Lurcher Beaten To Death

[*Lesley*]

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This is 2005 for god's sake, if people expect a dog to think the same way as it's owner then they shouldn't have one,so why then would anyone shoot a dog because it didn't do as they asked, my dogs for one would take food from anybody no matter how much I fed them I don't believe for a minute that this would be out of disrespect for me, I cannot believe that there is even a debate about this, this animal suffered apauling cruelty and the people who did this should be strung up, end of :rant:

 

[Debra]

Yep they drove past. However the police have been known to refuse to go on the sites in this area. I know a lurcherman whose lurcher was stolen by travellers and who traced it to Almondsbury and the police wouldn't help them.

The Bristol area seems to have more than it's fair share of travellers who thieve dogs and who do this sort of thing. Remember the whippet x who was found dead hanging in a tree at Winterbourne that's not very far from there.

Hi Guys,

I used to live a couple of miles away from Almondsbury and i can't belive that this is what is happening there. The B**tards :rant: :rant: need to take responsiblities for their action and be brought to justice for the cowardly things they are doing to animals.

I am shocked and saddened that these areas seem to be no go areas for the police. Maybe all of the police should be armed(if they aren't already,ive been gone 15 years), and a no tolerence policy should be taken with the travellers in question. I'm sorry, but are animal's lives now so worthless that these sick people can get away time after time with this callous behavour.

I will get off the soap box now,

a very sad Debra

 

[BeeJay]

Crossposted from another list. Re this same travellers camp latest news.

>50 police officers raided that camp at dawn and have arrested five travellers and apparently recovered £75,000 worth of stolen goods, including six mobile homes, two trailers and a quad bike!!

Unfortunately, no mention of having discovered who killed the lurcher - or any stolen or mistreated dogs

 

[BeeJay]

>I think we should go easy on Innis because he was only trying to explain what he saw as the reasoning or mindset of the perpetrators - at no point did he say he condoned their actions or agreed with them!

If someone is prepared to find a reason for this kind of thing happening then that is condoning it.

There is NO justifiable reason for this kind of thing to happen. It's simply wrong.

I don't give a stuff if it's down to their culture, or the fact that they keep working dogs not pets, or the fact that they don't think like us pet owners. IT'S WRONG! :rant: That's the [SIZE=14pt]ONLY[/SIZE] point.

They could have killed the dog another way they didn't chose that way because they wanted to. That is the ONLY explaination for what they did.

 

[BeeJay]

Just for the record.

I come from a combination of farming stock and dirt rural poor.

My family has kept dogs that work for their food and their masters for generations.

The farming side of the family have in the past shot their dogs if they weren't any use.

The dirt rural poor however kept lurchers. They didn't get rid of them when they weren't any use anymore. The dogs were prized because they had really fed the family and kept them from starving. They only kept one most of the time and when the old dog couldn't work anymore then it was retired and a younger one brought in. That's the kind of lurcher background I come from.

It's been said that I'm emotional about this matter. Well your damn right I'm emotional about it. I don't believe that any animal no matter what it's done deserves this kind treatment.

 

[ILoveKettleChips]

>I think we should go easy on Innis because he was only trying to explain what he saw as the reasoning or mindset of the perpetrators - at no point did he say he condoned their actions or agreed with them!
If someone is prepared to find a reason for this kind of thing happening then that is condoning it. 

There is NO justifiable reason for this kind of thing to happen.  It's simply wrong.

I don't give a stuff if it's down to their culture, or the fact that they keep working dogs not pets, or the fact that they don't think like us pet owners.  IT'S WRONG! :rant:   That's the [SIZE=14pt]ONLY[/SIZE] point.

They could have killed the dog another way they didn't chose that way because they wanted to.   That is the ONLY explaination for what they did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I stand by my defence of Innis. I understand what was meant in their post and I realise that there was no defence of the actions involved. If that makes me as bad as the reprobates which carried out the attack on the dog, then you are welcome to that opinion. But at no point have Innis or I stated that what they did was right. In fact, I think it's disgusting and terrifying that people who can do these things are walking our streets.

I do think it is important to remember that people do the things they do for a reason, and surely a better longterm solution would be to work with these communities to develop a fairer and more positive attitude towards their animals? I personally would rather prevent animal cruelty in the first place than punish people for it afterwards. And let's face it - punishment isn't going to happen - our police system doesn't seem to be making much headway, and I can't see that changing.

Just my opinion, but it would seem more constructive than just standing around and ranting about things.

