Multi Purpose Whippet

[aslan]

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Thanks for that Liz, it's nice to read about past lines and their achievements

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There are two very good little books if you can get hold of them, written by Joanna Russell, called "Coloured Bloodlines" and "Sporting Bloodlines". These books both mention a number of dogs who competed and succeeded in more than one field. They may not necessarily have been champions in more than one but they could hold their own.

eg Chancerick Koh-I-Noor's dam, "Chancerick Nimrodel Rosefinch, bred by Mrs Lowe and litter sister to Ch Nimrodel Ruff, acquitted herself with distinction in the show ring, on the track and the field."

"Tweseldown Royal Chortle, who has a challenge certificate in the show ring, ran into the final of her first coursing stake in 1983"

"Tweseldown Woodlark owned by Miss Susan Baird ... was a consistently good bitch. In the 1972/73 season she ran into the final of two out os t he four stakes for which she was entered. A number of meetings were abandoned that year. In the 73/74 season she won the Whippet Coursing club's Damask Stake and was withdrawn injured from the final of the Wooley Club's President's Cup and the East of England's Spayne Stakes. In 1977 she won two veteran stakes and in 1979 divided the East of England's Senior Veteran Trophy. She also qualified for Crufts in 1971, 72, 73 and 76."

(pg 14 Sporting Bloodlines)

 

[Seraphina]

The words in my standard are "Chest very deep with plenty of heart room, brisket deep, well defined."
The interpretation of "very deep" I think has changed over the years in the show ring.  Many of the racing whippets I've seen do not have a chest that reaches the elbow in fact many have a chest that finishes well above it - and this is what we have come to know in show circles as a 'shallow' chest.  I think originally when the standard was written this "shallow" chest was actually considered as "deep".

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Yes, you are right it does not say that but it also does not say CHEST MUST REACH TO THE ELBOWS or BELOW.

Also I do not believe that sighthounds suppose to have the angulation in your picture. How many Whippets you know do have fronts like this? This 45degrees angle of shoulder blade to the ground, and 90degree between shoulder blade and upper arm is the correct angulation for the archetypal dog, but it is not correct for a running dog. As their chest has been bred deeper the angle of shoulders needs to be stretched.

I have seen some dogs with the 45/90degrees angles with chest just to the elbows, at first i could not work out why their underline looks as they have no tuck up. Then I realised their chest is so SHALLOW that their tummy is not much higher.

Lida

 

[Max&Smokey]

I thought you could get a whippet who could course and race and excel in both (madishan moonlake), but not show and race as the racing whippet was bred to be light weight due to the handicap system for racing. Ive been looking at pictures of show champions against madishan moonlake and the one thing that sticks out is the lack of weight on the coursing champion and I can see from a purley attractive point of view that less rib on show does look nicer. However one of the reasons I liked the whippet as a breed was that the breed standard (my view) was meant to show an animal that would be a good healthy working animal therefore people wouldnt breed in characteristics that would be detrimental to the dogs ability to hunt and from what Ive read in this thread I think its a shame if judges are rewarding the breeding of (from Seraphina's reply) say chests past the elbow. So in conclusion I think you can breed a dog who will perform well in all fields but to be the very best you have to specialise by breeding the characteristics required by the field you want your dog to excel in.

 

[aslan]

Yes, you are right it does not say that but it also does not say CHEST MUST REACH TO THE ELBOWS or BELOW.
That was my point!  Yet most showies seem to think it must reach to the elbow.  Have a look at show bred whippets - most of their chests DO reach the elbow, and if they don't people say they have a shallow chest!

Have a look at many of the racers and you will see that their chests fall just above the elbow which is in keeping with what Macdowell Lyon says about why it is that way.

Also I do not believe that sighthounds suppose to have the angulation in your picture.  How many Whippets you know do have fronts like this? 

As I said, have a look at some pics of racers past or present.

This 45degrees angle of shoulder blade to the ground, and 90degree between shoulder blade and upper arm is the correct angulation for the archetypal dog, but it is not correct for a running dog.

If you will note, he says that in the racing front the upper arm is much longer than the archetypal dog with these angles, which often extends the elbow below the brisket line.

As their chest has been bred deeper the angle of shoulders needs to be stretched.

My apologies Lida but I think you're wrong.  If the angle of the shoulder blade to upper arm was opened up (ie a straighter angle) and the length of bones was the same, the chest would be shallower than the elbow not deeper.

I would venture to say that in many of our show dogs the upper arm is not as long as perhaps it should be and therefore our chests appear to be deeper.

As far as I can tell the angles and lengths of the bones in the front determine how deep the chest appears, not the other way around.

Sorry to disagree with you but I am trying to do it politely in the spirit of good debate.

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[Seraphina]

Lana, I really have to stop posting on the run and while talking on the phone :b

It looks we keep misunderstanding each other. What I mean is; the chest will look deep if the dog has 90degree between shoulder blade and upper arm, while a dog with the same depth of chest but legs stretched so the shoulder blade/upper arm angle is more open, the chest will not reach to the elbow and therefore will look "shallow". Of-course, if the second dog also has longer upper arm it will accentuate the perceived lack of chest. If however dog has more acute shoulder angle, even shallow chest looks OK, but this dog is not going to have nice S-bend underneath.

Sorry, cannot read the small fuzzy print next to the pic you posted.

Back to the subject; I wonder if part of the reason why there are no Multi purpose Champions may be that it would be just too much hard work for one person to prepare a dog for the 3 different competition and some; like racing and showing cannot be done simultaneously, as dog in perfect racing condition could not compete in the ring and vice versa. I do not know about lure coursing.

I have a friend in Europe who breeds both show dogs and racing Whippets, and occasionally crosses these two lines. Many of her racing dogs are also shown and some gained their Championship title. But she told me that she has to stop training for races for at least 3 months before she can start showing.

Lida

 

[Seraphina]

I am really making a mess of this, somehow I managed to skip the post where Lana said almost exactly the same thing I posted above re- preparing dogs for 3 different events. At least we agree on that one

Lida