Fighting[?] And Disqualification

[gavintasker]

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Please can us novices have a definition of "fighting"?

Or any other offence, while racing, which will result in a dog being disqualified?

I seem to be told a different thing every time I ask. :wacko: :blink:

If I`m going to be hanged, I want to know what I`ve done to deserve it!

Thanks,

gavin.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Heres the rule from the WRCA rule book as sent out to Club Secretarys at the start of 2007.

4.30 Fighting occurs when a Whippet deliberately and aggressively impedes the progress

of one or more Whippets during a race by turning it’s head.

It is not fighting when:-

a. A Whippet ‘lays on’ another Whippet to stop it passing.

b. A Whippet tries to jump over the whippet ahead of it.

c. A strong and determined Whippet shoves its way through the dog(s) ahead of

it.

d. A Whippet runs to the inside or outside (even on a straight track) e.g. So that

it is on the rails ready for a bend and in doing so pushes other whippet(s) out

of the way.

e. A Whippet barks while racing.

f. A Whippet retaliates when interfered with, because the race ends with the

first offence.

IMO a dog can look accross at another wqhile running but must not actualy connect with the other dog with its head turned as if to try and bite the other dog.

if a dog barges another whilst running that IMO isnt fighting as long as it doesnt turn its head in towards the other runner.

 

[gavintasker]

Heres the rule from the WRCA rule book as sent out to Club Secretarys at the start of 2007.
4.30 Fighting occurs when a Whippet deliberately and aggressively impedes the progress

of one or more Whippets during a race by turning it’s head.

It is not fighting when:-

a. A Whippet ‘lays on’ another Whippet to stop it passing.

b. A Whippet tries to jump over the whippet ahead of it.

c. A strong and determined Whippet shoves its way through the dog(s) ahead of

it.

d. A Whippet runs to the inside or outside (even on a straight track) e.g. So that

it is on the rails ready for a bend and in doing so pushes other whippet(s) out

of the way.

e. A Whippet barks while racing.

f. A Whippet retaliates when interfered with, because the race ends with the

first offence.

IMO a dog can look accross at another wqhile running but must not actualy connect with the other dog with its head turned as if to try and bite the other dog.

if a dog barges another whilst running that IMO isnt fighting as long as it doesnt turn its head in towards the other runner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Thanks Mark. :cheers:

That was quick.

The Head Turning bit could be better worded by the WRCA but I get your drift.

I can turn my head and give a FILTHY look [like Roderic Spode who could open oysters with a glance] but I don`t intend to bite anybody! :lol:

Gavin

 

[Strike Whippets]

I agree with Mark on .....

IMO a dog can look accross at another wqhile running but must not actualy connect with the other dog with its head turned as if to try and bite the other dog.if a dog barges another whilst running that IMO isnt fighting as long as it doesnt turn its head in towards the other runner.

The thing is though people see things differently .......So what one person sees as disqualify-able, another person sees nothing wrong ........You then sadly get people who can't move on from how a pup/dog was and don't give them the chance to show they have matured now .........

 

[lynxexpress]

I agree with Mark on .....

IMO a dog can look accross at another wqhile running but must not actualy connect with the other dog with its head turned as if to try and bite the other dog.if a dog barges another whilst running that IMO isnt fighting as long as it doesnt turn its head in towards the other runner.

The thing is though people see things differently .......So what one person sees as disqualify-able, another person sees nothing wrong ........You then sadly get people who can't move on from how a pup/dog was and don't give them the chance to show they have matured now .........

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​

Surely if a dog is disquaified and then cleared for racing it is not a matter of people will not give it a chance the dog has cleared for racing end of story.

 

[Strike Whippets]

Surely if a dog is disquaified and then cleared for racing it is not a matter of people will not give it a chance the dog has cleared for racing end of story.

You'd think so wouldn't you .........but sadly this isn't always the case .........Some people like to see a "dodgy/fighter" fail .........At the end of the day they are our pets, that sleep on the bed, steal from our work tops, dig up our garden and take over our sofa, chairs and lives.......Its only fair to give everyones pet a fair crack of the whip IMO ........

