Line Breeding

[kerrie.picolo@btinternet.com]

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as we are on the subject of breeding do you think we should have all our breeding stock d n a

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I have had my dogs' swabbed and DNA registered. But at present there is no genetic test available for any problem in Whippets here in Australia. The company does not plan to start any either, as to set up the test is expensive, so unless there is a problem widespread in the breed they will not do it.

Do you have tests available for Whippets in the UK?

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yes we do have tests in the uk all my dogs are swabbed and DNA registered before they can be bred from as i belong to the Accreditted breeder scheme

 

[dessie]

as we are on the subject of breeding do you think we should have all our breeding stock d n a

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I have had my dogs' swabbed and DNA registered. But at present there is no genetic test available for any problem in Whippets here in Australia. The company does not plan to start any either, as to set up the test is expensive, so unless there is a problem widespread in the breed they will not do it.

Do you have tests available for Whippets in the UK?

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yes we do have tests in the uk all my dogs are swabbed and DNA registered before they can be bred from as i belong to the Accreditted breeder scheme

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Swabbed and DNA tested for what?? There are no tests for hereditary problems in Whippets that the KC/BVA record

 

[kerrie.picolo@btinternet.com]

as we are on the subject of breeding do you think we should have all our breeding stock d n a

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I have had my dogs' swabbed and DNA registered. But at present there is no genetic test available for any problem in Whippets here in Australia. The company does not plan to start any either, as to set up the test is expensive, so unless there is a problem widespread in the breed they will not do it.

Do you have tests available for Whippets in the UK?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

yes we do have tests in the uk all my dogs are swabbed and DNA registered before they can be bred from as i belong to the Accreditted breeder scheme

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Swabbed and DNA tested for what?? There are no tests for hereditary problems in Whippets that the KC/BVA record

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the kennel club accredited breeder has to have all of their breeding stock profiled either by DNA OR MICROCHIPPING before you can breed from your bitch or put your dog out for stud

 

[Canteronboy]

What Dessie Is getting at is. The DNA is only a profile held on file the DNA is ot tested to say if your Dog/Bitch is a carrier of a known defective gene and therefore give you a blue print and some useful information to use in a breeding programm to reduce inherited faults

 

[Canteronboy]

talking about inbreeding and genetic diversity - when some breeders use the same dog on numerous bitches in the same quarter how do we expect the breed to improve on health issues

 

[~JO~]

I have a pedigree database with the ability to calculate COI over a varied number of generations. What is the accepted number of generations to use in this calculation ? and what would be an average and what would be Ideal COI if in breeding has already been used in a breeding program ?

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here in Finland it seems to be a spirit, that calculating coi is for nothing, unless you take in atleast 8 generations. Personally I prefer 10.

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Does anyone know how many generations for example the Swedish KC issue their percentage limits on? Or other countries.....

 

[rls22]

I think it's 10

 

[jayp]

I have done COI"s for lots and lots, it has taken weeks of work especially to try and fill in the holes, I think the ideal is 10 gens full but 8 gens full seems give an acceptable result. The hardest part is having the text file absolutely accurate as one spelling error means one dog becomes a different dog. Its something i will carry on working with as its facsinating stuff. !!!!!

 

[dessie]

What Dessie Is getting at is. The DNA is only a profile held on file the DNA is ot tested to say if your Dog/Bitch is a carrier of a known defective gene and therefore give you a blue print and some useful information to use in a breeding programm to reduce inherited faults

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Quite so. IMO (and a lot of others) the Accredited Breeder Scheme is just a load of money spinning (for the KC) tosh.

 

[Seraphina]

What Dessie Is getting at is. The DNA is only a profile held on file the DNA is ot tested to say if your Dog/Bitch is a carrier of a known defective gene and therefore give you a blue print and some useful information to use in a breeding programm to reduce inherited faults

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Quite so. IMO (and a lot of others) the Accredited Breeder Scheme is just a load of money spinning (for the KC) tosh.

