HELP needed with 1 year old Lurcher/ Terrier mix

[ScoutsMom1402]

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Hi all,

I’m new to this and just need some advice. I rescued a (what I believe lurcher terrier type mix) from
Spain 6 months ago. She is generally a very sweet and affectionate dog but she’s crazy.
When on leash she runs away and runs crazy, chasing wildlife and barking at other dogs and children. She is not aggressive so once she meets those people she stops barking. I’ve tried treats, a long leash, short leash but she seems to be possessed once she’s off leash and has zero recall when she sees specific things. How did you all train your dogs? Any idea and suggestion welcome!
I’ll attach a picture of her for attention and maybe also to really figure out what she is.

Ps when we adopted her she had been chucked out of a car and just left to fend for herself for 5 months before we found her.

 

[Finsky]

Hi there, oh yes....there is terrier face looking at me, but it is difficult to determine from photo if there is something else in the mix as well.
But just that one type of dog in the making is already good indicator that why you might have your hands full taming her. Terriers in general are not 'street wise' and will readily go for after cars...wild life...it is all good game and opportunity for hunting that they can very hard wired to do, and if they are that way inclined, it is VERY VERY hard to train those urges once they've had taste of it. It doesn't mean that dog is nasty, but it can be very alarming to other people and dogs and create situations that can be dangerous for them as well as your dog and you.
So first of, settle for the thought that you might not be able to let your dog off from lead at all, unless you are on specific fenced off dog training area/field. Some areas there is those kind of areas for hire in hourly rate if you find there is need to let your dog off and give him bit of freedom.
But you do of course be able to get out and about with her while she is on leash and not being dragged around by her neither...it is not fun for you or the dog.
I would keep your dog's lead attached on harness for the 'walks' ..that way she is not able to damage her windpipe.
And now for the warning....it is possible for you to home train your dog yourself, but it will take patience, time and more patience and understanding that it ain't done over night...the training has to be practiced everyday for period of time before any big changes for her behaviour may take place. If you are lucky, she might pick it up sooner rather than later and don't expect perfect results. If you settle to start with the possibility that she is able to learn to walk in manageable fashion...any better is huge bonus. Terriers are clever but they are stubborn and usually tend to think for themselves. If you want them to do something they are not too keen, you have to be smarter and trick them to do it...telling off and forcing them to do something is sure way to achieve nothing at all. So you will need to learn distract them from what they have taken interest to and then direct it to something else you may wish to happen.

I would look some training videos to give you some ideas how to proceed with basic walking training, but basically I would think the whole process as you would be teaching a pup to walk. Even your dog is not a pup, it haven't learned the basics so you have to start from scratch as you would be same time correcting any learned bad habits too..yours and the dogs

I hope somebody else will come along and recommend some good videos for you.
Other option is taking your dog to a training class.

 

[Finsky]

I'm adding this link to read more about terriers, you truly have to understand how they 'tick' to able to handle them and get them behave. Particularly read the 'Lakeland, welsh & fox terrier' as that is quite good description of many terriers in general. Yours show some 'black and tan' colouration that is common with those breeds, so as a guess, it is possible that their personality type is strong could be in yours too...
Knowing Terriers - Terrier Rescue
Ten Top Tips To Terriers - Terrier Rescue ...check for the 'recall'

 

[ScoutsMom1402]

Thank you. That is very helpful and I was thinking something like that is the case as she can be very stubborn and follow her own sense but I thought I’d put time and effort into it to see what we can achieve. I’ll attach another and hopefully better photo of her!

 

[ScoutsMom1402]

I’m not sure if the photos uploaded as I’m using this on my phone. Let me try again.
Thank you for the links too.

 

[Finsky]

I’m not sure if the photos uploaded as I’m using this on my phone. Let me try again.
Thank you for the links too.

We have some lurcher owners here and they will be able to advise more of that side of the things. But those two mixed...?? ...anything could happen!

 

[ScoutsMom1402]

Oh god. Yeah the two mixes combined could just mean having my hands full forever!

 

[Finsky]

Thank you. That is very helpful and I was thinking something like that is the case as she can be very stubborn and follow her own sense but I thought I’d put time and effort into it to see what we can achieve. I’ll attach another and hopefully better photo of her!

Oh it is possible to achieve some positive progress at least. I've had several older 'second hand' terriers that came up with various personality traits and their lack of and they were all trainable..or enough for our requirements. But it does take determinate mind set from you and rest of the family and there is no giving in once they've learned the correct way...they will always test the 'barriers' and how much you are willing to give in And that can be fun too...