 

[lynxexpress]

Surely if a dog is disquaified and then cleared for racing it is not a matter of people will not give it a chance the dog has cleared for racing end of story.

You'd think so wouldn't you .........but sadly this isn't always the case .........Some people like to see a "dodgy/fighter" fail .........At the end of the day they are our pets, that sleep on the bed, steal from our work tops, dig up our garden and take over our sofa, chairs and lives.......Its only fair to give everyones pet a fair crack of the whip IMO ........

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​

I can honestly say in all the years that i have been in dog racing i have never ever seen or heared of a dog or owner of a dog being victimised or picked on by another person or racing club official and futher more if this kind of thing does go on then the person or club official should be reported to the govening body.

 

[Strike Whippets]

Yes you are right, they should be reported .......I've only lightly open raced for the past 5 years, but I've seen open dogs victimised in this time

 

[Terry & Sheila Smith]

Heres the rule from the WRCA rule book as sent out to Club Secretarys at the start of 2007.

4.30 Fighting occurs when a Whippet deliberately and aggressively impedes the progress

of one or more Whippets during a race by turning it’s head.

It is not fighting when:-

a. A Whippet ‘lays on’ another Whippet to stop it passing.

b. A Whippet tries to jump over the whippet ahead of it.

c. A strong and determined Whippet shoves its way through the dog(s) ahead of

it.

d. A Whippet runs to the inside or outside (even on a straight track) e.g. So that

it is on the rails ready for a bend and in doing so pushes other whippet(s) out

of the way.

e. A Whippet barks while racing.

f. A Whippet retaliates when interfered with, because the race ends with the

first offence.

Hmm. Well we've had dogs failed trials / been dq'ed for a., c., e., & f.. We've also found it extremely difficult to re-trial dogs 'cos big hearted racers don't want to risk their dogs getting hurt by supposed fighters.

Terry Smith

 

[LJH]

sorry hanah but i think that is rubbish. If a dog has been disqualified in the past you are bound to keep a close eye on it specially if you have a dog in the same race, after all dogs can be seriously injured by interfering dogs. But this does not constitute victimisation.

 

[Strike Whippets]

Well yes people do keep an eye on the known dodgy ones .......but then when I did some line judging at an open .......I got TOLD to look out for 2 dogs .......The one BARKED

......Well you can imagine a known fighter who had the cheek to bark .......Hmm people wanted him disqualified for this ........No they don't get victimised ........I know a dodgy dog causes injuries ......I stopped racing Inca at Cotswolds when she was young because she had a thing for Tony and Stephs Smartie ..........She never turned her head, but had a great deal of enjoyment leaning on him and bumping him all the way down the track .......Unfortunately pups/dogs that have fought or been dodgy in the past get a name ......If your face fits then people will lend you their dogs to help straighten the dog out, but if your face doesn't fit then you stand no chance .........I've always lent my dogs .......

 

[Terry & Sheila Smith]

, after all dogs can be seriously injured by interfering dogs.

This is often trotted out but how often have you seen a crippling injury inflicted by a fighter? I've seen more accidents caused by dogs switching line & slower heavy dogs coming in hard on the finish. Had a dog of our own ruined by the latter but that's part & parcel of racing. Fighters can ruin a young dogs confidence I grant you, but I've never seen a career finishing injury caused by fighting. Most of the really serious injuries seem to occur when dogs are clear of the pack & unimpeded.

Terry Smith

 

[Smiffy@VeronnaV]

Well yes people do keep an eye on the known dodgy ones

AND WHY NOT? Not everyone has a bottomless pit of money to go trotting off to the vet every Monday after running with 'known dodgy ones'!

.......but then when I did some line judging at an open .......I got TOLD to look out for 2 dogs .......The one BARKED

......Well you can imagine a known fighter who had the cheek to bark .......Hmm people wanted him disqualified for this ........No they don't get victimised

I HAVE NEVER ever known this to happen when I have been line judging, either at club or open racing. But then, I always have a blank sheet of paper, I DON'T KNOW who is coming up the track - maybe every race meeting should adopt this system!

