How Do You Move Your Whippet

[Sidewinders]

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Interesting topic. We've just discussed the same with my friend.

I would like to add some picturess, not of the best quality, but enough to see the difference. Both young dogs are Champions.

Here's a dog, with "reach and drive", but IMO, looking at him on the move I can hardly imagine him doing what whippets were bred for. Or at least imagine him at coursing, with his overangulated hindlegs, etc. And if he was asked to move slowly, the judge could see the problems with his legs and topline. But some judges and breeders would say - wow, what a good mover he is (looking on his side movements), moving like GSD. :blink:

And here's a dog (BTW, he used to move in the ring at quite a fast pace , though he is 5 cm lower than previous), holding his topline on the move, with enough reach and drive also (but not as exaggerated), could also move at a very slow pace, showing no faults neither with hindlegs (maybe he could only have a bit better angulations of his hindlegs), nor with topline. His racing and courcing wins can prove my point.

On one of the shows judge told me that when he's looking dog on the move (he meant whippet), he tries to imagine this dog working in the field. And he would strictly penalize dog having problems with legs, even though this dog could have a glamorous look when stacked.

It's of course IMO. I didn't mention to argue with anyone. :b

 

[Sidewinders]

Forgot to add stacked pictures of both dogs.

 

[05whippet]

Forgot to add stacked pictures of both dogs.

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I am sorry if I offend anyone in my next comment (I certainly don't mean to) but the dog in the top picture is just not for me at all,I see what you mean about his rear angulation and I have to say that I do not like his topline either....sorry but I am just being honest

I will also add that I don't like him on the move either :b

 

[JAX]

Forgot to add stacked pictures of both dogs.

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I am sorry if I offend anyone in my next comment (I certainly don't mean to) but the dog in the top picture is just not for me at all,I see what you mean about his rear angulation and I have to say that I do not like his topline either....sorry but I am just being honest

I will also add that I don't like him on the move either :b

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Got to agree with you there Pam :huggles:

Most bazaar shape is the first dog :wacko: I m sure he could be stacked better than that :wacko: Just look how his pads on his back feet are not touching the ground

 

[JAX]

meant to say ALL of his pads 8)

 

[neave]

meant to say ALL of his pads  8)

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Got to agree with you guys the first one his top line slops away far to quickly !

 

[Seraphina]

Yes, of-course we need to trot our dogs, it would not be feasible to judge in gallop, but surely there is a limit to what is “good” reach? There must be some point when the reach becomes exaggerated. And as Olga’s photos illustrated you can have a dog with tremendous reach and drive, yet he is an absolute disaster stacked.

IMHO the reach and drive, are like everything, more is not necessarily better. Everybody wants lovely long necks, but do we want this? (w00t)

 

[05whippet]

Yes, of-course we need to trot our dogs, it would not be feasible to judge in gallop, but surely there is a limit to what is “good” reach?  There must be some point when the reach becomes exaggerated.  And as Olga’s photos illustrated you can have a dog with tremendous reach and drive, yet he is an absolute disaster stacked.
IMHO the reach and drive, are like everything, more is not necessarily better.  Everybody wants lovely long necks, but do we want this? (w00t)

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Now that depends on whether you have high shelves and are short and can't reach things.....he could be quite handy to have around! :lol: :lol:

 

[echo]

I don't think any of you should be commenting on any individual dogs on an open forum in a negative manner. Those of you who have been in the breed for many years should know better, I am not sure what you hope to prove by doing this if people want your opinion they will enter under you. I am sure you wouldn't be very happy if a picture of your dog/dogs were posted on here for people to fault Judge!!

I think it is important to move your dog to get the best out of them. Moving at a trot is a normal gait for any dog this is a very effective gait to cover distance with minimal effort. Those who think that Whippets are only running dogs and therefore don't have a trotting gait should spend a little more time watching there dogs when out free running I know all my dogs will trot around between the mad all out gallops. Its not all about track racing.

