Electric Shock Collars

[rach125]

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Hi, i was just wondering if anyone has used/seen used/ or completley disagree with the use of these electric shock collars?I have the opportunity of a part time job in kennels, they look good are very clean and the dogs are out of the kennel most of the time. The only thing putting me off is the use of these collars. I was just wondering wat every one thinks of them?

 

[Evie]

Personally, I think they should be banned. If time cannot be taken to train a dog in a more respectful, less cruel manner, then they shouldn't have dogs. :rant:

 

[FeeFee]

Dreadful things, should be illegal IMO. Dogs can be seriously screwed up by these collars.

Are shock collars used routinely at this kennels? If so I find that very worrying - what sort of kennels is it, and why on earth are they using them?

 

[AnnSa]

I would dream of using one of these on any dog

 

[gutsey]

my partner has only ever used them once,he had a lurcher x saluki that as a pup was fine then got stubborn(saluki trade mark)he would not recall,he got hit by a car as he ran away,luckily he survived,tried all the nicey,nicey ways,no good,tried the collar for 2 weeks,dog came back first time everytime.so they do work.

 

[playawhile]

In Sweden they are not allowed to use and I find that correct, as these collars are horrible. Anyone using them should try them on themselves first….. Don’t you think??

Henrik Härling

 

[gutsey]

before he put it on the dog my partner did try it on himself,i had the pleasure of pressing the button for him,i dont agree with using them, but it saved my dogs life after other methods didn`t work.

 

[urchin]

Hi there Rach

It sounds like the kennels is using these collars routinely (as opposed to the odd exceptional circumstance after all other options have been exhausted) if this is the case I personally wouldnt want to be part of it.....why don't you ask them what their policy regarding the use of shock collars - and if you find its just 'the way they do things' tell them that you wouldnt want to work in such a place.

i would be devastated if a kennels ever used a shock collar on my boys - my own way of dealing with the 'life or death' unreliable recall issue is to not run them off the lead anywhere where they could get onto a road...it cuts down enormously on where we can exercise properly but i would much rather do this than shock them

 

[mally]

Personally, I think they should be banned.  If time cannot be taken to train a dog in a more respectful, less cruel manner, then they shouldn't have dogs.  :rant:

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Dreadful things, should be illegal IMO.  Dogs can be seriously screwed up by these collars.
Are shock collars used routinely at this kennels?  If so I find that very worrying - what sort of kennels is it, and why on earth are they using them?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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I would dream of using one of these on any dog 

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​

In Sweden they are not allowed to use and I find that correct, as these collars are horrible. Anyone using them should try them on themselves first….. Don’t you think??
Henrik Härling

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I Feel that alot of you have made these comments without having any experience with these electric collars. Until very recently i was in the same frame as mind as all of you.

I've had dogs since i was 12 years old and up until very recently(2 months ago) have never used these collars.

I train my dogs to a very high standard IMO it's every dog owners responsibility to do so. I've also trained other peoples dogs who were having problems with certain parts of there dogs training.

I was given an eight month old blue whippet pup (tess) back in October. Initially her training was going really well but just after christmas she started to go for a run about and would go deaf when i recalled her. I tried everything and i mean everything. It wasn't until she ran across a busy road that i decided it was either i got an electric TRAINING collar or i got her PTS, it was that serous as she could have caused a fatal road traffic accident when she ran across the road and i would have had to live with that for the rest of my life.

I ordered a proffesional training collar from PAC DOG When it arrived i charged both reciever and collar and then took Tess out for a walk wearing the collar. I let Tess off and she ran off straight away I shouted her twice before giving her the minimum shock, With the shock she stopped straightaway and returned to me. For the rest of the walk i never had to use the collar again. During that week i only had to give her one more shock. Now after just one week of wearing the collar she doesn't need it at all her response to recall is fantastic. I feel that it really has saved Tess's life as i couldn't have safely let her off the lead anywhere as she was. Now though she is great off the lead and is really responsive with recall and other commands.

I feel i must point out though that these collars sould only be used as a training aid not as a weapon to punish a dog. I only used the minimum intensity level that worked on Tess. I actually tested it on myself first just to see what it felt like as i didn't want to hurt her.

In the right hands these collars do work and IMO they have saved many dogs lifes.

Please remember it's our resonsibility as dog owners to train our dogs to a level thats acceptable. I wonder how many people reading this actually let there dogs off the lead for a good run everyday knowing there going to come back as soon as they are recalled.