........I know a dodgy dog causes injuries ......

Dont' we all, some of us to the tune of £1,300 for ONE INJURY FROM BEING LEANT UPON ON ALL THE WAY FROM THE TRAPS TO THE LINE.

I stopped racing Inca at Cotswolds when she was young because she had a thing for Tony and Stephs Smartie ..........She never turned her head, but had a great deal of enjoyment leaning on him and bumping him all the way down the track

SADLY, not everyone who owns and races their dog has the same moral backbone as your good self, many many think their lovely dog will 'run through it' How in Gods name is that going to happen one wonders? .......

Unfortunately pups/dogs that have fought or been dodgy in the past get a name

Quite true, I remember EVERY dog that has been 'dishonest' when running with any of mine, and will quite literally drive miles and miles TO AVOID having to run with that dog!.....It is my view that people don't have very short memories, they have very long ones!!!.

If your face fits then people will lend you their dogs to help straighten the dog out,

NO DOG ever got 'straightened out' by repeating the exercise again, and again and again under the same circimstances - without a GREAT DEAL of background work prior to bringing them back for re-schooling. Why should I, or anyone else for that matter feel that THEY HAVE TO allow their dog/s to be put at risk when the owner has done nothing to attempt to alter the behaviour of the dog prior to re-schooling? Where does it say in any club rule that we have to do this? In fact, I well remember your mentor telling me in no uncertain terms that the safety of my dog WAS MY RESPONSIBILITY, no one elses. Thus, it stands to reason, that if I feel my dog to be at risk, I have the right to decline to participate; and without being castigated for doing so.

but if your face doesn't fit then you stand no chance .

MOST clubs to which I have gone have ALWAYS been most accommodating and I have belonged to SCPWRC, GPWRC, APWRC, HoE, the Indie and Taunton ... and I would be the VERY LAST PERSON to say my 'face fits'

.........I've always lent my dogs .......

Good for you, so have I, the last time 3 weeks ago and now they are both off for 6 weeks with injuries - check and mate I think.

Now, back to the REAL ISSUE, DISQUALIFICATION RULE ...which is so airy fairy as to not be worth the paper and ink to print it.

 

[Mark Roberts]

and I would be the VERY LAST PERSON to say my 'face fits

aww your face always fits carmel :thumbsup:

 

[IanGerman]

Now,  back to the REAL ISSUE, DISQUALIFICATION RULE ...which is so airy fairy as to not be worth the paper and ink to print it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I'm not sure it's as worthless as that, but I agree it could do with clarification. The criteria for clearing also needs work - although I have no instant solutions, it is becoming increasingly difficult to clear dq'd dogs with the race pool gradually getting smaller and smaller.

Personally I am ever grateful to the members of East Anglia, Harvel and Maidstone in helping me clear the persistent and determined nobbler - New Lisa Life. The main difference in Lisa's case was that I wouldn't race her until I was sure in my own mind that she was clean. It took 5 years and if ever a dog deserved to have a bad name it is her. But in her tenth year I can confidentally say she is bomb proof and you could run ANYTHING with her. I always loaned my dogs too, so you could say I was being rewarded, but it is trickier to get three dogs to run against nowadays and I don't envy racers from smaller clubs.

And I still maintain that an officially sanctioned DVD could be produced for reference to, by future generations of racers. (see previous post) :teehee:

 

[firesprite]

hi, what does "lay on another whippet " mean????

in plain english not dog speak as we are new to all this,

cheers

 

[Mark Roberts]

hi, what does "lay on another whippet " mean????

when 2 whippets are racing side by side and one of them is leaning into the other (sort of leaning against it) as long as it keeps looking forward its not fighting.

 

[lynxexpress]

Well yes people do keep an eye on the known dodgy ones
AND WHY NOT?  Not everyone has a bottomless pit of money to go trotting off to the vet every Monday after running with 'known dodgy ones'!

  .......but then when I did some line judging at an open .......I got TOLD to look out for 2 dogs .......The one BARKED

......Well you can imagine a known fighter who had the cheek to bark .......Hmm people wanted him disqualified for this ........No they don't get victimised

I HAVE NEVER ever known this to happen when I have been line judging, either at club or open racing.  But then, I always have a blank sheet of paper, I DON'T KNOW who is coming up the track - maybe every race meeting should adopt this system!