 

[Seraphina]

Moving at a trot is a normal gait for any dog this is a very effective gait to cover distance with minimal effort. Those who think that Whippets are only running dogs and therefore don't have a trotting gait should spend a little more time watching there dogs when out free running I know all my dogs will trot around between the mad all out gallops. Its not all about track racing.

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Nobody is arguing that Whippets do not trot, but extended trot is certainly not Whippets most effective gait. Different breeds have different gait, according to their original purpose and body build. For GSD extended trot is the most natural and comfortable movement, while Pekingese gait is described in their standard as;

…… unhurried, dignified, free and strong, with a slight roll over the shoulders. This motion is smooth and effortless and is as free as possible from bouncing, prancing or jarring. The rolling gait results from a combination of the bowed forelegs, well laid back shoulders, full broad chest and narrow light rear, all of which produce adequate reach and moderate drive.

Unfortunately it is fashionable trying to get all the breeds to move with tremendous reach and drive. It is even expected of Borzoi, despite that all the old Russian papers talked about Borzoi (when not galloping) to be moving in a slow trot, described as “Borzoi dance”. Russian Borzoi breeder, a friend of mine, compared it to the slow trot an excited race horse moves when led around before the race.

 

[echo]

Nobody is arguing that Whippets do not trot, but extended trot is certainly not Whippets most effective gait. Different breeds have different gait, according to their original purpose and body build. For GSD extended trot is the most natural and comfortable movement, while Pekingese gait is described in their standard.

How can you possibly say that an extended movement is not effective what do you class as effective?

The breed standard states, Forelegs thrown well forward low over the ground & hindlegs coming well under body for propulsion, to be able to achieve this movement the whippet should be moved with pace this may call for the handler to trot or just walk a little faster. Pleae enlighten me how I should move a whippet to show profile movement discribed in the standard.

The problem in the breed many judges are not able to see good movement and more worryingly reward bad movement.

 

[Seraphina]

Nobody is arguing that Whippets do not trot, but [[SIZE=14pt]b]extended[/b] trot is certainly not Whippets most effective gait. [/SIZE]  Different breeds have different gait, according to their original purpose and body build.  For GSD extended trot is the most natural and comfortable movement, while Pekingese gait is described in their standard.

How can you possibly say that an extended movement is not effective what do you class as effective?

The breed standard states, Forelegs thrown well forward low over the ground & hindlegs coming well under body for propulsion, to be able to achieve this movement the whippet should be moved with pace this may call for the handler to trot or just walk a little faster. Pleae enlighten me how I should move a whippet to show profile movement discribed in the standard.

The problem in the breed many judges are not able to see good movement and more worryingly reward bad movement.

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The most effective and natural gait for sighthound is a gallop. MOST being the operative term. I do not know how you define effective, to me it means the gait the dog would choose if left to his own devices. My dogs gallop or move in easy relaxed trot.

I do not know where you live, I believe that in UK dogs are exhibited in lot slower pace than we do here.

The breed standard states, Forelegs thrown well forward low over the ground & hindlegs coming well under body for propulsion,

It also states NO exaggeration. My question was; at what point the extended trot becomes an exageration??? And again the operative term is extended. Or do you think that more the dog reaches better it is?

 

[echo]

Do I think the more a dog reaches the better?

to a degree I do with the forequarters, I am looking for a dog that has long low daisy clipping movement, the dog will only be able to throw its front quarters forword so far. I think what you might be referring to is a dog that is hackney front, lifting the quarters front high.

What also needs to be looked at is the drive of the dog, this is a different action to reaching, the drive coming from the rear quarters. bringing the hind quarters well under the body of the dog and driving them out and away providing the force by which the dog is moving.

If these terms reaching out in front and driving at the rear I think people might understand the action better.

 

[Seraphina]

Do I think the more a dog reaches the better?
to a degree I do with the forequarters, I am looking for a dog that has long low daisy clipping movement, the dog will only be able to throw its front quarters forword  so far. I think what you might be referring to is a dog that is hackney front, lifting the quarters front high.