 

[Finsky]

Oh god. Yeah the two mixes combined could just mean having my hands full forever!

I'm sure you will have hands full for looooooong time to come, but not necessary in negative way. Your girl is still very young and in very trainable age and despite her rough start in life, what ever she has learned from that time can be re programmed to something else.
My youngest terrier is just coming on 9 months and even she had good start, she is still bit 'wild' and still not that good on lead. She knows what is expected from her, she has shown it many times....but everything around her is so exciting and she is in urge and hurry to experience it all. It is something that will calm down with age...all mine haven't shown proper calming down until they've reach 3 years of age..or more...

I just had a look at some dog training videos....this one is one that I quite like...something to start with..

 

[JoanneF]

In my experience there are three main reasons why a dog doesn't do as we ask.

1. They don't understand what we are asking
2. The reward/benefit/motivation to do as we ask doesn't outweigh the reward/benefit/motivation to continue doing what they are already doing
3. You are working against a deeply rooted breed trait - theres a reason why we don't use huskies to herd sheep; they might be trainable for it but it would be hard.

So taking these in order, first, does your dog understand the cue? Does she recall in the house for example? It's possible you may have contaminated your recall cue by repeating it when she doesn't come back. If you find yourself shouting ”come here Scout” (I assume that is what her name is) again and again, she has learned that coming to you at first shout is optional. So I'd start from scratch with either a new cue or a whistle. First you should charge the cue or whistle. Pip the whistle (or call your word, to save on typing I'll describe this with a whistle but the technique is the same) and simultaneously feed a high value treat like liver or frankfurter sausage. I'd also get a new reward that is only for recall. If food doesn't motivate her, use a toy that she will only get for recalling. Do your simultaneous pip on the whistle and treat 5 times. Repeat the exercise 5 times in a day, so 5 x 5. Now she knows whistle = treat. Do that over a few days. Then take it into another room. Pip the whistle and she should come running to you - make it rain rewards. To a dog, lots of tiny pieces of reward seems to have more value than one piece of equivalent size. If she doesn't, go back a step. Once she is reliably recalling in the house on the first pip, take it into the garden. Practice there for several days, if she breaks her recall go back to the previous step for a few days.

Then take it out. But - and I can't stress the importance of this - you must have her on a long line and harness. If she breaks her recall she could run across a road, if she continues to run to and bark at people and dogs, she us at risk under the Dangerous Dogs Act because she is out of your control and she could put people in fear.

That brings us to the second point - where running and barking with other dogs is far more fun than coming back to you. There is a trainer, I can never remember which one, who says BMFI. Be more f***ing interesting. Coming back to you has to be the best thing ever. Far, far better than playing with other dogs. So make the reward awesome, be really generous. Now it stands to reason you need to have a great bond with her, you have already started building that hopefully.

Start in low distraction environments where there are no dogs or people, then once she has nailed that try an environment where there are dogs or people at a distance. Gradually you can build up distractions.

And I think Finsky has covered the third point already.

But as Finsky said, expect this to take a lot of time, and you may even have to keep her on a long line indefinitely to make sure she is under control. Some dogs are just like that.

The book Total Recall by Pippa Mattinson is very good.

 

[JudyN]

I have a lurcher with terrier genes - they're a lot of fun... depending on your definition of fun, of course Failing a photo of her standing, in profile, a good indication of whether she has sighthound in (which would make her a lurcher) is - when she runs, does your jaw drop and do you go 'Wow, that's fast!' despite having seen it before? If so, then she's probably a lurcher!

What sighthound genes brings to the mix is a high degree of sensitivity, which can be volatile when combined with terrier genes. It sounds like your girl could be quite wired the whole time, so I'd start addressing that by trying to walk places where she can be calmer - so somewhere where you can avoid people, dogs, wildlife, and any other triggers - which is easier said than done. Time of day can make a difference - some people avoid others by walking very early in the morning or late at night, but to a hunting dog, they can be prime hunting time so that might not help. Short, more frequent walks might help, as there's less time for her arousal levels to build up to critical. I'd definitely keep her on lead, or a long line, so she can't practise unwanted behaviour. There's a website that allows you to find enclosed fields in your area: The Original Listings Site for Enclosed Dog Walking Fields in the UK

Try to 'catch' and praise/treat any calm behaviour. If she spots a person or dog a long way off, but manages to focus on you, reward that. This article gives more details: Behavior Adjustment Training: A New Approach to Problem Behaviors

There's a vid about capturing calmness here:

Also, it's one thing a dog knowing what you want them to do, and another for them to have the self-control to actually do it, so I like impulse control training - video here:

You can also invent some fun games round this - I taught my dog to move from one carpet tile to another, then I'd put him at one end of the kitchen a treat at the other end, and get him to move from tile to tile on my cue, me moving the one he'd just stepped off and placing it just in front of him. It got him thinking, and accustomed him to not getting all het up about the eventual reward.

