Hypothetical Question

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On about pedigree dogs in general & breeding for money & there is health problems with them not on about whippets :clown:

 

[marielou]

I wasn't referring to pedigree whippets in particular but to pedigree dogs in general. There are some inherited disorders listed for whippets but in general I agree that pedigree whippets are healthy. However I stand by my original statement as it referred to pedigree dogs in general

You may find this link interesting reading

http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/intro.htm

 

[Nellie]

Oh I see you were talking show dogs in general in a non-ped whippet section

 

[wild whippies]

Hi Nellie,

Not sure if the evidence you was after was for pedigree KC registered whippets or the non-ped racing whippet?

If it's for the KC registered whippet then the link will give you all the relevant info http://whippet-health.co.uk/#/general-health/4543461293

Whilst there looks to be a very long list, one should bear in mind the average age of death was 12 years old and dogs just like people have to die of something eventually!

I personally feel the relevant ones are the Auto-Immune diseases and the endocrine diseases which I have to say seem to be on the increase in the pedigree KC whippet world. I find them alarming because they're not conditions neccesarily attributed to old age.

I've yet to hear of a non-ped suffering from an Auto-Immune disease.

Whilst a cardiac problem may be alarming to read of, I personally believe Mitral Valve Insufficiency isn't an anamoly and is advantagous to an athlete. Long winded explaining but it's a little similar to the phenomenon known as athletic heart syndrome.

However, I cannot rule out the possibility of a minor defect becoming a considerable one within a closed gene pool. What I'm saying is whilst I know of non-peds with diagnosed heart murmurs, they have suffered no adverse effects but this may not be the case within the KC pedigree whippet as the condition can be varied in it's severity. There is also the matter of inexperienced vets ''diagnosing'' a heart murmur by mistakenly hearing a noise which they perceive as a murmur which is actually an echo within the large chest cavity of the breed.

The Non-Ped Racing Whippet can have a condition known as mysotatin muscle related hypertrophy.

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:d...al.pgen.0030079

The phenomenon has also occured in humans where parents have been known athletes / body builders of a certain stature. (i.e. just like the dogs with mh/+ genotype, the humans have also possessed the mh/+ genotype)

The incidence of it occuring in a litter is extremely rare as it requires the pairing of 2 recessive genes and if you've read the link, you can see that those carrying the gene have a specific appearance (phenotype) so for this reason, it can be avoided to a certain degree.

Whether it's of considerable disability is unknown. Plos speculates that their life span may be decreased or they may be predisposed to heart failure due to a theory that the heart muscles may be effected. Research is nil on them (which Plos readily admits) but there are mice currently being researched who have been created with the same mutation and so far reports state their hearts are normal.

However, the bully whippets (as they are known) that I have encountered and enquired about all seem to have the same problem, cramping. All the owners I have talked to have said they've found ways of managing this through diet and /or over the counter supplements. It also seems to decrease with age (probably because of a natural decrease in muscle mass with age). We have a bully whippet through an accidental mating, hence my interest in it.

What is more relevant here over everything is that IF the non-ped suddenly developed a severe genetic defect, rectifying the problem would be quick and easy to do. The massive genetic diversity (through a wide range of phenotypes and greyhound blood) not only prevents disease but also enables a defect to be bred out extremely quickly.

Hope this was useful. :thumbsup:

 

[wild whippies]

I should also say that with regards to the poll, a number of people have responded who haven't read what the agenda was or were not associated with non-ped racing whippets.

I think it's clear to see though that money is not the priority when it comes to breeding non-ped racing whippets. :thumbsup:

 

[Nellie]

I have sold to a working home and a pet home as well as newcomer to racing homes, have to say though, never charged one person more than another regardless of what activity they choose to do with the pup.

It would probably help if I explained but didn't want to sway people's voting.

Basically I came out with the statement that us as racers would never be interested in the likes of KC registration because I felt the organisation has nothing to offer our breed whatsoever. A good response in return was that financial gain could be great from the sales of these registered dogs. Whilst the responder had a good argument,

** I personally feel it just isn't a priority to racers and that securing good racing homes, regardless of money is a breeder's main priority.**

Can anyone put forward a good reason or benefit for KC registration?

** WW you started this poll after I said it would only take someone who wanted to register the breed with the KC :thumbsup:

Imho the poll shows that not all non-ped breeders share your views

And by the way I have not voted in the poll

 

[Nellie]

Hi Nellie,Not sure if the evidence you was after was for pedigree KC registered whippets or the non-ped racing whippet?