What also needs to be looked at is the drive of the dog, this is a different action to reaching, the drive coming from the rear quarters. bringing the hind quarters well under the body of the dog and driving them out and away providing the force by which the dog is moving.

If these terms reaching out in front and driving at the rear I think people might understand the action better.

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Well, NO hackneyed movement is NOT extended trot. :wacko:

 

[neave]

I don't think any of you should be commenting on any individual dogs on an open forum in a negative manner. Those of you who have been in the breed for many years should know better, I am not sure what you hope to prove by doing this if people want your opinion they will enter under you. I am sure you wouldn't be very happy if a picture of your dog/dogs were posted on here for people to fault Judge!!


I wouldnt be happy if i had posted a picture of my dog on here and people began to fault him! but the folks on this forum dont appear to be like that.  I made a comment on the dogs top line only because his owner had too.

 

[neave]

I don't think any of you should be commenting on any individual dogs on an open forum in a negative manner. Those of you who have been in the breed for many years should know better, I am not sure what you hope to prove by doing this if people want your opinion they will enter under you. I am sure you wouldn't be very happy if a picture of your dog/dogs were posted on here for people to fault Judge!! quote

I wouldnt be happy if i had posted a picture of my dog on here and people began to fault him! but the folks on this forum dont appear to be like that.  I made a comment on the dogs top line only because his owner had too, "the problems with his legs and topline" is what she had said.

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[Sidewinders]

neave, I'm sorry for misunderstanding. That first dog is not mine in fact (note that I didn't mention his name). Second is of my breeding. Both are not ideal I think. I just wanted to show in pictures the difference in movements of these 2 dogs. That dog's owner knows my opinion about his movements (which I consider as exaggerated, though she has another opinion and we can live with each other's opinion she just prefers another type), so I'm not telling it behind her back (I don't used to do that), it was just discussed on another open forum. And I'm always OK with anyone's critics about my dogs, though I'm trying to be veeery critical myself and if I think that dog has not very good head or smth - I will tell it (of course if the owner asked my opinion). Among my dogs only one has not very good movements (though no one judge noticed), and I used to show her on the slow pace as she starts to gallop if I try to move her faster. Sorry I have no picture of her on the move to illustrate, but she really has not enough reach, IMO.

I will post several pictures of different whippets on the move instead (including those two I've already posted). My friend made it.

And one more, which illustrates hackney. :unsure:

I didn't mention to offend anyone with my posts. Sorry if it looked a bit rough. :b

 

[neave]

You didnt offend anyone! But Echo didnt seem to be happy with the comment made about the dog. Sometimes people need to be critical and see things from a judges point of view. And its good that you can point out the good and not so good points of dogs, it shows that you have a good eye. This also helps of course when your picking out a puppy for showing. But the most important thing to remember when you are showing is, at the end of the day no matter what you win, whether it be 1st prize or last prize or nothing at all you know that you always take the best and most loved dog home. Sometimes its not the winning that counts, its the taking part! Thank your for sharing the pict with us.

 

[Sidewinders]

Thanks neave! :huggles:

I mentioned - it was only my subjective opinion about the dog, everyone has the right to agree or disagree with it. And I suppose that someone likes that type of Whippet, and has the right to.

When showing my dogs I only would like to receive good, professional and detailed description from the judge, I do appreciate it much more then smth like "teeth norm, topline and underline - good, head - good, movements good, exc., BOB", which is neither interesting, nor useful, even if my dog wins :wacko:

And of course my dogs first of all are much loved (and spoilt :b ) pets :wub: , whether they win or not.

 

[neave]

I agree everyone has their own thoughts and opinions and have the right to express those. Are you coming over to crufts ? Its also good when a judge gives you a detailed critique of your dog. I was well happy with the one my dog received this year when he won his first and my first res cc at the scottish kennel club show in may under alan rees (think thats how you spell his name), but i can also take critism aswell usuall with a pinch of salt HAHA!