 

[Tesa]

surely a better longterm solution would be to work with these communities to develop a fairer and more positive attitude towards their animals?
I personally would rather prevent animal cruelty in the first place

Just my opinion, but it would seem more constructive than just standing around and ranting about things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

This is the most dreadful thread, knew I shouldn't have looked at it.

ILKC you may like to know her in Oz we are running the most wonderful television commercial, with a well known boxer (fighter not dog). He's a bit on the rough side and he is holding a kitten. He just sits on a stool talking about how wrong cruelty is and how uncool it is. He finishes by saying how much he loves cats and would never hurt one. Definitley aimed at teenage boys. Here hoping this ad makes some sort of a difference, as we have had some shocking cruelty cases to cats in recent years

 

[*Lesley*]

Crossposted from another list.  Re this same travellers camp latest news.
>50 police officers raided that camp at dawn and have arrested five travellers and apparently recovered £75,000 worth of stolen goods, including six mobile homes, two trailers and a quad bike!!

Unfortunately, no mention of having discovered who killed the lurcher - or any stolen or mistreated dogs

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I rest my case theives and wasters :angry:

 

[Lydia]

>I think we should go easy on Innis because he was only trying to explain what he saw as the reasoning or mindset of the perpetrators - at no point did he say he condoned their actions or agreed with them!
If someone is prepared to find a reason for this kind of thing happening then that is condoning it. 

There is NO justifiable reason for this kind of thing to happen.  It's simply wrong.

I don't give a stuff if it's down to their culture, or the fact that they keep working dogs not pets, or the fact that they don't think like us pet owners.  IT'S WRONG! :rant:   That's the [SIZE=14pt]ONLY[/SIZE] point.

They could have killed the dog another way they didn't chose that way because they wanted to.   That is the ONLY explaination for what they did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I stand by my defence of Innis. I understand what was meant in their post and I realise that there was no defence of the actions involved. If that makes me as bad as the reprobates which carried out the attack on the dog, then you are welcome to that opinion. But at no point have Innis or I stated that what they did was right. In fact, I think it's disgusting and terrifying that people who can do these things are walking our streets.

I do think it is important to remember that people do the things they do for a reason, and surely a better longterm solution would be to work with these communities to develop a fairer and more positive attitude towards their animals? I personally would rather prevent animal cruelty in the first place than punish people for it afterwards. And let's face it - punishment isn't going to happen - our police system doesn't seem to be making much headway, and I can't see that changing.

Just my opinion, but it would seem more constructive than just standing around and ranting about things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

By publicly defending the travellers lifestyle and culture,reasons for publicly executioning a dog,Innis never once condemned this in their first post.Innis comes accross as finding this act perfectly acceptable.

Bleating on that we should try to understand their culture and upbringing sends a very strong message that is hard not to understand.

If the ppl responsible for this barbaric act,had humanely destroyed the dog,and there are plenty of more humane ways available,with out resorting to lethal injection as well,the majority of ppl would not be so shocked,saddened and dismayed by this act.

As soon as ppl posted disgust at this act,Innis defends their way of life therefore defending this act.

ILKC then leaps in to defend Innis,if you fail to see what the majority of ppl posting on this subject find so objectionable with Innis's reply,I'm afraid I can see no way to try and help you understand.

Lyd

 

[ILoveKettleChips]

Lydia - I have said (need I repeat myself?) that the actions of these people are unacceptable.

I have said that things need to change.

Do you think the way these events are handled and dealt with is adequate? I have said that I do not think the way they are dealt with is good enough.

I seem to be the only person here who would rather see something done to stop it happening again - turning into a snarling cyber-lynch mob will not undo the suffering caused to the poor beast. I just feel that some constructive dialogue about realistic ways to change how these animals are used and abused would be more useful than just typing 'I agree, they're bad people'.

Lynch mobs change nothing. Sorry for not jumping on your bandwagon, but I'd rather start my own.

 

[Lydia]

If you bothered to read what I posted,I've never said that you found this act acceptable,but you leap in to defend Innis,who clearly stated in black and white that travellers do not do this in their experience,and to understand their reasoning for possibly doing it.Therefore condoning it.

Lyd

 

[ILoveKettleChips]

stated in black and white that travellers do not do this in their experience,and to understand their reasoning for possibly doing it.Therefore condoning it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I'm sorry but I honestly don't understand your last post. It doesn't make sense.

Nobody wants to discuss possible solutions to what appears to be a growing problem?

 

[Lydia]

What bit do you not understand.

 

[ILoveKettleChips]

stated in black and white that travellers do not do this in their experience,and to understand their reasoning for possibly doing it.