........I know a dodgy dog causes injuries ......

Dont' we all, some of us to the tune of £1,300 for ONE INJURY FROM BEING LEANT UPON ON ALL THE WAY FROM THE TRAPS TO THE LINE.

I stopped racing Inca at Cotswolds when she was young because she had a thing for Tony and Stephs Smartie ..........She never turned her head, but had a great deal of enjoyment leaning on him and bumping him all the way down the track

SADLY, not everyone who owns and races their dog has the same moral backbone as your good self, many many think their lovely dog will 'run through it' How in Gods name is that going to happen one wonders?  .......

Unfortunately pups/dogs that have fought or been dodgy in the past get a name

Quite true, I remember EVERY dog that has been 'dishonest' when running with any of mine, and will quite literally drive miles and miles TO AVOID having to run with that dog!.....It is my view that people don't have very short memories, they have very long ones!!!.

If your face fits then people will lend you their dogs to help straighten the dog out,

NO DOG ever got 'straightened out' by repeating the exercise again, and again and again under the same circimstances - without a GREAT DEAL  of background work prior to bringing them back for re-schooling.  Why should I, or anyone else for that matter feel that THEY HAVE TO allow their dog/s to be put at risk when the owner has done nothing to attempt to alter the behaviour of the dog prior to re-schooling?  Where does it say in any club rule that we have to do this?  In fact, I well remember your mentor telling me in no uncertain terms that the safety of my dog WAS MY RESPONSIBILITY, no one elses. Thus, it stands to reason, that if I feel my dog to be at risk, I have the right to decline to participate; and without being castigated for doing so.

but if your face doesn't fit then you stand no chance .

MOST clubs to which I have gone have ALWAYS been most accommodating and I have belonged to SCPWRC, GPWRC, APWRC, HoE,  the Indie and Taunton ... and I would be the VERY LAST PERSON to say my 'face fits'

.........I've always lent my dogs .......

Good for you, so have I, the last time 3 weeks ago and now they are both off for 6 weeks with injuries - check and mate I think.

Now,  back to the REAL ISSUE, DISQUALIFICATION RULE ...which is so airy fairy as to not be worth the paper and ink to print it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Your remark about line judging is spot on i think and allways have done that if you are on the line at opens or at club you should not have a programe with you should only have a blank sheet of paper.

 

[Darcia]

Do remember that the people that line judge are volunteers - for example both myself and my partner were on the line at the Inde for all of the bend racing. We both put down the results on a piece of blank paper then transferred the result into my programme. You get very few people volunteering to do line judging anyway - you would get even less if you then told them that they were not even able to try and keep there programmes up to date.

Im not in anyway trying to disagree with the people who have made the comments above - just saying that an ideal situation is hard to come by when you are relying on people volunteering to help out. (Perhaps the people who go up to the line judges and try to persuade them that what they have all seen is wrong might want to think about that aswell)

 

[Smiffy@VeronnaV]

Isn't that part of the whole debate? We don't receive any training, well, we can't for rules which are so vague as to be ludicrous! Of course it's not fighting if a dog 'lays on another', but it sure as hell is impeding the progress of another dog, but they aren't DQ's.

Are the rules so vague in order to not DQ dogs? That way the owners don't get upset/lose? Wouldn't it be useful to have a clear exposition of the rules of racing that are meaningful rather that meaningless. The House of Lords are always complaining about the vague way in which Bills are drafted by the House of Commons. Complaining that it may lead to misinterpretation. How right they are! Our rules are so vague that you can see exactly the same as the next person, and interpret it differently. So before we get to training dvds let's get the rules clarified/amended/approved. Then we can go for the training bit, and perhaps people will be happier to line judge, more so than they are at present. Ditto for the quarter, half-way and three quarter judges.

In response to Darcia's comment about the programme - fill it in after you have judged the race, not use your programme as the line results form. That way no-one can accuse you of favouritism!