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[Seraphina]

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Yes, I think that is very fair.

Lida

 

[playawhile]

dog owners (also inexperienced dog owners) are charging more and more the first time the dog is used.

Really! The bitch owner is taking a risk using an unproven dog!!! I myself didn't charge anything in that situation. BUT the decision about setting a price is the prerogative of the stud owner. After all, the bitch owner can always use something else if they strongly disagree.

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Hi!

I agree with you Malin that the bitch owner can take "the buisness" elsewhere!!

If I really wnat to use a certain dog I don't care about the strud fee, I just pay and "smile" ) !! I am not 100% sure I am correct but when talking to alot of the people in the breed here in Sweden it looks as the price for dogs hardly used at stud is increasing. A few years back I asked to use a dog that no one had ever used at stud and the dog had hardly been shown or had any merits in other activities but the price to use him was as high as most of the top stud dogs.

What is interesting here in Sweden is that the stud fee is depended on the merits of the dog and of what he has produced eralier but when it comes to the price of puppies the price is usually the same and of very little variation, meaning that a top dog put to a top bitch often isn't more expensiv than someone mating its pet whippet bitch to a dog with no merits.

Henrik Härling

 

[dessie]

dog owners (also inexperienced dog owners) are charging more and more the first time the dog is used.

Really! The bitch owner is taking a risk using an unproven dog!!! I myself didn't charge anything in that situation. BUT the decision about setting a price is the prerogative of the stud owner. After all, the bitch owner can always use something else if they strongly disagree.

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Hi!

I agree with you Malin that the bitch owner can take "the buisness" elsewhere!!

If I really wnat to use a certain dog I don't care about the strud fee, I just pay and "smile" ) !! I am not 100% sure I am correct but when talking to alot of the people in the breed here in Sweden it looks as the price for dogs hardly used at stud is increasing. A few years back I asked to use a dog that no one had ever used at stud and the dog had hardly been shown or had any merits in other activities but the price to use him was as high as most of the top stud dogs.

What is interesting here in Sweden is that the stud fee is depended on the merits of the dog and of what he has produced eralier but when it comes to the price of puppies the price is usually the same and of very little variation, meaning that a top dog put to a top bitch often isn't more expensiv than someone mating its pet whippet bitch to a dog with no merits.

Henrik Härling

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But what do you mean by merits??? Wins in the show ring??

These are so subjective and, personally, I am sure there are plenty of equally well constructed dogs with good movement in pet homes as there are in the show ring.

Just because you mate a top winning dog to a top winning bitch it does not mean that the puppies will necessarily be superior to puppies produced from dogs that haven't been shown and it still costs to raise them correctly!!!

 

[malin]

Hi Dessie,

I would say merits are two-fold for a stud dog:

1- conformation AND/OR performance wins

2 - puppies produced in previous litters

Using a dog in the first category will not in any way guarantee the bitch owner better puppies, but it certainly will give their litter more PR. Puppies from parents with great merits will easier gain the attention of buyers interested in finding their future show/performance whippet.

For stud dogs who do not conform to 1 to gain notice by falling into category 2 will require very daring and creative bitch owners for his first few litters!!!

When and if a dog achieves category 2 my personal opinion is that 1 does not matter.

 

[playawhile]

But what do you mean by merits??? Wins in the show ring??

These are so subjective and, personally, I am sure there are plenty of equally well constructed dogs with good movement in pet homes as there are in the show ring.

Just because you mate a top winning dog to a top winning bitch it does not mean that the puppies will necessarily be superior to puppies produced from dogs that haven't been shown and it still costs to raise them correctly!!!

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Hi!

I totally agree with you on this. I am just refering to the current situation I am used to. With merits I mean a dog that has been shown with some success or been good in lure cousring and so on. I also know that you don't get "top puppies" just because you combine a dog and bitch that has won alot but what I was refering to is the situation we have in this country in that there are different prices when using dogs and that a dog who has won alot is more expensive but the the price for a puppy is pretty much the same no matter the parents. The price for a whippet puppy in our country is very much the same no matter parents or geographical location and so on.

I would personally never hesitate to use a "pet dog" with no merits if I like him and thoght he was of use in my breeding and I think there are many useful dogs out there that no one knows about as we seem to concentrate on the "big winners".

Henrik Härling

 

[June Jonigk]

I'll reply on behalf of the Ped Whippet racers. As we are quite a small group (in relation to the show population), most people know each other, and it's a more friendly arrangement. The average stud fee is I think around £100, but it is the same for an unproven dog.

I can't imagine anyone using a stud dog with so many restrictions put on the resulting pups.

