog achieving any training in their attempt to get the treat.

 

[JudyN]

It is never recommended to mix feed raw/cooked/kibble, make your choice and stick to it simply as kibble takes twice as long to break down and go through the dogs gut as raw does so all you will be doing is creating stomach issues for your dog.

This is one thing I would disagree with - I know it's often said you shouldn't mix raw and kibble, but plenty of people do and I've never heard of anyone have a problem. I've also seen one bit of research (admittedly just one one dog) where the kibble passed through the dog faster than the raw meat...

But of course, it really is an area where if you ask 10 different raw feeders you'll get (at least) 10 different answers.

 

[Inka]

Dogs guts are naturally acidic (about ph 2 )which is why raw/bones are digested/broken down very quickly and also because it is acidic ( and short) it kills off 'bugs' that would make us human ill like salmonella etc kibble fed dogs have a more alkaline gut, so if you have a dog that has a senstive stomach and/or you are mix feeding some of those bugs could potentially survive and cause an issue or a less optimum acidity in breaking down and if that is bones that can cause issues.

Dogs as we all know are opportunists and can eat all sorts of junk, bin raid, plate lick, help themselves to whatever is left around including getting into the cats litter tray ....yuck! So as said 'I would recommend' As keeping an ph2 acidity is healthier for them.... and for you when picking up!

 

[Finsky]

Dogs guts are naturally acidic (about ph 2 )which is why raw/bones are digested/broken down very quickly and also because it is acidic ( and short) it kills off 'bugs' that would make us human ill like salmonella etc kibble fed dogs have a more alkaline gut, so if you have a dog that has a senstive stomach and/or you are mix feeding some of those bugs could potentially survive and cause an issue or a less optimum acidity in breaking down and if that is bones that can cause issues.

Dogs as we all know are opportunists and can eat all sorts of junk, bin raid, plate lick, help themselves to whatever is left around including getting into the cats litter tray ....yuck! So as said 'I would recommend' As keeping an ph2 acidity is healthier for them.... and for you when picking up!

According the original poster, Carol's dog is showing possible pancreatic function issues not food sensitivity... digestion is being compromised for some extent. Until the pancreatic function readings normalize it is important the offered food is as easily digesteable as possible...hence even some types of raw veg can cause issues.

 

[Hemlock]

If OP can get rabbit meat, it is very low fat, especially wild rabbit. But not rabbit from China. Maybe befriend a ferreter, who probably has a freezer full. It shouldn't be the only protein source though, as it is deficient in some nutrients.

 

[Inka]

According the original poster, Carol's dog is showing possible pancreatic function issues not food sensitivity... digestion is being compromised for some extent. Until the pancreatic function readings normalize it is important the offered food is as easily digesteable as possible...hence even some types of raw veg can cause issues.

The pancreas produces enzymes that help digestion and hormones that help regulate the way the body processes sugar (glucose), so food eaten and pancreas function go hand in hand

 

[melb100]

@carol28 I hope your dog is feeling better.

Thanks everyone for interesting thread. I had no idea vets get money to sell certain types of food. Aggie was recommend some RC "gastrointestinal" when she wouldnt eat and as someone posted above we used it to get her to eat something and then mix in with other stuff and fair play it worked. But I always assumed that RC was recommended based on impartial advice!! Surely vet should be forced to say when they are contracted to promote specific brand, like people have to declare when they're being paid to promote something on social media.

 

[JoanneF]

But I always assumed that RC was recommended based on impartial advice!!

Not always I'm afraid, although the gastro food is certainly developed to be easy to digest, and some dogs really do need things like the hydrolysed protein foods.

At the end of the day, vets are trained in (and are very good at) diagnosing and fixing health problems. But they are not nutritionists or behaviourists.

 

[excuseme]

As mentioned by @JoanneF

At the end of the day, vets are trained in (and are very good at) diagnosing and fixing health problems. But they are not nutritionists or behaviourists.

 

[Inka]

Thanks everyone for interesting thread. I had no idea vets get money to sell certain types of food. Aggie was recommend some RC "gastrointestinal" when she wouldnt eat and as someone posted above we used it to get her to eat something and then mix in with other stuff and fair play it worked. But I always assumed that RC was recommended based on impartial advice!! Surely vet should be forced to say when they are contracted to promote specific brand, like people have to declare when they're being paid to promote something on social media.

This gives you information about the Royal Canin/Vets relationship Royal Canin So RC sponsor courses, freebies given to Vet students, RC only tuiton 'days/events/web seminars' and 80% commission on products they sell to their clients, along with more freebies from the RC sales rep to achieve targets.