 

[ScoutsMom1402]

Thank you all. This has been really helpful and I’ll get on that tomorrow and report back!

 

[Lorvig]

I am using British slip lead, and it works.

 

[JudyN]

Slip leads, British or otherwise, are aversives as well as being potentially dangerous, particularly with a dog capable of hitting high speeds very quickly. They do absolutely nothing to calm the dog - which is what is needed.

 

[Lorvig]

Maybe. I have experience only with mastiffs, stubborn, dominant, powerful and huge. I also know how to use the slip lead and this is important.

 

[Finsky]

Maybe. I have experience only with mastiffs, stubborn, dominant, powerful and huge. I also know how to use the slip lead and this is important.

The trouble with smaller, light weight dogs and anything that are around their necks that despite their size, there is not much protective tissue to soften the lead's impact. When they launch forward and do sudden pulling, they do with their whole weight....and all that pressure they are able to create is directed into very small area, just bellow surface and they can damage those tissues underneath.
I received 'second hand' yorkie and despite its minute size...it had done just that...not being used to a lead it pulled and pulled and its windpipe did get damaged and it was coughing rest of its life when ever it got out of breath.
Larger breeds like yours...it has meat around its throat so that lead is not going dig in same way and suffocate it.

 

[ScoutsMom1402]

Are there any harnesses you guys recommend that would really help have more control over a lurcher/terrier type? She tends to swing around a little when on the harness but you’re right, her neck is small so wouldn’t feel really happy with just a leash on there.

 

[ScoutsMom1402]

Also. She knows her name and she definitely knows what come means. She comes but she has this thing she comes and sits and then she bounces around, she hasn’t figured out the art of actually sitting for some time yet. It’s almost like she’s got mild ADD and needs to get rid of that before anything else.

 

[Finsky]

Also. She knows her name and she definitely knows what come means. She comes but she has this thing she comes and sits and then she bounces around, she hasn’t figured out the art of actually sitting for some time yet. It’s almost like she’s got mild ADD and needs to get rid of that before anything else.

Yeah...I don't even attempt to train mine before they've had chance to get little bit of steam out of their systems. It is almost like a mental block...but how long that mental block exist before they start to listen to me is getting shorter as time goes by. So much so that depending of the surroundings, I can go straight to the point and not bother with the 'steam letting' at all.
I've gone through many different styles of harnesses and have finally settled with this kind of harness with both of mine EZYDOG CHEST PLATE DOG HARNESS - Strong and Comfortable ALL COLOURS & DENIM | eBay , they've not managed to slip out even there was some serious attempts at times and the shape of the harness does leave room for a normal collar too if you want to add that as extra security and link it with the harness.
I just picked random advert to show you...there is other sellers around with varying price ranges.

 

[Finsky]

Also. She knows her name and she definitely knows what come means. She comes but she has this thing she comes and sits and then she bounces around, she hasn’t figured out the art of actually sitting for some time yet. It’s almost like she’s got mild ADD and needs to get rid of that before anything else.

Oh..another one... keep asking her to sit down when ever you want to give or ask something from her. And don't give in until she does it. It might take some doing outside, but for example..if you start by not letting her out of car until she has sit down for you...it will give a good start..she has managed to divert her attention from all the exciting stuff for a brief moment and concentrate for your instruction. As she start mastering her urges, expand the sit demand to other situations..and maybe eventually to 'stay' etc...one step at the time.
When ever you give a instruction, wait...and wait...and wait. Eventually comes the moment that she will look at you..'what's up..why are we not doing anything..come on!?' That is the moment you need to repeat the command...the moment she turns her eye ball towards you and really look at you....and then you wait it to sink in. Eventually she will give in and do as you said...then give her the 'reward' of progressing forward..or even just attaching a lead to her harness. It only takes few of those 'light bulb' moments to get her to start taking notice and learn to master her eagerness.