If it's for the KC registered whippet then the link will give you all the relevant info http://whippet-health.co.uk/#/general-health/4543461293

Whilst there looks to be a very long list, one should bear in mind the average age of death was 12 years old and dogs just like people have to die of something eventually!

I personally feel the relevant ones are the Auto-Immune diseases and the endocrine diseases which I have to say seem to be on the increase in the pedigree KC whippet world. I find them alarming because they're not conditions neccesarily attributed to old age.

I've yet to hear of a non-ped suffering from an Auto-Immune disease.

Whilst a cardiac problem may be alarming to read of, I personally believe Mitral Valve Insufficiency isn't an anamoly and is advantagous to an athlete. Long winded explaining but it's a little similar to the phenomenon known as athletic heart syndrome.

However, I cannot rule out the possibility of a minor defect becoming a considerable one within a closed gene pool. What I'm saying is whilst I know of non-peds with diagnosed heart murmurs, they have suffered no adverse effects but this may not be the case within the KC pedigree whippet as the condition can be varied in it's severity. There is also the matter of inexperienced vets ''diagnosing'' a heart murmur by mistakenly hearing a noise which they perceive as a murmur which is actually an echo within the large chest cavity of the breed.

The Non-Ped Racing Whippet can have a condition known as mysotatin muscle related hypertrophy.

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:d...al.pgen.0030079

The phenomenon has also occured in humans where parents have been known athletes / body builders of a certain stature. (i.e. just like the dogs with mh/+ genotype, the humans have also possessed the mh/+ genotype)

The incidence of it occuring in a litter is extremely rare as it requires the pairing of 2 recessive genes and if you've read the link, you can see that those carrying the gene have a specific appearance (phenotype) so for this reason, it can be avoided to a certain degree.

Whether it's of considerable disability is unknown. Plos speculates that their life span may be decreased or they may be predisposed to heart failure due to a theory that the heart muscles may be effected. Research is nil on them (which Plos readily admits) but there are mice currently being researched who have been created with the same mutation and so far reports state their hearts are normal.

However, the bully whippets (as they are known) that I have encountered and enquired about all seem to have the same problem, cramping. All the owners I have talked to have said they've found ways of managing this through diet and /or over the counter supplements. It also seems to decrease with age (probably because of a natural decrease in muscle mass with age). We have a bully whippet through an accidental mating, hence my interest in it.

What is more relevant here over everything is that IF the non-ped suddenly developed a severe genetic defect, rectifying the problem would be quick and easy to do. The massive genetic diversity (through a wide range of phenotypes and greyhound blood) not only prevents disease but also enables a defect to be bred out extremely quickly.

Hope this was useful. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the links seems to be conflicting beliefs depending which site you read e.g. one says its most commonly found in yorkies, pugs and Llhaso apsos mainly toy breeds. I'll keep reading through them

 

[wild whippies]

The whippet health link I think has been based on the results of an audit that was carried out.

Kennel Club Report

Only 24% responses given though. From the info there are obvious commonalities that occur with any breed. For instance 50 incidences of cancer but this is a common disease within all dogs as is arthritis, strokes and so on. With a median age of 12 years, it's to be expected that these ailments are going to occur in any elderly dog.

Overall, I think the pedigree KC reg whippet is relatively sound (certainly so in comparison to some other KC reg dogs).

However, you can see from the findings, auto-immune disease is occuring at relatively young ages and if you frequent the other forums on here, particularly the general whippets section you'll see steroid responsive meningitis is becoming a frequent occurance.

Cryptorchidism is another common ''defect'' within KC reg peds. It is no stranger to non-peds either. Personally it is not something I consider to be a major defect, others will obviously have differing opinions.

Another mentioned is the cervical / lumbar neuro problems, something that is common in all sighthound breeds, probably due to length of back and also histiocytomas which are another occurance that populate sighthound breeds.

The biggest killer to young KC registered whippets appears to be trauma, due to the nature of the whippet (be it ped or non-ped) I would suspect this is the biggest killer of young non-peds as well.

 

[Nellie]

Somewhat interesting statistics in that KC link, in listing 30 causes of death the top 3 Old Age,Cardiac and Cancer add up to just over 50% of the total, I should imagine these will be top of nearly any breed not only specific to a whippet health issue problem :thumbsup: