Litter Size

[stephen mason]

Join our free community today.

Connect with other like-minded dog lovers!

Login or Register

We only breed a litter once every 2 years and only to extend our own family which goes back 4 generations. In the last 4 years we have had a litter of 5 and a litter of 1. Six years ago we had a litter of 9 and have just heard of a litter of 13. What is the optimum litter size? Is 6 reasonable? Should litters in excess of 6 be culled? It would seem to me that a litter of 13 is not conducive to producing healthy pups and submits the dam to excessive stress. I certainly do not like the idea of culling but such a policy may be for the good of the breed. Looking forward to reading the experts`opinions. Regards, Stephen

 

[Paula Roberts]

I am certainly no expert but to kill something just because there are to many is just barbaric IMO, a bloke who used our stud dog got ten healthy puppies and although he was shocked at so many never once thought of killing any of them the bitch did an excellent job in rearing all ten puppies there werent any runts they were all fat little bundles thje mother was in perfect condition IMO let nature take its course if they are meant to live they will if not let them go naturally.

 

[dawn]

We only breed a litter once every 2 years and only to extend our own family which goes back 4 generations. In the last 4 years we have had  a litter of 5 and a litter of 1. Six years ago we had a litter of 9 and have just heard of a litter of 13. What is the optimum litter size? Is 6 reasonable? Should litters in excess of 6 be culled? It would seem to me that a litter of 13 is not conducive to producing healthy pups and submits the dam to excessive stress. I certainly do not like the idea of culling but such a policy may be for the good of the breed. Looking forward to reading the experts`opinions. Regards, Stephen

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Don't know about expert opinion but have been around for a few years now - not as many as Dolly & Jack though Stephen :cheers: . I have not heard of any whippet litters being culled as the 'usual' size seems to be 5 - 7 dogs. I know white Boxers are often culled but how would you select which whippet as you cannot go on colour / markings etc and there is not much else to go on at birth. Cleft palettes etc where there is an obvious defect that would impact on the feasibility of sustained life is a different matter.

I would not be surprised if there are breeders, not necesarrily whippets, who would cull their litters if they thought the pups were not of good enough quaility for example a mating which was not planned e.g. a cross-breed mating

An interesting question you have posed here Stephen

 

[lalena]

there are only a couple of reasons to cull a litter, and size isnt one of them

first and foremost is health : deformed pups. it may sound horrid, but with all the healthy dogs being born, its a waste of time nurturing a defective one which may need to be pts when its older anyway.

secondly a misalliance : should your bitch be covered by an unsuitable dog, for example a close relative, or an unknown dog. again, it may sound cruel, but if your bitch has wandered, as some do while in season, and gotten pregnant without your knowledge,and its too late for the jab when you realise, culling can be the only option. you see this cute litter, and think yes, i'll keep them. BUT you dont know their breeding. their sire could be extremely badly bred, either physically or mentally unsound. i believe in nurture over nature in character for the most part, but if daddy is a complete psycho, all it takes is one bad epiode to bring all the genetic pitfalls to the fore.another point is how many mongrels end up in rescue? in these circumstances, my vet has said, better to not risk, cull most of the litter, leaving one or two to nurse, then there are only a couple to find homes for.

it sounds evil, but i'd rather that than raising the litter, loving them with all my heart, finding them homes and then one of them being pts for health reasons, or worse, for having mauled a child this is why people have to be responsible. if you have no intention of breeding, your animals should be nutered once mature enough. if you are going to breed, make sure you keep your animals secure. prevention is better than cure, any day.

 

[Pennymeadow Whippets]

The average litter is 5/7 a bitch that has been well fed &looked after through out pregnancy will be more than able to rear a larger litter & if she did start to struggle a propper breeder would know when to step in & help the bitch out the culling of healthy puppies is wrong only weak sickly or deformed puppies should be culled & only when all other options have been tried (IMO)

 

[masta]

Intresting when a question was asked recently with regard to having a bitch spayed before her first season all hell broke loose yet we are now discussing killing sorry "culling" puppies quite rationally.

i was raised and worked with stock for many years and i have never culled any thing without having a valid reason ie deformed etc never because there were too many or colour or confirmation

 

[lalena]

believe me, i hate the very thought of it as i dont want to do it, i do the utmost in protecting my bitch. but sadly, not everyone thinks of these things... the picture in the sun of that cocker spaniel with the 22lb weight attached to her lead made me throw up. then you have unethical people. someone in my breed has a 'bad' stud. he's very prone to throwing cleft pups, but didnt tell people using him until they'd mated. a friend of a friend ended up with a litter of 7 that were all affected. thankfully, he's now out of circulation, but out of the 6 litters he sired, each had at least one that needed culling.

for simple colour 'defects', or a kinked tail for example, i would never condone culling. for serious health issues, yes, i would.

 

[nina]

I for one HATE it when this subject rears its ugly head.

All other reasons aside i.e deformities, cleft palates etc (any reason whereby a pup stands no chance of living a happy healthy life) why bother for gods sake breeding & bringing into the world a litter of puppies (who i might add dont ask to be born) to end up killing a percentage of them because you deem the litter too big or mis marked?

As a Breeder YOU take responsibility for planning a litter, YOU take responsibility for doing the mating, the poor bitch has no choice in the matter, its YOUR choice. The pups are born thru no choice of their own, so it is then YOUR responsibility to do YOUR best by them. Rear them, nurture them & find them the best possible homes.

If you are NOT prepared to do this, worry that if its a larger litter you will not be able to find homes & have neither the resources or room to keep them, then the answer is clear DO NOT BREED.

I am not talking about mis-matings or bitches getting out whilst in season etc BUT planned matings. Unfortunately none of us can foresee the out come of things & when you do a mating it is in the lap of the gods how many pups will arrive, if all will go well, if mum will be ok BUT it is OUR responsibility to then do our best by both mum & pups to ensure all goes as smoothly as possible & help out if we feel the situation calls for it.

Wonder how it would sit in us humans if those along the years who have suddenly be surprised to find out they were having twins said "well i wasn't planning on having 2 but no problem, i'll ask the doctor's at the birth to kill one as i know i'll cope much better with just the one"!!

There have been quite a few whippet litters of late of 10 pups & all pups have done well & mums alike.

My answer to anyone on this subject is, think carefully before you breed there is always a chance that ANY bitch can surprise you & produce a large litter, so if you feel you can not cope with this THINK AGAIN but please dont take the lives of innocent pups that have fought so hard to enter this world through YOUR choice.

Nina

 

[Seraphina]

I could never cull a HEALTHY pup, the only time I ever culled were pups with deformities which would prevent them from leading normal life (spina bifida, cleft palate). I decided to have a litter, so it is my responsibility to rear them regardless of what they look like and place them in loving homes.

I once had a litter of 15 Great Danes, and yes it took quite a lot out of the bitch, it took a lot out of me; I did divide them into 3 lots, and for the first week or so, rotate them every 1/2 hour, with half an hour giving the bitch a break and me the chance to clean the whelping box. Then I started to suplement feeding several times a day. I reared the whole lot and the bitch was back in shape in no time at all.

And it took a long time to find homes for all of them, I had half of them till they were 3 months and couple until they were 5 months old. So it was expensive and time consuming, but that was not their fault. I did my best by every one of them, as I do with all my litters.

If people cull because they just do not want so many, I do not believe they really care about dogs.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Well said Seraphina and congratulations on rearing the litter.

 

[nina]

I could never cull a HEALTHY pup, the only time I ever culled were pups with deformities which would prevent them from leading normal life (spina bifida, cleft palate). I decided to have a litter, so it is my responsibility to rear them regardless of what they look like and place them in loving homes.

I once had a litter of 15 Great Danes, and yes it took quite a lot out of the bitch, it took a lot out of me; I did divide them into 3 lots, and for the first week or so, rotate them every 1/2 hour, with half an hour giving the bitch a break and me the chance to clean the whelping box. Then I started to suplement feeding several times a day. I reared the whole lot and the bitch was back in shape in no time at all.

And it took a long time to find homes for all of them, I had half of them till they were 3 months and couple until they were 5 months old. So it was expensive and time consuming, but that was not their fault. I did my best by every one of them, as I do with all my litters.

If people cull because they just do not want so many, I do not believe they really care about dogs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Wow, beautiful litter, you must have worked damn hard, good for you!

I agree with everything you say & from this picture it just goes to show with hard work & dedication it can be done :thumbsup:

Nina

 

[digzoils]

IMO The only reason to kill anything is if you are going to eat it . With the exeption of rodent vermin which poses a real risk to human health.

Paul

 

[Janimal]

I could never cull a HEALTHY pup, the only time I ever culled were pups with deformities which would prevent them from leading normal life (spina bifida, cleft palate).  I decided to have a litter, so it is my responsibility to rear them regardless of what they look like and place them in loving homes.  I once had a litter of 15 Great Danes, and yes it took quite a lot out of the bitch, it took a lot out of me; I did divide them into 3 lots, and for the first week or so, rotate them every 1/2 hour, with half an hour giving the bitch a break and me the chance to clean the whelping box.  Then I started to  suplement feeding several times a day.  I reared the whole lot and the bitch was back in shape in no time at all.

And it took a long time to find homes for all of them, I had half of them till they were 3 months and couple until they were 5 months old.  So it was expensive and time consuming, but that was not their fault.  I did my best by every one of them, as I do with all my litters.

If people cull because they just do not want so many, I do not believe they really care about dogs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Wow Lida - what a Fantastic litter of Danes - and Well done to you :cheers:

Im not a breeder .....but couldnt even think about culling unless it was for serious medical reasons.

Could you not hand rear weaker ones?

 

[~Helen~]

Very interesting topic. Morally, my gut reaction is that culling would be wrong. From an actual medical standpoint, though - would any attempt to reduce the numbers in a litter not pose a serious risk to the others, and perhaps result in the loss of the complete litter?

Would there also be a risk of premature labour if sepsis occurred from a bitch carrying one or more dead/culled canine foetuses?

Or perhaps they are reabsorbed?

Thought-provoking thread.

 

[lalena]

culling is not like selective abortion, as with people who've become pregnant with 5 or more babies through ivf. as far as i know, dont quote me, you cannot abort canine pregnancy past a certain stage. once its progressed, the vet can, however, perform a complete hysterectomy, thereby terminating the litter, but your bitch can never be bred from thereafter. if you plan to breed from your bitch and an unexpected/unwanted mating occurs, the options are a jab within a few hours, or carrying the litter to full term and selectively culling, ie removing several of the pups and, to put it bluntly, killing them, shortly after birth.

i cannot for the life of me understand people who would do something so wicked for cosmetic reasons or because their bitch 'inconvenienced' them by having a large litter. with the availability of puppy formula and bottles, culling in that situation is pure laziness on the part of the owner. some would say that they dont have the money to rear a large litter, if so, they shouldnt have even considered breeding in the first place. from conception until the last puppy is rehomed, raising a litter costs a lot of money, takes up all your time, and can potentially break your heart. not something anyone should consider without checking all the facts beforehand.

saying that, though, i loved every minute of rearing my litter :b

 

[kerry0378]

I intend to be a whippet breeder and have a lovely bitch and a gorgeous dog. The idea of culling a litter is one i have never heard of before and throughout my teens i used to spend a lot of time at my friends house whose mother was a golden retriever and alsation breeder and the only time i know of that one of those put to sleep was an alsation with a cleft palate that couldnt even drink. My old whippet came from a litter of 11 pups and i saw the whole litter, all pups, mum and dad were the picture of health.

Even the idea of culling the pups should my bitch stray and be lined by an unknown male is not for me. After all most mongrels are perfectly loving dogs and it would be up to me to find a good home for them just like it is with a pedigree and even pedigrees get tossed aside. If not for accidents where would loving dogs like lurchers be, every breed started as a mongrel

 

[Rosie]

I know nothing of breeding dogs but am a pet owner of a beautiful, intellegent, affectionate whippet bitch who was from a litter of 9 - the very idea that a breeder out there somewhere would consider killing her because her family was too large is sick. The only reason for killing (lets be honest here culling is just a euphemism) is if medically the puppies or bitch were in serious trouble.

 

[Strike Whippets]

I know nothing of breeding dogs but am a pet owner of a beautiful, intellegent, affectionate whippet bitch who was from a litter of 9 - the very idea that a breeder out there somewhere would consider killing her because her family was too large is sick.  The only reason for killing (lets be honest here culling is just a euphemism) is if medically the puppies or bitch were in serious trouble.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Well said :thumbsup: ......Your girl's mum had no problem's in rearing the litter (and 9 being her first litter and all) .......There's no need for culling unless the pup has a huge problem .....IMHO .....

 

[JAX]

I agree 100% with Nina .

 

[nina]

I agree 100% with Nina .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Thanks for that Jax, in my mind we bring them in to the world & they are our responsibilty.

I would never want any pup to suffer if it had a type of deformity that would prevent it leading a normal healthy happy life.

BUT in a not perfect world things dont always go to plan, with the healthiest of bitches & pups sometimes we need to step in & help.

I had one bitch, fit & strong first ever litter produced 5 ( which in an IG is considered a fairly large litter!) Everthing went to plan till pups were 5 days old & the bitch went down with Eclampsia. Rushed to the vet, treated, kept off the pups for 24 hours, returned as advised & went straight back down with eclampsia.

Vets advice, cull 3 of the litter & try the bitch with just 2.

NO WAY!!! Mum was then put on strict rest, i took a month off work. hand rearing every hour to begin with, all 5 survived (3 Ch's, 2 RCC's winners) mum was fine, i was knackered BUT happy, i bought them into the world & there was no way i was gonna take the easy way out. ( Mum was NEVER bred from again!)

I've had 2 tinies in different litters just 3oz, vets advised " runt of litter", kindest thing pts "

B******s", hand reared both became Ch's & more importantly lived a happy healthy life.

Moral of the story.............................................if you are prepared to breed be prepared for whatever the outcome, no good whinging afterwards " but i didnt expect such a large litter, or i didnt think this would happen"

You bring them into the world, up to you to do your best by them. This is just my humble opinion.

Nina