People do jump on the band wagon when it comes to electric collars, i know i was one of them!!!!. However having used one as the last resort i know that it has saved my dog form a life of either never being off the lead(which i find not acceptable) or being PTS I'll let you decide wether if you were in the same situation as i was what you would do

 

[IanGerman]

Excellent reply Mally, and one I was going to make myself had you not done so.

Like most topics there are a number of conditions and exceptions. If boarding kennels are routinely putting anti-bark collars on dogs then that HAS to be wrong, but a remotely operated one to achieve a trained response is fine as I see things.

I have one, used it on myself to test first. It was bought as a last resort to stop my whippet Lisa from nobbling, at 5 years of age she had yet to be in a race as I couldn't clear her using all the usual methods/remedies.

However, Lisa is THE most intelligent whippet I have ever known and I swear she knew she would get zapped if she nobbled because from the very first time I trialled her with it on she ran clean! She had lots of runs with the collar on and eventually I crossed my fingers and removed it - never having had to press the button! She has been as good as gold ever since and is now in her final season but I still have the collar - maybe I can find an S&M club to sell it to :lol: :lol: (The East Anglian Whipping Club again!)

 

[beaker]

Personally, I think they should be banned.  If time cannot be taken to train a dog in a more respectful, less cruel manner, then they shouldn't have dogs.  :rant:

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​

Dreadful things, should be illegal IMO.  Dogs can be seriously screwed up by these collars.
Are shock collars used routinely at this kennels?  If so I find that very worrying - what sort of kennels is it, and why on earth are they using them?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I would dream of using one of these on any dog 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

In Sweden they are not allowed to use and I find that correct, as these collars are horrible. Anyone using them should try them on themselves first….. Don’t you think??
Henrik Härling

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I Feel that alot of you have made these comments without having any experience with these electric collars. Until very recently i was in the same frame as mind as all of you.

I've had dogs since i was 12 years old and up until very recently(2 months ago) have never used these collars.

I train my dogs to a very high standard IMO it's every dog owners responsibility to do so. I've also trained other peoples dogs who were having problems with certain parts of there dogs training.

I was given an eight month old blue whippet pup (tess) back in October. Initially her training was going really well but just after christmas she started to go for a run about and would go deaf when i recalled her. I tried everything and i mean everything. It wasn't until she ran across a busy road that i decided it was either i got an electric TRAINING collar or i got her PTS, it was that serous as she could have caused a fatal road traffic accident when she ran across the road and i would have had to live with that for the rest of my life.

I ordered a proffesional training collar from PAC DOG When it arrived i charged both reciever and collar and then took Tess out for a walk wearing the collar. I let Tess off and she ran off straight away I shouted her twice before giving her the minimum shock, With the shock she stopped straightaway and returned to me. For the rest of the walk i never had to use the collar again. During that week i only had to give her one more shock. Now after just one week of wearing the collar she doesn't need it at all her response to recall is fantastic. I feel that it really has saved Tess's life as i couldn't have safely let her off the lead anywhere as she was. Now though she is great off the lead and is really responsive with recall and other commands.

I feel i must point out though that these collars sould only be used as a training aid not as a weapon to punish a dog. I only used the minimum intensity level that worked on Tess. I actually tested it on myself first just to see what it felt like as i didn't want to hurt her.

In the right hands these collars do work and IMO they have saved many dogs lifes.

Please remember it's our resonsibility as dog owners to train our dogs to a level thats acceptable. I wonder how many people reading this actually let there dogs off the lead for a good run everyday knowing there going to come back as soon as they are recalled.

People do jump on the band wagon when it comes to electric collars, i know i was one of them!!!!. However having used one as the last resort i know that it has saved my dog form a life of either never being off the lead(which i find not acceptable) or being PTS I'll let you decide wether if you were in the same situation as i was what you would do

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a very informative point mally thanks :thumbsup:

i've owned 2 and helped train several labradors and 5 ESS's, trained two mal-adjusted GSD's and have now owned a total of 6 whippets, of all of these there is only one who i have been really tempted to resort to a collar on,(i've made idle threats to the others :- " ) i didn't nickname the dog in question 'devil' for nothing.

i can only exercise him in certain enclosed places, he caused major injury to my Ginni that needed surgery when he was younger so he couldn't run with other dogs for a long time, though i still have to keep him leashed till he has settled otherwise the second he is unclipped he is off and away :angry:

the tendancy to run off is not connected to the bitting, that is 100% down to the start he had and having to defend himself against adult dogs from a very early age. for this gentle socialisation has been key to overcome his nervous aggression, a collar would have exhaserbated it and he is now at a point where he can interact calmly with others.though he still gets slightly worried and tense if any of the others have an over-exhuberant rough and tumble in front of him.