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Cannot agree more Dessie. We were asked to have our dogs DNA profiled. The swab was taken in dog show. The collector did not even wipe his hands between handling different dogs! Even if he did not manage to cross contaminate the samples, this would only be useful for future paternity disputes. Although how swabbing bitches would help is anybody guess. :lol:

We had here quite recently (2 weeks ago) rather interesting scandal, when prosecutions of number of serious crime cases had to be abandoned because of DNA cross contamination. We are talking about rape/murder and DNA examined in the crime laboratory.

In any case most of the inherited diseases are impossible to DNA test for in this moment. We just do not know the genes that cause them.

Such as cardiomyopathy or autoimmune diseases, can be screened for but can only be detected when the problem becomes evident. The heart becomes abnormal or there is an abnormal level of cortisol in the blood for addisons.

Even with paternity testing, I would be very careful. There have been several cases when suspicious men had their own kids tested, only to be told they are not theirs. It broke up the families, only to find out later by consecutive tests that the first test was wrong.

Unfortunately, people will have their dogs swabbed and then will advertise their pups as from DNA tested parents. They are nothing of that sort.

Just like I have seen on USA Whippet website statement; ALL OUR DOGS ARE HD FREE. I asked about it on US forum, and was told 'no we do not have HD in Whippets, but it looks good to people who do not know that' :lol:

 

[bertha]

Having read this thread from start to finish, my poor old brain is totally scrambled!

In one way I am glad I am not breeding any more, life was much simpler when I first started, you looked for a dog that complemented your bitch, looked at the pedigree, if it tied up somewhere, you went ahead with the mating. If it didn't, you might have a go, or find another dog of similar type and pedigree.

My first litter, now I look back on the pedigrees, I am horrified at how inbred the puppies were. I took the advice of my bitches breeder and lost half the litter with cleft palates.

Since then I have been VERY careful with breeding, I have had two dogs out of 8 litters that were not entire, no bad mouths, good coats, good temperaments, similar type all through. So I think I have been very lucky in 36 years of breeding whippets!

 

[playawhile]

I have a pedigree database with the ability to calculate COI over a varied number of generations. What is the accepted number of generations to use in this calculation ? and what would be an average and what would be Ideal COI if in breeding has already been used in a breeding program ?

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here in Finland it seems to be a spirit, that calculating coi is for nothing, unless you take in atleast 8 generations. Personally I prefer 10.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Does anyone know how many generations for example the Swedish KC issue their percentage limits on? Or other countries.....

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5 generations.

Henrik

 

[clardia]

What Dessie Is getting at is. The DNA is only a profile held on file the DNA is ot tested to say if your Dog/Bitch is a carrier of a known defective gene and therefore give you a blue print and some useful information to use in a breeding programm to reduce inherited faults

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Quite so. IMO (and a lot of others) the Accredited Breeder Scheme is just a load of money spinning (for the KC) tosh.

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Who's measuring the Accredited Breeders - do they send a Qualified person out to inspect and prove the worth of the information fed to them by the applicants.

After all, it is not difficult to give information that the KC want to hear to get this qualification.

Also, as with any Licenced scheme - do they make regular inspections to ensure that standards have not dropped.

If neither of these happen, then I am with you on your thoughts, but more importantly feel it is something else to confuse the people less knowledgeable out there looking for a well reared healthy puppy.

I am sure that all you who breed occasionally to improve you show/working lines will have no problems selecting from people passed on to you by word of mouth, secretaries of clubs, etc.

 

[JAX]

What Dessie Is getting at is. The DNA is only a profile held on file the DNA is ot tested to say if your Dog/Bitch is a carrier of a known defective gene and therefore give you a blue print and some useful information to use in a breeding programm to reduce inherited faults

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Quite so. IMO (and a lot of others) the Accredited Breeder Scheme is just a load of money spinning (for the KC) tosh.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Who's measuring the Accredited Breeders - do they send a Qualified person out to inspect and prove the worth of the information fed to them by the applicants.

After all, it is not difficult to give information that the KC want to hear to get this qualification.

Also, as with any Licenced scheme - do they make regular inspections to ensure that standards have not dropped.

If neither of these happen, then I am with you on your thoughts, but more importantly feel it is something else to confuse the people less knowledgeable out there looking for a well reared healthy puppy.