From this I read that "in Innis' experience travellers do not beat dogs" which is fair enough if that is her experience. I don't understand what "understand their reasoning for possibly doing it" means - are you criticising her outright for having an understanding of some of these people (not necessarily those mentioned in the article under discussion)?

 

[Lydia]

leap in to defend Innis,who clearly stated in black and white that travellers do not do this in their experience,and to understand their reasoning for possibly doing it

The 'their' in the first part of my sentence is refering to Innis,the 'their' in the second part of my sentence (after the comma) is refering to the travellers responsible.I've tried to think of a simpler way to explain this to you,but I can't,so I'm giving up.

 

[Debra]

I seem to be the only person here who would rather see something done to stop it happening again - turning into a snarling cyber-lynch mob will not undo the suffering caused to the poor beast. I just feel that some constructive dialogue about realistic ways to change how these animals are used and abused would be more useful than just typing 'I agree, they're bad people'.

Well, this is the time i really get my head bitten off.

I for one am not turning into one part of the snarling cyber-lynch mob(don't think anyone else is too), i think that we are all to blame as a society. We have let these sort of problems get out of control for far too long. There is no quick fix solutions but if nothing is done time after time, then the problems we keep hearing about will keep getting worse.

I could keep going on and on but it is 2.20am on Sunday morning and i need my sleep. This is an open forum and discussion is welcome at the end of the day we all have the same goals. We love our animals and we don't want them to come to any harm.

Night Night for now

Debra.

 

[Strike Whippets]

But you must understand that travellers regard their dogs not as pets, but as working animals (so do farmers;and if my working dog runs away to stay with someone else I'd shoot it just as quickly, by the way...) and hence every dog that is not worth his food...well, merciless, but just a different way of looking at it. And the one that got beaten to death has certainly done something so terrible that it "deserved" this kind of horrific punishment

Well I don't know which travelling circle's you move in but I can assure you that the "proper" Traveller's certainly wouldn't contemplate torturing a dog to death WHATEVER it did, it would of been shot, sold or had it's neck broken (a quick death not calculated) but these people on this site are not the real traveller's they are just lay about scum who give Gypsie's a bad name :rant: .......

As for you saying you'd shoot one of your own working dog's for running away to stay with someone else ......Well how short sighted and immoral is that ?? (BTW befor you say anything ALOT of us on this site let our dog's work, but we spend the time understanding our dog's and training them just so we don't have to shoot them if they run away :- " ).....If you look at the farmer's and Gypsie's they have alot of the most knowledgable animal trainer's out there as they NEED their dog's (or horse's) and know how to get the most out of their animal......When the dog or horse has retired after it's loyalty I think you'll find that it will live out is life at the farm or site comfortably as a way of returning the favoure for all of it's hard work :thumbsup: but then hey you'd know that wouldn't you :- "

 

[~elizabeth~]

I seem to be the only person here who would rather see something done to stop it happening again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

We'd all like to do that. But until you can persuade these men that betting large amounts of money on illegal coursing matches, losing it all and then taking their anger at out on the dog (I imagine this is nearer the truth of what happened) is a stupid way to pass their time it will probably continue.

 

[ILoveKettleChips]

until you can persuade these men that betting large amounts of money on illegal coursing matches, losing it all and then taking their anger at out on the dog (I imagine this is nearer the truth of what happened) is a stupid way to pass their time it will probably continue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

You're probably bang on there, sadly. Back round to the policing question though - how do we get the police to get involved in things they don't want to get involved in? Until every single person who drives past and witnesses something like this makes a call to report it, to FORCE the police to take notice, these people know they will get away with doing as they please.

 

[Cerito]

I have seen this news report today.

Western Daily Press 2.4.05

BEATEN DOG STORY WAS UNBALANCED

10:32 - 02 April 2005

Sir - I've just read the article about the dog apparently beaten to death on a travellers site in Over Lane. I found your article to be very unbalanced and bordering on racism. There is no doubt that the dog was brutally killed, but the circumstances behind the incident are that the dog was pulled off a baby boy who it was savaging.

The boy was rushed to Southmead Hospital who transferred him to the BRI by emergency ambulance. The mother of the child was interviewed by the police at the hospital. Doctors stated that the baby escaped death by a whisker. The baby has now been discharged from hospital with 42 stitches in his neck.

The problem was that word had got back that the baby boy had died, so some of the younger traveller males decided to deal out rough justice. Most of the site residents disagreed with that action, saying that the RSPCA should take the dog away. But as you know they have a mistrust of authority.

Can I ask why you did not include the full balanced story?