the legging it problem is still there but is improving slowly, his recall in the first 25 yards is faultless if there are no distractions but you have to keep reading his body language every second of the walk and keep calling him back regularly for a treat to remind him you are still there. i've tried different methods with him but it is as if it just doesn't occur to him that he can't do as he pleases. this may be where a gentle reminder may be useful. despite him being difficult i love the little sod, but i would far prefer to use this collar than to loose him forever. i've no intentions at the moment of getting one of these collars but i wouldn't rule out the possibility if all else fails.

i do however think that they should be very very restricted in availability and strength, maybe only allowed to persons with full training and not just posted out with a video

 

[hely]

mmm interesting stuff, at first i would have thought no way would i use one, but then to see the positive side of them, knowing they could save your dog from injury or worse, i guess there not such a bad idea as a last resort, gypsy is so much better off lead now, but still has her moment s where she will totally ignore us and no amount of calling her will bring her back until she is ready :rant:

i think we will stick to the training we are doing now, but if all else fails maybe get some proper advice on these collars :thumbsup:

great information thanks guys :thumbsup:

 

[oldblueeye]

Knowing Mally personally and knowing what he thinks about his dogs and how much time and effort he puts into them, I was surprised to say the least when he told me he was considering using an electric collar. I was of the same opinion as a lot of you that theres no place for them in dog training, however after seeing Tess display the "i'm deaf" behaviour and knowing how many train tracks and main roads there is around Mally it was a case of drastic behaviour needs drastic measures FOR TESS'S OWN SAFETY.

I've since been out with mally and Tess for a walk, only a week after she'd had the collar on and the results were amasing.

Having said all that these devices are not for the inexperienced and should not be used as a punishment but as part of a good basic training procedure on difficult dogs.

Cheers

OBE.

 

[rach125]

Thank you ever so much for all the replys. I should have mentioned in my first post the use of these collars is only when owners have specifically asked her to help them with sheep worrying in their dogs. She will walk them and use the collar if they take off after sheep. I have decided to take a months trial with her and if I find that I dont like the way she runs things I will leave, and let her know why.

 

[playawhile]

I have seen trainers use electrical collars, as I did my military service in the air force here in Sweden as a dog handler. One of the dogs wanted to track animals instead of humans and this collar was used to "cure" this dog. I did not have the correct affect as this dog did not want to track anything afterwards. I still have not heard any reasons well enough as why to use these collars......

 

[playawhile]

PS. the air force doesn't have to apply to the same regulatiuons as the rest of the civil society here in Sweden in animal welfare laws and that is why they were allowed to use electrical collars.

 

[kita]

I have worked in kennels in the past. I would say to you that if you have any doubts in your mind I would not take the offer of the job.

I would never use one of these collars. I think I know the kennels you are talking about (are you in the Lake District?).

I do not understand why she would use the collars for sheep chasers. Even if it cures the dog from chasing sheep what then?

A farmer has the right to shoot any dog loose in a field among sheep. It does not have to be chasing the sheep. A farmer WILL NOT ask you to recall your dog, most will just shoot to kill.

Dogs should never be walked off lead in areas where there are sheep or other livestock. It is totally irrelevant to say whether they will recall or not.

I have known of a guy jogging with his husky round a local monument on a public footpath. The dog went out of sight round a corner ahead of him, by the time he turned the corner (literally a minute later) the dog had been shot. He rushed it to the vet but it died shortly after. The farmer was not even questioned by police.

I have read about other cases where the dog had been recalled and the farmer walked over and shot the dog dead - even though it was now on a lead.

I think this lady is making a mistake in telling owners she can cure sheep chasers and she is making them feel it is OK to walk their dogs loose on the fells.

Years ago I read of a BC who was a highly trained search and rescue dog, one day while out on a rescue it jumped over a ditch - a sheep jumped up and the dog quickly bit the sheeps throat then carried on with the rescue. That dog was rehomed to a town and was never trusted on the fells again. If the shock collars were so effective then why did they not use one on this dog?

I think there are far better (and more effective) ways of training dogs.

 

[kris]

If a dog of its own accord enters land without permission but does no more, its owner is not liable under civil law for trespass; nor is it a criminal offence unless there is a contravention of regulations made under the Control of Dogs Order. Under civil law it is likely that the dog's owner would be liable for any damage which it is in the nature of a dog to commit.

It is an offence for a dog to be at large, ie not on a lead or otherwise under close control, in a field of sheep. Sheep dogs and police dogs are exempted from this provision.