I am sure that all you who breed occasionally to improve you show/working lines will have no problems selecting from people passed on to you by word of mouth, secretaries of clubs, etc.

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I very much doubt it :rant:

I know of at least 2 puppy farmers of whippets who certainly have never been visited by anyone from the KC :rant: :rant:

 

[JAX]

talking about inbreeding and genetic diversity - when some breeders use the same dog on numerous bitches in the same quarter how do we expect the breed to improve on health issues

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By saying this you seem to be implyng that the dog used on numerous bitches has some form of health issue , are you not.

Ive recently used a dog who ,I suppose ,one could say has been used on numerous bitches. .

One of the reasons I used him was was that he is a complete out cross to my bitch ,

Plus, he had breed type that I was after that I hoped would compliment my bitch, Plus passing on super quality whippets to WHATEVER line the bitches were , and not least of all ,super temperament .

 

[Sachiko]

talking about inbreeding and genetic diversity - when some breeders use the same dog on numerous bitches in the same quarter how do we expect the breed to improve on health issues

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By saying this you seem to be implyng that the dog used on numerous bitches has some form of health issue , are you not.

Ive recently used a dog who ,I suppose ,one could say has been used on numerous bitches. .

One of the reasons I used him was was that he is a complete out cross to my bitch ,

Plus, he had breed type that I was after that I hoped would compliment my bitch, Plus passing on super quality whippets to WHATEVER line the bitches were , and not least of all ,super temperament .

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I do not think it is about using one dog to more than one bitch.

I personally know a breeder who gets a dog from somewhere and studs all her bitches with this dog. After he has gone trough all she can with this male, she gets a new one! This goes on like an endless circle. Guess all her dogs are so perfect that they all fit together like a button to eye? Anyway, I know she is not the only one. Luckily everyone isn't doing the same, imagine what it could do to the gene variety!

 

[kerrie.picolo@btinternet.com]

talking about inbreeding and genetic diversity - when some breeders use the same dog on numerous bitches in the same quarter how do we expect the breed to improve on health issues

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

By saying this you seem to be implyng that the dog used on numerous bitches has some form of health issue , are you not.

Ive recently used a dog who ,I suppose ,one could say has been used on numerous bitches. .

One of the reasons I used him was was that he is a complete out cross to my bitch ,

Plus, he had breed type that I was after that I hoped would compliment my bitch, Plus passing on super quality whippets to WHATEVER line the bitches were , a

not least of all ,super temperament .

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should we endorse our puppies

I do not think it is about using one dog to more than one bitch.

I personally know a breeder who gets a dog from somewhere and studs all her bitches with this dog. After he has gone trough all she can with this male, she gets a new one! This goes on like an endless circle. Guess all her dogs are so perfect that they all fit together like a button to eye? Anyway, I know she is not the only one. Luckily everyone isn't doing the same, imagine what it could do to the gene variety!

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[kerrie.picolo@btinternet.com]

should we endorse all of our puppies

 

[bertha]

should we endorse all of our puppies

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You can, but it won't stop people breeding to sell without papers, or they use false ones. All KC registrations are taken on trust, the KC hope people will be honest when registering their puppies. I know for a fact that somebody who used to breed near where I live mated father to daughter, son to mother, sisters and brothers. None of the pedigrees were correct, but how can you prove it without dna testing. The breeder in question thankfully has gone out of whippets, his dogs were so muddled up I doubt if prospective owners got the whippet they wanted!

Sad but true, how can we stop it? :- "

 

[clardia]

should we endorse all of our puppies

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You can, but it won't stop people breeding to sell without papers, or they use false ones. All KC registrations are taken on trust, the KC hope people will be honest when registering their puppies. I know for a fact that somebody who used to breed near where I live mated father to daughter, son to mother, sisters and brothers. None of the pedigrees were correct, but how can you prove it without dna testing. The breeder in question thankfully has gone out of whippets, his dogs were so muddled up I doubt if prospective owners got the whippet they wanted!

Sad but true, how can we stop it? :- "

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probably another kennel club aproved breeder in ther time