When we bred our last litter, the owner of the sire had 1st pick of the dogs. We wanted to keep a bitch, so no problems there. We also kept a dog, Mighty Mouse - he has won one championship, and we would dearly love for him to win another, and so become a Racing Champion . For some reason a lot of racing people will only go for Champions when picking a sire. We would love one of his pups at some stage, but don't feel he will get a look in unless he gets that next Championship win. Is it the same in the show world? Do owner of bitches only use show Champions?

As regards the re-mate if no pups are produced - it is probably in the interest of the stud dog owner to offer this, as no matter what happens with the bitch, the dog always seems to get the blame.

Here's wishing someone will use my little man :luck:

 

[Vicky]

I'll reply on behalf of the Ped Whippet racers.  As we are quite a small group (in relation to the show population), most people know each other, and it's a more friendly arrangement.  The average stud fee is I think around £100, but it is the same for an unproven dog.
I can't imagine anyone using a stud dog with so many restrictions put on the resulting pups.

When we bred our last litter, the owner of the sire had 1st pick of the dogs.  We wanted to keep a bitch, so no problems there.  We also kept a dog, Mighty Mouse - he has won one championship, and we would dearly love for him to win another, and so become a Racing Champion .  For some reason a lot of racing people will only go for Champions when picking a sire.  We would love one of his pups at some stage, but don't feel he will get a look in unless he gets that next Championship win.  Is it the same in the show world?  Do owner of bitches only use show Champions?

As regards the re-mate if no pups are produced - it is probably in the interest of the stud dog owner to offer this, as no matter what happens with the bitch, the dog always seems to get the blame.

Here's wishing someone will use my little man :luck:

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Sounds about the same as the non peds too, obviously a smaller stud fee as non ped racers charge smaller fee for pups. What you say about people only wanting to use Rch's is about right too - just because a dog didn't get a ch, doesn't mean it's not gonna produce good pups when put to the right bitch.

Good luck in finding your dog a girlfriend :luck:

As far as i know most non ped racers don't charge for unproven dogs - it's in the owners interest for his dog to make a name for himself at stud, so most don't mind letting the first few go for free. Can you believe that i've never been charged more than £30 for a stud fee (w00t) , would not mind paying a fee for each pup produced like some of the above mentioned. One litter we got 8 pups and the stud fee at the time for this particular dog (had 8 titles!) was £40, the owner wouldn't take it off us because we'd travelled 1 1/2hr to use his dog :lol: bless him, we eventually persuaded him to take half, and even then he thought he'd "done" us.

 

[aslan]

One litter we got 8 pups and the stud fee at the time for this particular dog (had 8 titles!) was £40, the owner wouldn't take it off us because we'd travelled 1 1/2hr to use his dog  :lol: bless him, we eventually persuaded him to take half, and even then he thought he'd "done" us.

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LOL! I need to move to England and get into non peds! My last litter I travelled ~3000kms (air fare $$$), paid a stud fee of $500, paid $800 for a caesarian delivery and sold only two pups, ended up keeping two and giving one away.

.  Do owner of bitches only use show Champions?

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No. The high profile show champions are of course popular at stud but some people go looking for just the right dog (physically and pedigree wise) for their bitch and that dog may or may not be a champion.

 

[whipowill]

IMO it is just breeders being control freaks, once you have sold a puppy it becomes the property of that new owner and, obviously, you would like the best life possible for it but you cannot control what happens to it forever and be paid!!!

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Sidetracking your thread for a second Lana just to say how refreshing it is to see/hear the above comment, well said Dessie. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

BTW interesting topic

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Cannot agree more.

I either sell pups as pets on the limited register or with full papers and it is up to the people what they wish to do. None of this retaining control and breeding rights, which seems to be fashionable.

Lida

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I think that I probably approach with the input from experience of a different breed. My other breed has become a bit too popular for my liking, which is reflected in the higher prices that the pups sell for.

We have dog dealers (puppy mills) who will do anything possible to get hold of entire dogs & bitches just to make profit. They will breed brother to sister, bitches every season and don't care where their pups go or what happens to them or if they are registered . They do no health checks and as this is a breed that suffers from epilepsy and can have temperament problems this simply spells disaster for the breed

Most of "Quality Breeders" in Oz do put stipilations on the offspring of a stud dog. The breeders now put the majority of pups on the limited register and the owners are encouraged to desex them or they retain control to the best of their ability of those that remain in tact through registered agreements.

Power hungry - perhaps, but with good reason. Popularity is often such a curse on a breed.

 

[kirislin]

Last year I planned on getting my bitch mated & the first dog couldn't do the job(it was his first time). I had a back up dog with a different breeder so went there & got her mated. When I got home from a very tiring weekend some friends of mine said I was lucky the first people didn't charge me. They seemed to be of the opinion that I should have paid the fee upfront & if the dog could't do the job then I could be offered another dog. This wouldn't have suited me at all as I didn't want to use their other dog. They said I would have just blown my dough if that was the case & that I was obliged to pay.

Thank goodness the owners of the first dog didn't feel this way. They were really good about it & we are still friends.

I'd like to know whether the first breeders would have been within their rights to ask for a stud fee when the dog couldn't/wouldn't even try.

What do you think?

Linda

 

[Mark Roberts]

Hi Kirislin

No they wouldnt opf had the right to charge you for a failed mating.

you pay a stud fee for the mating if there are is no mating you dont pay you should only pay once the stud dog has actually mated the bitch.

 

[JAX]

I wouldnt use a dog JUST because hes a Champion , in fact I dont think Ive ever used a Champion ( had one made up after Id used him though ) ) . What I look for in a stud dog is one that will compliment my bitch and has features that are better than hers . The aim of breeding is to improve your breed surely . Wether we get it right or not is another matter :- "

It helps if he `ties` in with my breeding , but if not then id try the mating and go from there . I notice that alot of the top winners from other breeds dont seem to be `line bred ` at all

How can you charge a stud fee when the dog hasnt `performed ` o Kirislin ?

That would be easy money wouldnt it

 

[dessie]

How can you charge a stud fee when the dog hasnt `performed ` o Kirislin ?
That would be easy money wouldnt it 

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Corrrrrrrrr! You want to try being 'in' Cocker Spaniels, that fraternity get up to all sorts of tricks!! There was one top winning dog being openly offered at stud to all and sundry, and the owner KNEW he was firing blanks but the poor unsuspecting punters were just offered a free return to another dog or they could bring a different bitch (?!!). This dog was subsequently sold abroad, bet you anything you like the new owners were not told of his inability.

Then there was the time I went with my friend to use a certain dog that was reluctant to mate bitches. Normally his owners would insist that the bitch stays with them for the duration of her season (yeah right, I wonder why!) but my friend would not do that and insisted she and I took the bitch and assisted in the mating, as we are both experienced enough to deal with difficult dogs. I have never seen anything like it!! My friend had the bitch's head, I was supporting her around her vulva and this dog's owners was trying to hold the dog on the bitch. What a bloody farce!! And then had the cheek to try telling us that he had briefly had a slip mating. I insisted that he hadn't been anywhere near the bitch and my friend was trying to keep the peace and actually ended up paying the stud fee (more fool her!). Funnily enough, the bitch did not have puppies and my friend ended up taking another bitch to one of their other dogs. Talk about a rip-off!!

Call me a sceptic but I wonder how much of this sort of nonsense goes on by 'names' in breeds towards the not so experienced amongst us. Especially when they insist on keeping bitches. How many of those bitches are actually mated to the dog of their choice??? How do you know if you don't actually witness the mating and, in solid coloured dogs, would you really know if it is the right dog even if you are present??? They can look totally different at home rather than in the show ring!

I had another friend with Standard Poodles and she went to the 'top' kennel of the day to collect a puppy and was shown the biggest winner they had. In the ring, he was jet black .................. at home he was almost salt and pepper!!!!

I will get off my soapbox now!! LOL

 

[kirislin]

I completely agree, I couldn't see why I would have to pay a stud fee if he didn't perform. I also didn't think it fair to be offered another dog, unless the breeding & all other requirements were VERY similar, but even then one should just be given the option but still able to decline & not obliged to pay. I just wanted to see what others thought about it. Thanks

Linda

 

[June Jonigk]

Good luck in finding your dog a girlfriend

Thanks Vicky. We have promised him his own little girlie in a couple of years if one doesn't come to us - he liked that idea!!! :- "

I'd like to know whether the first breeders would have been within their rights to ask for a stud fee when the dog couldn't/wouldn't even try.What do you think?

Linda

(w00t) Unbelievable what some people get away with. It's hard to believe that sort of thing goes on. You wouldn't even discuss payment if the deed didn't happen.

As for the people who used their dog at stud when they knew he was firing blanks, and then sold him abroad - they need to get off abroad themselves! They obviously didn't think of the feelings of those who were left disappointed. It's so exciting waiting to see if the bitch is pregnant, and then to see the resulting little beauties - and to think that there was no chance in the first place - words fail me (actually they don't, but I can't put them on here!) o