Dogs worrying livestock

The Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953

Under the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953 the owner and anyone else under whose control the dog is at the time will be guilty of an offence if it worries livestock on agricultural land. The dog must have been attacking or chasing livestock in such a way that it could reasonably be expected to cause injury or suffering or, in the case of females, abortion or the loss or diminution of their produce. An offence is not committed if at the time of the worrying the livestock were trespassing, the dog belonged to the owner of the land on which the trespassing livestock were and the person in charge of the dog did not cause the dog to attack the livestock. The definition of 'livestock' includes cattle, sheep, goats, swine, horses and poultry. Game birds are not included.

The Animals Act 1971

Civil liability arises from the Animals Act 1971. Anyone who is the keeper of a dog that causes damage by killing or injuring livestock is liable for the damage caused. For the purposes of the Act the keeper is the owner or the person in possession of the dog. The head of the household is liable where the owner is under the age of 16.

The keeper of the dog is not liable where the damage is due wholly to the fault of the person suffering it or if the livestock were killed or injured on land onto which they had strayed and either the dog belonged to the occupier or its presence was authorised by the occupier.

Under the Act there is a defence available to someone who is the subject of civil proceedings for killing or injuring a dog that was worrying or about to worry livestock. The defence can be used where there were no other means of ending or preventing the worrying or where the dog that had done the worrying was still in the vicinity and not under control and there were no practicable means of establishing ownership.

farmers only have the right to shoot a dog under certain stringent conditions.i feel a lot of farmers think that they can shoot anything on their land whether its worrying sheep or not.sorry but they dont have more rights than the rest of us just the same,although they do have a right to protect their stock it doesnt mean they can shoot a dog just for being off the lead.anyone whos dog is out of contriol in public is liable to be sued for danages caused by the said dog regardless of the circumstances.i think the problem is most people who have had a dog shot by a farmer havent taken legal advice or legal action against them.if a farmer discharges a weapon in public which is a danger to any bystanders or members of the public then theyll be prosecuted as they should be.if i was in a field where there were no sheep and my dog was off the lead then the farmer has no right whatsoever to shoot the dog.there was a legal case a couple of years ago where a farmer did this and was sued and had to pay damages of 700 pounds and also had to do community service.

as for electric shock collars read this.its the most recent parliamentary discussion about them

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=...b.1158.0&m=1766

 

[kris]

i thought this quote from hansard was particularly interesting :thumbsup: .

Electric shock collars teach an animal to respond out of fear rather than an actual willingness to obey. They do not address underlying behavioural problems, and may leave the causes of barking or aggression suppressed. Training a dog on the basis of fear poses the risk that at some time in the future it may turn on its owner or, God forbid, on an innocent child.

 

[mally]

I have worked in kennels in the past.  I would say to you that if you have any doubts in your mind I would not take the offer of the job.
I would never use one of these collars.  I think I know the kennels you are talking about (are you in the Lake District?).

I do not understand why she would use the collars for sheep chasers.  Even if it cures the dog from chasing sheep what then? 

A farmer has the right to shoot any dog loose in a field among sheep.  It does not have to be chasing the sheep.  A farmer WILL NOT ask you to recall your dog, most will just shoot to kill.

Dogs should never be walked off lead in areas where there are sheep or other livestock.  It is totally irrelevant to say whether they will recall or not. 

I have known of a guy jogging with his husky round a local monument on a public footpath.  The dog went out of sight round a corner ahead of him, by the time he turned the corner (literally a minute later) the dog had been shot.  He rushed it to the vet but it died shortly after.  The farmer was not even questioned by police.

I have read about other cases where the dog had been recalled and the farmer walked over and shot the dog dead - even though it was now on a lead.

I think this lady is making a mistake in telling owners she can cure sheep chasers and she is making them feel it is OK to walk their dogs loose on the fells.

Years ago I read of a BC who was a highly trained search and rescue dog, one day while out on a rescue it jumped over a ditch - a sheep jumped up and the dog quickly bit the sheeps throat then carried on with the rescue.  That dog was rehomed to a town and was never trusted on the fells again.  If the shock collars were so effective then why did they not use one on this dog?

I think there are far better (and more effective) ways of training dogs.

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Yes i agree there are better ways of training dogs and i only used the collar as a last resort. I found it better than going down the vets to get PTS.

Secondly i work my dogs among sheep on an almost daily basis during the winter months(ferreting and lamping). I stock train my dogs as pups and they learn to respect livestock at an early age.

Have YOU ever used an electric collar. If not who are you to judge??